property search

[starbuck]

Just got back from a trip to view some property in Brittany, as we dont really understand the local property market in respect of the different regions and different prices, we found it a bit confusing, does anyone have any advice on good regions to buy, places to avoid, general advice relating to the pricing, are country properties more expensive than edge of village properties?

what about buying direct from the owner to save on agency fees, is this straight forward?

we are looking to spend less than 100k for a smallish renovation property( not a full rebuild) but have seen restored property for sale at prices that seem quite good value, probably at what it cost the owner to buy and restore, any views on restoring, or is it better in todays market to buy a restored property and avoid the stress.

thanks.

 

[woolybanana]

You need to be very careful about the quality of the restoration. There is a lot of stuff done by DIY enthusiasts which ranges from the BnQ to the downright dangerous.

[ericd]

Better buy something that needs doing up for around €45k, at least you will be sure of the quality of the work.

[Pommier]

It's certainly worth trying to buy directly from sellers as you'll save the agency fee. If you find a house by this method you get a notaire to draw up the legal documents, so it's not complicated.

As for buying renovated or unrenovated, it depends if structural type work was done by registered/insured builders, with the recepts to prove it.

A good place to find privately advertised property on the internet is Leboncoin.

[starbuck]

thanks for your views and advice.

 i know that it could be a problem looking at restored property as sometimes the standard can be low if done by a unexperianced DIYer

been looking around the web at property, seems that more remote places are a lot cheaper than more built up or coastal areas, i guess the problem in these remote regions would be selling again, when(if) the time comes. do you think many people are struggling to sell at the moment? in some regions? perhaps there are some good bargains to be had.

[idun]

Yes, that is the way it is. Prime real estate, as they say, is always dearer.

If a place is very cheap and would need renovating, how can a foreigner judge it's actual eventual worth. Some areas in the dept where I used to live, would always be cheaper than the rest of the dept, there were good reasons for this. We were almost seduced by their cheapness, but fortunately were warned off.

[Mikep]

Property prices seem to be related to the potential for finding work - in country areas there are few offices or factories offering employment to younger people, so they often have to move away to big towns and cities after leaving education. Tourism only offers seasonal jobs. Distances tend to be longer, making lots of country areas impossible to commute from. This means gradual depopulation, even of very scenic areas, which holds down prices of existing property.

This may be OK if you are retired with an income, but potentially a problem if you're hoping to find work to support yourself and family.

[starbuck]

 thought that would be the case, much the same as most places,

so the prices are lower in the centre, more rural regions, which is attractive.

but what about the quality of life in these more remote areas, is there still plenty to keep people emtertained? or would a retired couple start to get bored when the newness wears off? that is what would worry me slightly, I would not like to buy a property and then after a year or so start to wonder if we had been better off buying closer to larger towns,

for example, on the web i came across this region, renovation property is quite cheap (or appears to be) 45,000 - 60,000 euros, but on the map it does look to be less around the region.( hope i can post the link)

http://www.immofrance.com/fr/show_properties.htm

any views on this region, buying property here?

thanks again.

[Quillan]

Some of the comments remind me of something that happened to me a few years back. I was in the bank waiting to pay some money in and chatting to another English person I knew. A woman a few back in the queue sidestepped and started to tell us about this wonderful property she had bought (why! I don't know). It had five bedrooms a couple of hectares of land, parking under the house for three or four cars and a massive swimming pool and all for some unbelievable cheap price. The person I was originally talking too and myself smiled politely and carried on.

That all happened in about August or September. The following February I was getting some bread and as I exited the shop this woman appeared out of nowhere and started to rant, she said the French were nasty and ignorant people, her neighbour was really nasty, why should anyone in their right mind buy a house in France as they are all rogues etc, etc. I was quite horrified and asked her why? Stupid thing to do I know. We had a lot of snow that year, she and her family had come over for Christmas and New Year when the snow fell. She had about a metre plus of snow and a long drive from the road to the house. The farmer next door used his tractor to clear his drive but did not help her at all, how rude she said. The extreme low temperatures froze the pool, which was concrete and cracked, nobody told her what to do with pools over the winter. Her daughter had lost her job because they were stranded (with little food or wood for the fire, I had visions of her breaking up furniture to keep warm) and consequently couldn't fly back to the UK. When I asked where exactly the house was she told me it was up on the plateau. Now I know the road up to there was closed for three weeks (not unheard of), I pointed this out and the fact that, yes, being in the Pyrenees and nearly 1000M up you will get snow and it will get cold which is why many of the houses are summer holiday homes and why the property was probably so cheap in the first place. Also your in the 'back and beyond', an odd shop here and there but anything serious (supermarket, post office, bank etc) you need to drive for at least 30 minutes in any direction.

So if your thinking of retiring over here rent out your house and rent here for year first to see what its like and better understand the place. The cheapest properties, as many have already said, may seem like excellent value for money but they are cheap for a particular reason. Think about what your going to be doing in France especially if your retired, you won't have friends and family living close in comparison possibly to the UK. For some it can be a very isolated and lonely life. Also take on board what others have said especially about location. When we retire properly we will be looking to move in to town rather than away because of shops, doctors and public transport. I want the other bit of the French 'dream' to be able to walk round to the bakers in the square in the mornings with my dog, get some bread and a paper then in the summer months have a coffee outside the local bar, read the paper and watch the world go by. I also don't want to have to drive miles to the nearest supermarket or shop every time I want something. I want to pop out 'early doors' with Mrs Q and have a glass before dinner, I am sure your getting the idea. Living in the sticks is all very nice but there are quite a few drawbacks especially if your older.

Final thing, when you come to France house hunting just remember to bring your common sense with you, many don't. If you wouldn't do it at home then don't do it here, don't employ the first English builder you meet just because you can't speak the language, all those sort of things. This forum is a wonderful place and there is loads and loads of information here just use the Search button (top right) then if you can't find what you want ask.

[Sprogster]

starbuck, outside Paris it is a buyers property market and in rural areas like Brittany popular with Brits there are loads of property for sale, as no doubt you have discovered. The sad facts are that the weak £ and poor economic climate in the UK are forcing a lot of Brits to sell if they can, which in the current market is difficult and can take a long time.

So if you are a cash buyer, bide your time as there are a lot of bargains to be had!

[mint]

Hi Sprogster, I see you are back with your excellent advice.

"Bide your time" sums it up beautifully.  We ourselves took nearly 2 years and we looked in "Brit" areas and, after a lot of hard work assessing, viewing, rejecting, shortlisting, we did buy from Brits who had to "go home".

We know they lost money as they had to pay a fiscal representative to document how much their loss amounted to as it was a maison secondaire for them.

As for us, we are just relieved that someone else has "taken the hit" on the house and spent months and effort having the necessary works done to extend and upgrade the property.

No, we are not complacent as we will be looking to sell the old house at some point.  But, you are so right in that having lots of patience and time is essential.

Keep a cool head, a sharp eye, an ear to the ground and treat the househunting as a job for which you might be very well remunerated.  

[dexter]

Starbuck, Good advice from Sprogster and sweet 17 about bideing your time. Slightly different circumstances for me in that it`s taken over 3 years to sell my UK house but in that time I`ve looked at over 40 french properties. Some were an absolute joke in terms of the awfull DIY work that had been done and others just not the right house for me.

Like sweet 17, the house I am buying is owned by a Brit who needs to get back to the UK because the money has run out. It`s been on the market for 18 months and reduced in price 3 times. I viewed it last year and it fitted the the bill for me as part of the property has been renovated to a high standard with the rest for me to do as and when I please. I was lucky that I managed to get a buyer in the UK and the house in France was still on the market. I paid the asking price and I doubt that there is much if any proffit for the seller.

Dont rush into things, I almost did 3 years ago at the start of my searching but if you  wait long enough the right place will come along.

Good luck,

Dexter    

[mint]

Which area is your house in, Dexter?

Yes, I fear we rushed it a bit with our first French house but we had personal reasons for rushing at that time and we also had a lot of bad luck with selling up in the UK.

This time, we didn't rush anything but did work hard researching and travelling around to different areas.  It helped that we were already in France and that we were prepared to follow up all likely leads.

Everything comes to those who wait, eh? 

[dexter]

It`s about 10 miles south of La Souterraine in dept 23.

My bad luck was to retire in September 2007 and put my house on the market in the October just when the housing market started to crash. This was after seeing a very nice property in France. After a great deal of thought and some good advice from members of this forum I walked away from buying it. Good job to, I`d have been in a right mess finance wize if I had gone ahead with it.

Quite a few people said how patient I`d been to wait so long for my house to sell and maintain the dream of a move to France, but as you say, everything comes to those that wait and the property that I`m buying fits my requierments more than the one I saw back in 2007 if I`m honest about it.

 

Dexter 

[sunny]

some great advice here, and so true! But do trust your judgement - one of the first few houses you see might be the right one, so don't wait just because you ought to see lots before you commit.

In addition to all the great advice from others, one thing I would recommend is to either buy either a ruin or something well renovated...we bought a place that was habitable but shabby and where ever we looked, there were niggling things to do here, there and everywhere.

This just ended up costing us quite a bit - we paid considerably more for the house than if it had been a complete renovation project and have to redo lots anyway.

Oh and another thing, I would be wary of buying a house which someone had bought and was selling in less than 7 years or so (unless it was a job move or to a nursing home or something similar)...don't know why, but I feel that if the house did not work out for someone else, there is a possibility that the property/location may not suit me either...a bit silly perhaps, but there it is for what its worth:-)

[Mikep]

It's nice to hear from enthusiastic buyers, but please bear in mind that the costs of buying and selling are very expensive. You'll pay at least 6% in legal fees through the Notaire (he only gets a small part of that, most is the equivalent of stamp duty), and a further 4 to 6% if an agent is involved. The same amounts will be payable (notionally by the buyer, but it still affects the price obtained) when you come to sell in the future. You should plan to be in the property for at least ten years to pay off these high entry costs.

This (along with inheritance rules) is the reason so much French property (particularly in rural areas) stays in families until it falls down - and also why the property market is so slow. It's a lot easier to buy in a hurry than to sell!

[idun]

The only costs for the seller are the 'tests' on various things in the house, and our estate agent would have incuded them in the buyers costs if we had not already had them done.

Apart from that we paid not a sou to the notaire or estate agent when we sold.

[starbuck]

Thanks everyone for the very helpful advice,

we already live outside the uk so our money is already in euros, so dont have to worry about the currency changes this time. I agree that taking our time to find the right property is good advice, I dont think the market will change anytime soon and prices start to shoot up, so I think we do have that advantage, we are happy to rent first while looking around at property.(if anyone has anything available to rent in brittany available by the month, pm me please)

I understand there may be a lot of Brits out there that would welcome a quick sale and may be open to accepting lower offers to secure a quick sale, so that they can get moved on with their plans/life. anyone know where to find any of these sellers please let me know. any good websites i should be looking at?

The costs to buy do seem to be high, and the capital growth on property very low, so I understand the advice about having to keep a property a long time to make it worth while, just makes it more important to get the right property and location, so that we are happy with it and hopefully keep it a while.

strangely enough i was just watching "a place in the sun" that was looking at the Josselin region, which was one i was looking at online for property, anyone on here live in that region, or have any views on the region.

thanks

 

 

[Wilko]

Quillan have sent you a pm..........not re tis however !

rgds Wilko

[Laurier]

I have been following this thread with interest as I have been looking for my 'perfect' property for the last couple of years. I have been up and down lots of different areas of France so am not fixed on any particular area.

Like you, Dexter, I would have been better off if I could have sold my UK place in 2007.

Thank you, Quillan, for the sound advice and I agree that I don't want to be in the sticks at my age. However, it is hard not to be seduced by some of the lovely rural properties I have seen.

Sweet, I have followed your quest for a new house and am going to take your advice and finally put my wish list out onto the forum and see if there are any takers.

So, here goes, I am looking for a place reasonably near to 'facilities' since I am a widow on my own and think that I may eventually not want to drive everywhere when I am in my dotage (not quite there yet!). It would be nice to be able to walk to get the basics. I don't have any fixed idea on type of place nor region except that I don't have the know-how nor motivation, nor finances to undertake a major renovation.

I know Normandy very well, and like it, but, as was mentioned on the forum, the Orne does have very cold winters and I think a bit further south might be preferable. However, the climate is not the major requirement and I do like lots of areas of France.

I would probably have about 90 000 Euros to spend on a place.

Please pm me if you know of anything or can put me in touch with someone wanting to sell. I will be in France again over Easter so could possibly view then.

Failing that, if anyone can point me to a particular town that might be worth my looking at, then all advice gratefully received!

Many thanks

Laurier

ps. I have picked up some fantastic tips from the contributors in the past.

[mint]

Laurier, here is a link to a website that I found very useful for getting an initial feel for what is on the market and also for contacting agents and private sellers:

http://www.frenchpropertylinks.com/buying.asp

After I have finished typing, I will look at the link and see if it's opened at the page with properties in your price range.  If it doesn't, I'll come back and explain how best to work the site.

Like you, I didn't mind particularly moving areas though I knew very well which areas I DIDN'T want to be.  The Orne department is indeed beautiful and I particularly would have liked a house in the town of Bagnoles de l'Orne.  Then I visited one year in January and again in May and the weather was perishing on the earlier visit and the temperature in May was still achingly cold.

You will soon find out where the areas are where you can buy a fully renovated or newish property in your price range.

Do all the internet work first.  Then contact the agents or sellers of properties you are interested in.  It would save time if you made appointments on the phone or on line just before your visit.

Tell agents your wish list and your budget and they should go through their portfolio and line up some properties for you to view.

Good Luck with your search.  Do not despair that you won't find your dream home because, with time, legwork, patience, etc, you will find it and, when you do, you will see how wonderful life can be when you are living where you want to be and in a property that you love.

Edit:  I have checked the link and it doesn't open on the page I hoped it would.  Nevermind, look at the top of the Home Page, fill in the boxes, eg, for sale, price range, no renovated required, private or agents and you should see several pages of properties within your budget.

[Laurier]

Sweet

Thanks very much. I have done quite a bit of Internet work and looked 'informally' at various properties and loads of areas and spoken to a couple of agents over the last couple of years.

If I ask an agent to prepare a list of properties in advance for me to view, and they ask me to sign the Bon de Visite, what happens if one of the properties I am interested in is, in fact, listed cheaper with one of the other agents as is often the case?

Thinking logically, I suppose you make an offer based on the lowest price?

As advised, I am prepared to be patient. As you said, it is easier if you are in France but I am just going to have to make more visits to view.

I have a friend who took 10 days off work one Easter with the intention of going over to France to buy. He had decided which area he wanted and went absolutely determined to buy.

Amazingly, he found a place and signed, all within the 10 days and it was his first viewing trip. I do think, sometimes, he has regretted being so hasty as he bought a place far too big in an isolated village, and I then decided I would be far more cautious than that!

So far, I am two years more cautious. However, like you, I don't want to make a mistake.

Thanks for the link - I have added it to my list!

Laurier

[mint]

Laurier, how wise and level-headed you are!

No, do NOT rush....your ideal property is out there, somewhere![:D]

I guess it's a bit like marriage:  some people see "the One" and rush in and then have regrets.  OTOH, some people rush in and it's just right!

How strange life is.....I hope with all my heart that you will achieve your aim and, believe me, when you do, you'll have that special feeling and it will all go like clockwork!

[PaulT]

Think as well if you are used to the buying process in the UK then the French is entirely different.

We have our house in the UK up for sale and from our solicitors (the sellers) I have 17 pages of questions to fill in and no doubt when we get a buyer their solicitor will send us a few more pages of questions to fill in. Give incorrect answers and I could be liable.

The norm in France is to just use Notaries who are more concerned with collecting taxes and the legal obligations seem to be very 'thin'.

Paul

[Pommier]

[quote user="Laurier"]

If I ask an agent to prepare a list of properties in advance for me to view, and they ask me to sign the Bon de Visite, what happens if one of the properties I am interested in is, in fact, listed cheaper with one of the other agents as is often the case?

Laurier[/quote]

If you've signed a Bon de Visite with an agent, then that's the agent whose charges you'll be paying, even if the house is listed at a cheaper price elsewhere.