EmilyA Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 Have been reading an article in the Observer today about how Bake Off is coming to French TV. Apparently the designated French Mary Berry is Trish Deseine who says she thinks the standard will be higher because of the "relative maturity of the two cuisines". Now my experience is that our French neighbours bake far less than we do and are amazed that my OH makes all the bread when it isn't his métier. I think they would always go to the patisserie for anything special rather than bake at home. Will look forward to the programme which will be in an orangerie rather than a tent! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clair Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 This is the article.I don't know if it's entirely true that French people bake less than British people. There are cakes baked and eaten in the French homes I visit.It's a cultural thing. Perfect cakes are made by trained people...I do know that they are less willing to show or share unless the result is close to perfection. (I see that every time a French youngster is forced to utter some English in my direction, apologising for his mistakes, as if everyone is supposed to know English without making mistakes on the way to learning.)Just looking at the French version of "Come Dine With Me" shows the degree of excellence expected from the home-cook, as well as the nit-picking level criticism levied by the "guests".It tends to be that the French home-cook will buy a cake/tart/dessert when receiving at home. The thinking is that she (it is usually a "she") has prepared several (3,4,5?) courses of the meal and can forego preparing the last one...I think we're comparing apples and oranges here! [:)]EDIT: the article mentions Cyril Lignac, the French Jamie-Oliver-wannabe. I cannot bear that man, so I'll have to pass on the program... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmilyA Posted October 7, 2012 Author Share Posted October 7, 2012 Yes I agree. My French neighbours and friends do bake, but all very simple stuff from a limited range of things and pudding always seems to be crumble, but I am sure it would be different in Paris.I think it will depend on how wide they make the range of things in the competition. Obviously the British version has covered a lot of French classics including petits fours this week. Do you think the French version will do the British classics, the flatbreads, the celebration cakes from around the world? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clair Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 Talking of bread...One of my neighbours is a retired baker and in his opinion, bread is made with yeast, water, flour and salt ONLY.There's no place for seeds, milk, fruit, sugar or anything else. I have not argued with him, it's not worth it! [:D]When the same statement was made during a bread-making workshop I contributed to earlier this year, I did mention that bread is also made in other countries and is just as worthy of respect as traditional French bread. I mentioned pita, naans, focaccia, panetone, chapatti, ciabatta... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmilyA Posted October 7, 2012 Author Share Posted October 7, 2012 And he said? I think that is what I am getting at really, the cult of the specialist, the métier. It will be interesting to see if they really go for true amateur contestants, I think. I have a feeling the idea of an ICU consultant as a star baker would be a bit of a surprise. I quite agree about getting pupils to make mistakes. One of mine said they were told not to say it if they were not certain it was right..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clair Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 [quote user="EmilyA"]I quite agree about getting pupils to make mistakes. One of mine said they were told not to say it if they were not certain it was right.....[/quote]So, so true! And so, so sad... [:(]I tell them that they don't know how to drive until they actually sit in the driver's seat and start the car and they won't learn how to speak English until they actually start saying something in English. They're not born knowing how to drive, so why (why oh why?) do they expect to know how to speak a foreign language?[blink] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clair Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 [quote user="EmilyA"]... my experience is that our French neighbours bake far less than we do... [/quote]Here are a couple of pics taken last Saturday evening, when a local association was celebrating a milestone anniversary. Some background,, to give them a bit of context:One the activities the association organises encourages people to demonstrate and share over the course of an afternoon, whatever it is that interests them to whoever wants to attend. This is usually held in the home of the "demonstrator" and up to 20 people can attend. My neighbour and I hosted two bread-making workshops and demonstrated to around 35 people. Last Saturday, those who had shared were invited to contribute to the buffet. My neighbour baked 48 baguettes in her oven at home and I made some cakes based on a brioche dough. One participant made a mountain of macarons, another prepared éclairs and choux, another made apple tarts, another prepared a tray of North-African sweets.[IMG]http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q296/clair46/Homebake/DSCN0376772x558_zps4c81c057.jpg[/IMG][IMG]http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q296/clair46/Homebake/DSCN0373800x565_zpsd6dbd71d.jpg[/IMG][IMG]http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q296/clair46/Homebake/DSCN0376800x578_zpse90f649e.jpg[/IMG][IMG]http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q296/clair46/Homebake/DSCN0379800x530_zps5fafa6a8.jpg[/IMG][IMG]http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q296/clair46/Homebake/DSCN0374800x576_zps372a8351.jpg[/IMG][IMG]http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q296/clair46/Homebake/DSCN0375787x800_zpsd912d8e1.jpg[/IMG]Based on these, I can say, with some confidence, that home-baking is alive and well, at least around where I live... [:)]PS: other activities are also demonstrated. There is tree-grafting, basket-weaving, acrylic and pastel painting, video-editing... and it's all free!PPS: a free electronic magazine created by culinary bloggers is available online every 3 months or so. It's in French and has great recipes. Certainly worth a look... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmilyA Posted October 15, 2012 Author Share Posted October 15, 2012 Wow! That is seriously impressive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idun Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 What can I say about France and cakes, baking and cooking.Well the tradition in the city I initially lived in for a couple of years, was to take a bought cake if invited to eat at someone's home. OR the hosts would have bought one. I would take one I had baked. At least it was fresh. My local patisserie would put out the fresh gateaux on a Tuesday or Wednesday, and they'd be sold on the Sunday morning, sometimes Saturday. I only found this out, as I was looking in the window and a Paris Brest was being put in the window and the owner put her finger through it as she put it down. It was there all week, until Sunday. And then I kept my eye on the cakes and that was how it was.At another friends, who was quite a snob really, I bit into a tarte aux noix de grenoble and I spite it out, straight into my napkin, so awful was it and when I looked at it, it was covered in thick dust. She took all the tarts back and the baker didn't even say sorry.The tarte au citrons in my village boulangerie were wonderful when fresh but awful when several days old and they often were several days old.At the ecoles in the village we parents would be asked to bring cakes to be sold. One, well, unforgettable, was presented like it was the best in the world and with much fuss. We unwrapped it and it was burnt black and even then, when I would have binned it, someone else cut into it and the centre, the raw centre on this burnt cake spewed out, beurk! Were there any excellent bakers, nah, not really. Nothing like that spread you have posted Clair.I taught several french woman friends how to bake choux pastry. I taught several people how to bake bread. One of the first friends I made in my village had said that she bet I wouldn't make a gateau au yaourt. I had never heard of one and she detested them and that was what just about everyone made. Easy and not terribly nice. And food in other people's homes, well, have I ever had anything that has knocked my socks off, no. I have had some nice things like sauce a l'oiseille, which isn't rocket science and easy peasy, and not hard to make it even more special. Have I had any sort of cake or pastry in someone's home that was superb, nope, never.Which is not to say that my food knocks people's socks off, but it is usually good and my puddings, often I make two or three, are very nice indeed. My guests never see other than my best.Frankly, I do not know what the fuss is about french cooking. I never have. It can be nice, but not orgasmic. And the way food is 'gone on about' then maybe it should be touching the spot, at least sometimes.And bread, well, in France, I have had some lousy professionally baked bread and some lovely bread. I have had lovely bread in other countries too and bread can have other things in it, although, I am fond of plain old fashioned bread with lots of butter smoothered on it. How will this program be. No idea and probably won't be shown on TV5 Monde although I would watch it if it is, I would be very curious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YCCMB Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 Idun, you've summed things up for me. Don't get me wrong, I've enjoyed some lovely meals and cakes and stuff at friends' places in France, but nothing that's been memorable in its culinary complexity. In fact, the most memorable thing I've eaten recently was some barbecued chicken, cooked by a friend who used to run our village bar/resto, and he's always been a brilliant cook - simple food, of great quality, well prepared.I get a bit cheesed off when my neighbour says "mais tu cuisines bien!" in a somewhat incredulous voice (and I know she doesn't mean it in a bad way: it just sounds as if she's gobsmacked that as a non-French person I can cook at all). I'm no Nigella or Delia...I like to cook for friends but I wouldn't make much impression on Masterchef.I am usually stunned by the prices of cakes in the boulangerie - even in the supermarket - and wonder what possesses people to pay such huge prices for a dessert when they can make something nicer and fresher for a lot less money. OK, these cakes look great, but I'd rather something that looked a bit more rustic but tasted superb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clair Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 [quote user="idun"]What can I say about France and cakes, baking and cooking...[/quote]This sweeping generalisation is based on your experience of "France and cakes, baking and cooking". This is not my experience. I've had indifferent meals, and bad meals when I lived in England, but I would never apply a blanket comment such as "the food in England is bad" based on these meals.I so dislike sweeping generalisations. They give such a distorted view... [:(] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YCCMB Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 [quote user="idun"]What can I say about France and cakes, baking and cooking. in the city I initially lived in for a couple of years, .... My local patisserie... ...At another friends...in my village boulangerie ... in the village we parents ...Were there any excellent bakers, nah, not really. Nothing like that spread you have posted Clair... several french woman friends ... in my village ... in France, I have had some lousy professionally baked bread and some lovely bread. [/quote]Clair, I think perhaps your response was a tiny bit hasty. Idun's post (as I've highlighted above) seems, rather than a "sweeping generalisation" to be quite clearly a personal view based on her own experience. I think the opening sentence, quoted in isolation and out of context, is simply an introductory statement to put the following into some context.Without wishing to inflame things, and with no personal rebuke intended, I think it's sometimes a bit difficult for someone who is not French to understand why French people sometimes seem so defensive about their culinary heritage and skills.. As Brits, we've had to get used to it!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clair Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 I have the same reaction whenever I see a sweeping generalisation, whatever the topic (you can search the forum for previous comments on the same subject![:D]) An individual's experience does not make a general opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idun Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 And Clair, I have not said that the french eat 'la me rd e'. That all french cooking is disgusting, that the french eat jam with every meal. Because IF you want sweeping generalisations, you should have been in my shoes for ALL the years I was in France, where I was fair game for all who did not know me. What I put up with, with amazing good grace were insulting and terrible generalisations, never mind sweeping ones! And when one is getting regular comments like that, with the portant c'est vrai as the final salvo, so that any discussion/argument was closed, then I really thought that I could have expected delicasies that teased and tormented my taste buds, leaving me yearning for more or better still, completely satisfied. I always wanted and hoped I could have expected more than half decent food, I really wanted supreme. So I too dislike sweeping generalisations and I have simply stated what I have encountered. It is not distorted and I have always lived in hope that we would get that magic, and helas we never did. Maybe because we didn't live in the pure campagne perdue, people never had much time to cook and bake, and that could well be the reason. My cooking, well, I frankly built up quite a reputation, I'd have very frightened people almost reluctantly accept my invitations and would always come back for more and more and more. I'm not a a chef, I'm a home cook, who tries her very best, always, to put an interesting and tasty meal on the table for my guests and succeeded in that. Food and eating has always been one of my greatest pleasures. I am exigent, and why not, that is my right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YCCMB Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 I'm struggling with the difference between Idun's personal experiences as posted on this thread, and yours or anyone else's posted on this thread, Clair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clair Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 [quote user="idun"]... IF you want sweeping generalisations, you should have been in my shoes for ALL the years I was in France, where I was fair game for all who did not know me...[/quote]I feel for you. I know from your other posts that you enjoy cooking, baking and all food-related things, but when a post starts with "What can I say about France and cakes, baking and cooking...", it does seem that the comment is generally about "France and cakes, baking and cooking", rather than what an opinion about what the poster was subjected to while she lived in France.Getting back to the topic of the French version of the Bake-Off, it will be shown on M6, the same channel which shows the French version of "Come Dine with Me" and the French version of the American cooking program for kitchen pros, "Top Chef". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mint Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 [quote user="You can call me Betty"]I get a bit cheesed off when my neighbour says "mais tu cuisines bien!" in a somewhat incredulous voice (and I know she doesn't mean it in a bad way: it just sounds as if she's gobsmacked that as a non-French person I can cook at all). I'm no Nigella or Delia...I like to cook for friends but I wouldn't make much impression on Masterchef.I am usually stunned by the prices of cakes in the boulangerie - even in the supermarket - and wonder what possesses people to pay such huge prices for a dessert when they can make something nicer and fresher for a lot less money. OK, these cakes look great, but I'd rather something that looked a bit more rustic but tasted superb.[/quote]But I should hope you're a MUCH better cook than Nigella! The early Delias were great; in fact, I learned lots of skills and techniques from the Delia programmes when I was newly married to someone who was really serious about food back in the early 1970s.The price of cakes, yes, that I can completely agree with. I don't mind buying the odd cake or two from our boulangerie but I couldn't bring myself to spend the crazy amounts demanded by supermarkets.Also, I don't agree that the "cakes look great".....I think they look sickly and disgusting. But, that's just me, because firstly, I don't really have a "sweet tooth" and secondly, I like "homely" cakes and not confections of sugar, fake cream, unnatural colours and tough-looking pastry. Edit: forgot to say that in my gym class, there are just the 3 of us (out of about 45) who bake regularly (the other two are French) and we swap cakes and recipes throughout the year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chancer Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 I am compelled to say that I found Iduns comments a sweeping generalisation. But only so I can follow it with............................................... Et portant c'est vrai! [;-)][6] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YCCMB Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 [quote user="sweet 17"][quote user="You can call me Betty"]. I'm no Nigella ...[/quote]But I should hope you're a MUCH better cook than Nigella! [/quote]I think a lot of people are, Sweets.[:D] I must admit, there are a lot of Nigella's er..."attributes" that I'm not endowed with. I was probably thinking about those, rather than her cooking.[:$] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russethouse Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 Just in case anyone has forgotten its the final of Bake off tonight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mint Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 oooh, thanks, RH, I HAD forgotten!I think it's got to be the young-lad-what's-his-name?[:)] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pommier Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 James? I think that's the name of the lad who made the ruined barn out of gingerbread, which was just fantastic, complete with cobwebs. I'd agree with what's been said about Delia and Nigella - can't stand Nigella, but I've still got Delia's original Complete Cookery Course, and her recipes invariably come out good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gardengirl Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 I'm still catching up - just watched the gingerbread buildings episode. I think I'll have to watch the final tonight and then go back a step; I know who's in the final. I've supper to finish cooking, then eat it, then pour a drink and watch the final. Not Brendan you think? I think the Scottish chap is very good, but any of them could scoop the prize. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russethouse Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 I like Brendan, he is what he is and happy about it - yes he can be fussy and he can be a little retro .......not sure he'll win though.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gardengirl Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 That really did go right to the wire, and was quite exciting! A nice result, I thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Please sign in to comment
You will be able to leave a comment after signing in
Sign In Now