Why we are getting out of the UK to join you....

[Jonzjob]

Wow!!! I sincerely hope that the holiday will go on for a   L   O   N   G time yet Jotty? I do understand most of what is said to and about me and so far it's ALL bin complimentary, would I lie to you my boy?

Mr Smiff, how dare you call me a fly-by-night? As the old R.A.F. expression goes "Only birds and fools fly for a living and birds don't fly at night." I know, I know, there are a few birds that do fly at night but as I have said before generalisations are always wrong! (Now is that last statement a generalisation I ask myself [8-)]?)

And!!! My kneez are brown, it may be muck, but they are brown...[:P] Ask Pads!!

[Jotty]

Wow!!! I sincerely hope that the holiday will go on for a   L   O   N   G time yet Jotty

I hope so too! It's great when it's great.

I just think that people like 5 element, who is French, and people who have gone through the whole French system including working here, being unemployed, taking retirement, having to deal with a multitude of Agencies etc (some of whom make the CPAM look like a Kindergarten)  have had more opportunities to meet the sort of rude attitude than more recent arrivals who may have simply bought a house and applied for Health cover, or those who simply have a Holiday place here and don't really need to be involved with all that.

I agree that if you go in with a bad attitude you will probably find it reflected back at you, but I also think that there exists a sort of gratuitous rudeness which comes from the fact that in some positions people feel that they are 'petits chefs' .

One of my friends who works in the Mairie said quite unconsciously to me the other day "of course they can never get rid of me..I have passed the concours", and this sort of security without any accountability may explain some of it.

There is also as well as rudeness, a sort of willful delight in making difficulties.

This morning I went to the Post office to send some money by Western Union.

For once there was nobody at the counter (it is the end of the month so nobody has any money to withdraw) , so I went straight up to it.

The lady behind the counter said 'Prenez un ticket'   ...not please or would you mind.

She was in the right because they have just installed a system where you have to take a numbered ticket on arrival and wait your turn., but she could have expressed it in a better way.

So I took the ticket, and waited for about 5 minutes while none of the 3 clerks served anybody or seemed to do anything.

My number came up, and I went to the counter.

I had the money all ready, and my ID, as I thought.  I have a Carte de séjour which is now out of date as they are no longer compulsory, so I gave here my French driving licence, as I have done many times before.

"That's not a pièce d'Identité " she snapped  "and never has been"

I pointed out that it had been accepted as such frequently so she changed tack

"Western Union now requires a pièce which has a  finishing date on it, which a French driving licence doesn't have"

( This change isn't something I could have known)

I offered my British  passport

"That doesn't count, because it doesn't prove the address of the sender"

I offered my carte de séjour

"It's out of date"

I suggested the combination of my Passport to prove my ID and my licence to prove my address, and got a grudging agreement.

Now she is probably technically right, but there are ways of dealing with a member of the public who simply wants to buy a money transfer service which would have left me feeling less at fault.

I didn't go in with a bad attitude, but I certainly came out with one.

Not the best publicity for the campaign against the privatisation if 'La Poste'

[Clair]

I was telling my sister about an incident which happened a couple of weeks at the place where I was temping.

An employee (not a temp) dropped a huge pile of papers on the floor of the factory and nobody, not a single person among the twenty or so bodies around helped him gather his papers, apart from me.

He swore a few times, he stomped about and he left. He never looked at me, he never acknowledged my help in any way, shape or form. No thanks, no smile, no glance. I was invisible.

I was telling my sister about this and her reply was:

"Well, you can understand why he would be like this, if he has to work for peanuts in a factory year after year... Ca se comprend (it's understandable)."

And there you have it. It is perfectly justifiable to take whatever is bugging you on those around. That's understood and acceptable.

And in case you hadn't noticed it, like 5-E, I am French too.

[babcock]

[quote user="5-element"]

 I could give you a long list of instances,   one of the worst being a friend who was asking on the phone with CPAM (in a very nice way as you couldn't find ayone more mellow, polite, and positive, with fluent French) how long her carte vitale was likely to be, she was by the CPAM employee that "it will take as long as it takes, and if you don't like it, you can go back to England". My friend was so gobsmacked that she wrote a letter to the CPAM management for the discrimination aspect and the general rudeness to the public, asking if employees undergo any training in communication with the general public - this friend never even received an answer - even though she herself, was awarded the French Légion d'Honneur a few years ago by Chirac for services rendered to France. I know this is anecdotal - but I know of so many more anecdotes like this.

 [/quote]

We have found that the best way to deal with CPAM in particular is by email. Phone calls can be denied and letters even recommande can be put at the bottom of the pile but for some reason emails get a response in a day or two. There is a "code marianne"  (someone will correct me if this is not the right name) which details the response times for queries, complaints  etc for government departments. Actually an English translation of this would be very useful

[Jotty]

I agree about the emails  and have suggested this on other threads for Tax queries and usually get a quick reply.  I have also used it for Pension (French) queries.

[Jonzjob]

We try to see the lady down the road from us, or our maire. They both work in CPAM here [8-|]... Nice people...

Of course I realise that you are French Clair and you are one of the lovely ones too [kiss][blink][:D]!

[Clair]

[quote user="Jonzjob"]Of course I realise that you are French Clair and you are one of the lovely ones too [kiss][blink][:D]![/quote]

Right back at you! [kiss]

[YCCMB]

Last year, on a trip to Paris for work, I was at CDG airport returning to the UK. When the flight was called (Air France) we had to walk down some steps and board a bus to the plane.

After descending the stairs and crossing towards the bus, I stood on the edge of the pavement, and the paving stone literally crumbled under me, sending me headlong onto the floor, suitcase flying. I was on my hands and knees....so I picked myself up, dusted myself down and looked around....to see the woman who was supervising the boarding staring back at me, then looking down at the paving stone and making a sort of  "Tut tut" noise. Did she ask if I was OK? Did she hell.

1) In this situation, the question of whether I was polite or not clearly doesn't enter into it

2) I'm as confident as I can be that had the same thing happened to me at Heathrow, someone would have come to see if I was OK, at the very least.

Yeah, put me down as someone who thinks the words "French Customer Service" form an oxymoron.

I still have a scar on my knee...not that anyone at Roissy or Air France would give a toss.[:D]

[Danny]

[quote user="You can call me Betty"]Yeah, put me down as someone who thinks the words "French Customer Service" form an oxymoron.

[/quote] agreed

Danny

[Jonzjob]

Betty, they probably thought that you were just another drunken British person. After all you were destroying the paving and throwing you baggage around??? [:-))]

If it had happened at 'eafrow they would have dived in to help to try to make sure that you didn't sue?[:-))]

[Chancer]

Or at "theifrow" where your case would have been "saved" and plundered before it hit the ground if there were any baggage handlers in the vicinity [6]

I too vote for the rude/customer service = oxymoron but I dont respond in kind instead I go the other way and become crushingly polite.

My area is quiet unique, I would describe the majority of people as "ignorant et fier de l'être", after 4 years I am just beginning to convert one or two people that I regularly deal with to smile once in a while and even sometimes be helpful, it is an uphill but rewarding crusade as strangely my few converts were (and continue to be with others) the rudest.

[5-element]

J.R. I am with you on that: it is rewarding to make converts just by persevering in the positive/smiling/pleasant policy department. After 7 years where I curretly live,  2 or 3 members of the extended family next door have finally began to respond to our consistent and persistent polite and open attitude towards them, especially when we commiserated with a couple of dramas they had. But even within that family unfortunately, there are the "irréductibles" who  treat us either as if we are completely invisible, or something they are trying to scrape off their shoes. With those, I remember the sound advice of some (usually very mild-mannered) French friends: "Il ne faut pas se laisser faire!"  It does need some fine tuning though.

As for customer service, I have tried all kinds of behaviour, have gone through many motions. It is true that it sometimes helps to be able to keep one's very British "sang-froid", but not always. I am not sure that "crushingly polite" is something that is always readily understood in France where the class system is different from Britain. With the British class system, if you become crushingly polite, you also automatically do it with the most middle-class/upper class accent you can muster, so that it puts the person you address in an inferior servant mode, it is designed to make your interlocutor feel somewhat lower. You just don't get that automatic knee-jerk response from the French. Those are interesting nuances.

[mint]

5-e, I love your post.  I can talk ordinary and I can talk posh.

I don't talk posh unless I have to and, it's true that when I do, I get better service in the UK.

Here in France, malhereusement, I can only talk the French that I have learnt.  Mind you, I can talk with a Parisienne accent (which I learned in the UK) or I can talk with a Charentaise accent which I have learnt and am still learning here!

[Jacqui Too]

Well I would like to tell you about my recent experience at my local 'La Poste'. I went in (this was only my 2nd time) to extend my redirection of my post from France to my home in UK, there at the desk was a rather nice looking 30-40ish man, he immediately returned my smile and I greeted him with bonjour monsieur and proceeded to explain what I wanted and that I wanted to have a price first before I proceeded (this took a little time as my French is not good and it was very hot in there [:$]), He was extremely patient and was very helpful, then came the price! 55€ for 3 months!! I thought 100€ for the previous 12 months was extortionate and after several 'c'est trop cher's' I finally agreed to go ahead, he filled in all the form and I then asked if they took CB card, 'no' they didn't, cash or cheque, oops no cheque book on me! cash well I only had 53€ in my purse. OK I thought I'll go back home and get the cheque book, I asked what time they closed, oh no in 10 minutes! and I was leaving for the ferry the next morning at 7.00am! no way had I got time to return. The very nice man went into the back room and came back with a woman, it transpired that this woman lived in my little hamlet (never seen her before) she told me she was the wife of the plumber and where they lived and that I could put my cheque in her letter box and she would take it into work the next day for me. I was gobsmacked at their kindness.

I left with my confirmation of the redirection and I posted my cheque with a thank you note through her post box[:D]

I don't think the same would of happened in my post office here in UK!!

[mint]

I too had a similar but slightly different experience with the insurance company.

When we moved here, we had to insure our house on the day of signing (as normal!)

We did have a French bank account, a very basic one with no cheque book.

I told the insurance people this but that I would send them a cheque as soon as I obtained a cheque book.

Meantime, I needed the house insurance in order to complete our purchase.

No probs, came the swift reply.  We will insure you, madame, and when you have sorted your bank account, just send us your cheque!

I, too couldn't believe what I'd heard!  Incroyable, as the French themselves would have said!

[Weegie]

I have had the experience of not having sufficient change in our village post office and the post mistress couldn't change a note.  Her response was to take the letter for posting and say, "just drop it in when you are passing".

Approach is everything, IMHO.  For instance, when looking for information, I would always start with "Bonjour" before asking a question.  It is usually acceptable in UK to ask a passing assistant, "Can you tell me where such and such is located?" without preamble.   The tone of voice setting the mood, if you like.  I believe it is considered to be rude (brutal) in France. Perhaps a reason for non(poor)-response from shop assistants and the like?

[plod]

It's no different to the UK - it all depends who you come upon. There those who can and those who can't be bothered.

[Thibault]

In our "local" Castorama (about 20kms away in a largeish town), it is sometimes amusing to watch the assistants scatter if it looks as if you are going to ask a question.

If you do manage to pin one down, the usual shrug follows with the answer that it is not his or her department and we must speak to another ( usually vanished by this time) assistant .[:@]

[YCCMB]

Bricomarche just recently got the prize from me. Looking for some inox pipes to line the chimney, they only had one solitary length of the diameter we wanted. In the true B&Q spirit, the staff are all decked out in natty little pinnies with "Can I help you?" written on them. So, I approached one of the pinny-wearers and asked very politely (complete with the requisite social niceties) if he could tell me whether they had any more. However, it was not his rayon, he said, but he'd find someone for me. And off he went. A couple of minutes later, I saw him diving between two aisles far away, with clearly no intention of finding someone to help me. So, I approached another (female) assistant. Social niceties completed, I explained what I wanted, and, surprise, surprise, it wasn't her rayon either.

"Well, can you tell me whose rayon it is, then?" I asked, nicely "Who do I need to look for?"

"Well, he'll be wearing a red pinny, like this one" she replied

"But the first person I asked had a red pinny, and he couldn't help me, and so do you, and you can't help me either" I said "Perhaps a physical description would help?"

By this time, she'd led me into another aisle, where another assistant (red pinny but clearly not the person I needed) was standing, and he caught the tail end of our exchange. He, however, had a walkie-talkie and looked as if he might have the means to contact someone.

"So what would you like him to look like?" He asked

"As long as he's got a pulse, I'm not too bothered" I replied

This seemed to break the ice, or at least it caused the woman pinny-wearer to try and stuff a large chunk of her pinny into her mouth to suppress a giggle.

"I'll get someone for you" said Mr walkie-talkie......and he made a call.

A good couple of minutes later, a man in a red pinny (see? she was right!) turned up, to tell us that they were out of stock.But it had to be the Right Person, you see.

I have considered writing to Bricomarche to suggest they change the slogan on their pinnies to read "I can't help you, it's not my rayon".

[Jotty]

So those of us who have come across rude/obstructive service simply don't have enough French or experience of life in France to say 'bonjour'?

I never thought of that...

On the other hand try that one on in Marseille..[8-)]

[5-element]

[quote user="Jotty"]So those of us who have come across rude/obstructive service simply don't have enough French or experience of life in France to say 'bonjour'?
[/quote]

[:D]

Saying bonjour, I guess that's one more thing my mother never taught me....

 

On the other hand, Jotty and others, maybe there is the question of "intention". The people we greet and are polite to, maybe they can psych in and see that we don't really really mean it, and so it is because of our hidden-agenda-attitude that they are rude and/or obnoxious.[:P] CQFD.

[Panda]

HA!  Yeah right, I have the bad attitude, never thought of that!

I always set out with the intention of being nice, even when I took my off chicken back, I started with a smile and a bonjour.  I must say once the CS person started to tell me it was my fault I am just as capable of telling her where the chicken should be stuffed!  I've been here a few years now and whilst once I would have shrunk away from such a confrontation I now adopt the same approach as I would if I was spoken to in that way in the UK and put my point of across. 

Perhaps some on here would suggest we approach with a sweeping bow as a preamble to a request for service![:D]

 

[Weegie]

Well if you want to deliberately distort the point, be my guest.[:P][:D]

[Boiling a frog]

We have been here in France for just over 6 years.Up until March this year I would have said that the French were polite and generally helpful.Customer service not bad and certainly nothing as bad as what has often been described on this and other forums.

However since march I have come up against the French customer service several times.

Firstly ,Car was broken into and wife's  Passport, UK driving licence  UK bank card  carte vitale handbag purse and approx 50 euros stolen. Plus spare set of keys for car and caravan.Door lock was forced and we could not lock the car.

Off to gendarmerie where very polite helpful gendarme took our report and gave us a copy for insurance.

We went to insurance and the first words uttered by insurance person was that we were not covered for the cash.

I said that I was going to take the car to the Toyota dealer because the spare keys had been stolen and our address was also in the handbag so they could come to the house and steal the car.

Insurance man said that was not likely , and that if I took the car to the Toyota dealer I would have to pay for the repair myself  and then claim back from them as it was not one of their approved repairers.I pointed out that only a Toyota dealer could supply a new electronic ignition key. To cut a long story short car was taken to the Toyota dealer but it took our insurance 2 weeks to authorise the repairs. I asked for a replacement car and was told my policy did not cover me for a replacement car. I then had to produce my policy and point out the clause which said I was entitled to another car which they reluctantly agreed to .

In the meantime my Toyota dealer having heard my tales of woe gave me a courtesy car for nothing..

Score so far    Gendarmes and Toyota dealer excellent  Assurance Terrible. 

The bad customer service was absolutely nothing to do with good or bad attitude on my part just a total inability to ensure that they get their facts right.  

Next run in was at the Bank.

Asked for an energy efficiency loan to install double glazing. All went well until I read the loan agreement and the interest rate being quoted was more than that being advertised . I queried this and was told the special rate only applied for energy efficiency projects, installing a new central heating system with an approved boiler. I said that it also covered double glazing. Bank official stated it did not . I told them that it did, and handed over the pup leaflet I had picked up a few days before. The bank official obviously did not even believe his own banks publicity and telephoned someone. ( I suspect head office) and then agreed that I was correct . But no apology and it could have cost me 500 euros more in interest and also a penalty if I wanted to pay back early.

Once again a lack of product knowledge and a refusal to listen

Again nothing to do with attitude.

I wonder if these problems arise because the French have argued and shouted about poor customer service for years and the people on the receiving end have now decided to just adopt a totally uncoperative attitude hoping that these people will just give up and go away.

Or maybe it is something totally different.

Like: We are the experts we know what we are talking about do not dare challenge us.

[Panda]

[quote user="Boiling a frog"]

Like: We are the experts we know what we are talking about do not dare challenge us.

[/quote]

This is certainly the attitude I have come up against, they are quite shocked when you do challenge them.