Controle Technique for moto's for 2010

[milkeybar kid]

Spotted this on another forum -Do you think there will be much opposition?

Président Sarkozy has idea of " Contrôle Technique" for motobykes. Could cost Euro 100.[+o(]

A good idea?

MBK

[sid]

Have you got a link?

100€ sounds a bit steep but I don't have any objection to a CT; I've always thought that it's a bit odd that they don't have them for bikes here.

Sid

[Sunday Driver]

There is certainly an official appetite for technical inspections of PTWs.  The CT is only compulsory in seven of the fifteen EU Member States and the EU Transport Directorate are looking to extend this to all countries.

Last summer, an initiative called The Moped Safety Challenge was introduced following the publication of some pretty awful statistics - cyclomoteurs comprise 1% of the traffic but account for 17% of accident fatalities.  In 2006, nearly 6,000 children were injured in accidents involving scooters and cyclomoteurs and of these, accident investigators found that two thirds did not conform with the code de la route in terms of brakes, lights, tyres, power ratings etc.  The insurance companies are considering refusing cover unless a garage report is produced certifying compliance with safety standards.  In fact, the government threatened to raise the driving age from 14 to 16 so as to prod the industry into recognising the problem and taking steps to help.  They also massively increased the penalties for anyone in the trade being caught derestricting motorcycles.

The French motorcycle association (Fédération française des motards en colère - FFMC) opposes the compulsory CT.  Their argument revolves around a few key points: that motorcyclists are enthusiasts who maintain their vehicle conscienciously, who recognise they'll fare badly if they don't, their machines allow easy access for checking tyres, brakes, etc.  They also point out that, unlike cars, you don't see motorcycle 'wrecks' being ridden around.

However, I suspect that relying on the responsibility of the rider is not going be sufficient to divert the coming of the compulsory CT for motorcycles.....

 

[milkeybar kid]

Sid, Not sure if I am allowed to post a link to other forum but here goes

http://www.totalfrance.com/france/forum/viewtopic.php?t=36030

[;-)]

 

[sid]

Thanks MBK, but not much info there. This is a much better forum! [:D]

Sid

[Sunday Driver]

Update:

Following an announcement by the Prime Minister the other day, the plan to introduce the CT for motorcycles has been postponed, ostensibly because the necessary technical infrastructure is not yet in place.  Informed opinion is that it will be introduced in 2009 to coincide with the new compulsory registration of cyclomoteurs.

 

[Motorhead]

Aye right.

"The necessary technical infrastructure is not yet in place"

In fact it's not even in place yet for the new national number plate system never mind anything else. The new vehicule de collection regs have been supposed to be coming in every year since 2005 or was it 2006. Nothing's going to happen any time soon.

I agree there is a serious problem with the dreadful state of many of the mopeds one sees but a biannual inspection by someone who has only a vague knolwedge of PTWs is not going to achieve anything. Bikes, especially small ones, do go off a lot faster than cars if you don't look after them well. A proper test by an expert every 2 months would be doing things properly but we all know this is never going to happen.

It all seems to me to be very much like the dangerous dogs orders in the UK, a hasty and ill thought out sop to public opinion by publicity hungry politicians which achieves nothing that could not have been done with existing legilation if only it had been enforced.

If the police and the gendarmes got off there backsides and did their job properly there would be no problem with deathtrap mopeds. The legislation to take unroadworthy vehicles off the road is already in place.

[AnOther]

A year old thread but still relevant I think. What is the current situation regarding CT for motorcycles ?

A friend of mine has a UK regged Moto Guzzi 1000 (1991) in storage but is keen to get it on the road. Anybody got advice for the CofC and a replacement headlight ?

[Bugsy]

As far as I'm aware it has been shelved, due to massive protests by the two-wheeled community.

Couldn't see any problem with it personally and it would certainly improve the safety of the youngsters currently riding round on unmaintained death-traps.

SD is the man on CoC.............he'll be on shortly (when he's finished his Horlicks)....[:)]

.

[Dog]

I signed the petition against this legislation. I do hope when it does get pushed through it is not 100 euros that's robbery.

Deaths will not necessarily go down with bike checks. Annual bike tests only prove that the bike was roadworthy that second. MOT tests are regularly got around in UK.

Moped deaths have more to do with the age and skill level of the rider and even more of the blind car drivers. Young adults have a high mortality level because they are young and foolhardy - would we propose an ageing process - inject them with atheritis. Take away their mopeds and motorcycles and they will kill themselves with drugs and drink.

Motorcycle maintenance lessons at school would be a way forward.

Why do those with vested interest always want more legislation, the world would be a better place with less legislation. They use any excuse to increase taxes and legislation and nothing really changes except taxes go up and GDP goes down. Europe is drowning in bureaucrats we need to tax them at 100% of salary to regain control.

One of the reasons France is better than the UK is that it's inhabitants are treated as gentlemen and adults not subjects.  Any motorcyclist that does not look after his/her bike will soon find out that it hurts - it's called natural progression, it increases knowledge and makes a better person. Legislation just increases bureacracy and increases criminality within and without the system.

 

 

[BIG MAC]

[quote user="Dog"]

I signed the petition against this legislation. I do hope when it does get pushed through it is not 100 euros that's robbery.

Deaths will not necessarily go down with bike checks. Annual bike tests only prove that the bike was roadworthy that second. MOT tests are regularly got around in UK.

Moped deaths have more to do with the age and skill level of the rider and even more of the blind car drivers. Young adults have a high mortality level because they are young and foolhardy - would we propose an ageing process - inject them with atheritis. Take away their mopeds and motorcycles and they will kill themselves with drugs and drink.

Motorcycle maintenance lessons at school would be a way forward.

Why do those with vested interest always want more legislation, the world would be a better place with less legislation. They use any excuse to increase taxes and legislation and nothing really changes except taxes go up and GDP goes down. Europe is drowning in bureaucrats we need to tax them at 100% of salary to regain control.

One of the reasons France is better than the UK is that it's inhabitants are treated as gentlemen and adults not subjects.  Any motorcyclist that does not look after his/her bike will soon find out that it hurts - it's called natural progression, it increases knowledge and makes a better person. Legislation just increases bureacracy and increases criminality within and without the system.

 

100€ does seem expensive, however perhaps cheap for a life saved and perhaps sufficiently costly to price some of the wreckage riders off the road. There can be a massive difference in the riding qualities of a well maintained machine over a poorly maintained one. If preparation for test forces some of these young people to become familiar with their machines checking brakes tyres and lighting and ensuring they work as well as they should, lives will be saved there can be little doubt.

I would advocate a system whereby a passed test costs considerably less than a failed one and where proper maintenance is in some way incentivised. To suggest that an interface with the hard landscaping will somehow make the motorcyclist a better person is peurile. Legislation which prevented people riding 35hp 250s with ropey handling on a Provisional licence in the UK has saved lives Oh how our civil liberties were eroded! UK bikers are now better trained and as a consequence safer.

 

 

[/quote]

[Dog]

[quote user="BIG MAC"][quote user="Dog"]

I signed the petition against this legislation. I do hope when it does get pushed through it is not 100 euros that's robbery.

Deaths will not necessarily go down with bike checks. Annual bike tests only prove that the bike was roadworthy that second. MOT tests are regularly got around in UK.

Moped deaths have more to do with the age and skill level of the rider and even more of the blind car drivers. Young adults have a high mortality level because they are young and foolhardy - would we propose an ageing process - inject them with atheritis. Take away their mopeds and motorcycles and they will kill themselves with drugs and drink.

Motorcycle maintenance lessons at school would be a way forward.

Why do those with vested interest always want more legislation, the world would be a better place with less legislation. They use any excuse to increase taxes and legislation and nothing really changes except taxes go up and GDP goes down. Europe is drowning in bureaucrats we need to tax them at 100% of salary to regain control.

One of the reasons France is better than the UK is that it's inhabitants are treated as gentlemen and adults not subjects.  Any motorcyclist that does not look after his/her bike will soon find out that it hurts - it's called natural progression, it increases knowledge and makes a better person. Legislation just increases bureacracy and increases criminality within and without the system.

 

100€ does seem expensive, however perhaps cheap for a life saved and perhaps sufficiently costly to price some of the wreckage riders off the road. There can be a massive difference in the riding qualities of a well maintained machine over a poorly maintained one. If preparation for test forces some of these young people to become familiar with their machines checking brakes tyres and lighting and ensuring they work as well as they should, lives will be saved there can be little doubt.

I would advocate a system whereby a passed test costs considerably less than a failed one and where proper maintenance is in some way incentivised. To suggest that an interface with the hard landscaping will somehow make the motorcyclist a better person is peurile. Legislation which prevented people riding 35hp 250s with ropey handling on a Provisional licence in the UK has saved lives Oh how our civil liberties were eroded! UK bikers are now better trained and as a consequence safer.

 

 

[/quote][/quote]

 

You are falling into the bureaucrats trap. Two million x 100 euros is wasted money.

Education Education Education I did advocate it.

The 250 law produced a bunch of liley livered PC people.

Nylon tyred bad handling bikes produced world champions something UK doesn't have now.

Life should be an adventure.

 

 

 

[BIG MAC]

[quote user="Dog"][quote user="BIG MAC"][quote user="Dog"]

I signed the petition against this legislation. I do hope when it does get pushed through it is not 100 euros that's robbery.

Deaths will not necessarily go down with bike checks. Annual bike tests only prove that the bike was roadworthy that second. MOT tests are regularly got around in UK.

Moped deaths have more to do with the age and skill level of the rider and even more of the blind car drivers. Young adults have a high mortality level because they are young and foolhardy - would we propose an ageing process - inject them with atheritis. Take away their mopeds and motorcycles and they will kill themselves with drugs and drink.

Motorcycle maintenance lessons at school would be a way forward.

Why do those with vested interest always want more legislation, the world would be a better place with less legislation. They use any excuse to increase taxes and legislation and nothing really changes except taxes go up and GDP goes down. Europe is drowning in bureaucrats we need to tax them at 100% of salary to regain control.

One of the reasons France is better than the UK is that it's inhabitants are treated as gentlemen and adults not subjects.  Any motorcyclist that does not look after his/her bike will soon find out that it hurts - it's called natural progression, it increases knowledge and makes a better person. Legislation just increases bureacracy and increases criminality within and without the system.

 

100€ does seem expensive, however perhaps cheap for a life saved and perhaps sufficiently costly to price some of the wreckage riders off the road. There can be a massive difference in the riding qualities of a well maintained machine over a poorly maintained one. If preparation for test forces some of these young people to become familiar with their machines checking brakes tyres and lighting and ensuring they work as well as they should, lives will be saved there can be little doubt.

I would advocate a system whereby a passed test costs considerably less than a failed one and where proper maintenance is in some way incentivised. To suggest that an interface with the hard landscaping will somehow make the motorcyclist a better person is peurile. Legislation which prevented people riding 35hp 250s with ropey handling on a Provisional licence in the UK has saved lives Oh how our civil liberties were eroded! UK bikers are now better trained and as a consequence safer.

 

 

[/quote][/quote]

 

You are falling into the bureaucrats trap. Two million x 100 euros is wasted money.

Education Education Education I did advocate it.

The 250 law produced a bunch of liley livered PC people.

Nylon tyred bad handling bikes produced world champions something UK doesn't have now.

Life should be an adventure.

 

 

 

[/quote]

 

Presumably in one of your nylon tyred forays you managed to bang your head? I have passed both tests 250 and the latter two part test and therefore can comment with a degree of objectivity. Nylon and carbon carcassed tyres did nothing  for the Handling of my articulated KH250  and I survived despite them not because of them. That and I maintain my bikes to a high standard.

Perhaps the Education you so staunchly advocate could extend to the kind of education I received from the guy who MOT'd my first bikes. If memory serves his name was Jackie Waddell (Or similar) ex. IOM racer who had been badly injured and had all sorts of silver plates etc in his arms. This guy even though he had one arm shorter than the other had at the time (Mid 1970s) a Harris Magnum Kawasaki with the clip ons adjusted to suit his disability, the Magnum was painted in Vellocette silver and green colours and was magnificent. This chap always took the time to show us where we were getting things wrong and would help us repair minor defects in order to gain that precious MOT pass.

Since Barry Sheene's last victory in the 500cc Championship  (1977 If I recall) There has not been a British Senior GP World Championship winner however nylon tyres were not very much in evidence on the racetrack and of course would not be a differentiator as the tyre technology of the day is the tyre technology of the day. Skill preparation and tactics are key.

The discussion is on the merits or de-merits of the Controlle technique for motorcycles. A test is not only valid for one day as is oft quoted, an examiner will see items approaching the end of service life and consider them in line with established criteria ie. Tyres on wear bars, badly aimed lights, perished fuel lines, leaky shock absorbers, worn or badly adjusted brakes, Chain tension and condition, wheel alignment, cush drives, head and swingarm bearings etc. etc etc. all items which are unlikely to wear out overnight but picked up at test may help prevent a road accident.

 

 

[Dog]

[quote user="BIG MAC"][quote user="Dog"][quote user="BIG MAC"][quote user="Dog"]

I signed the petition against this legislation. I do hope when it does get pushed through it is not 100 euros that's robbery.

Deaths will not necessarily go down with bike checks. Annual bike tests only prove that the bike was roadworthy that second. MOT tests are regularly got around in UK.

Moped deaths have more to do with the age and skill level of the rider and even more of the blind car drivers. Young adults have a high mortality level because they are young and foolhardy - would we propose an ageing process - inject them with atheritis. Take away their mopeds and motorcycles and they will kill themselves with drugs and drink.

Motorcycle maintenance lessons at school would be a way forward.

Why do those with vested interest always want more legislation, the world would be a better place with less legislation. They use any excuse to increase taxes and legislation and nothing really changes except taxes go up and GDP goes down. Europe is drowning in bureaucrats we need to tax them at 100% of salary to regain control.

One of the reasons France is better than the UK is that it's inhabitants are treated as gentlemen and adults not subjects.  Any motorcyclist that does not look after his/her bike will soon find out that it hurts - it's called natural progression, it increases knowledge and makes a better person. Legislation just increases bureacracy and increases criminality within and without the system.

 

100€ does seem expensive, however perhaps cheap for a life saved and perhaps sufficiently costly to price some of the wreckage riders off the road. There can be a massive difference in the riding qualities of a well maintained machine over a poorly maintained one. If preparation for test forces some of these young people to become familiar with their machines checking brakes tyres and lighting and ensuring they work as well as they should, lives will be saved there can be little doubt.

I would advocate a system whereby a passed test costs considerably less than a failed one and where proper maintenance is in some way incentivised. To suggest that an interface with the hard landscaping will somehow make the motorcyclist a better person is peurile. Legislation which prevented people riding 35hp 250s with ropey handling on a Provisional licence in the UK has saved lives Oh how our civil liberties were eroded! UK bikers are now better trained and as a consequence safer.

 

 

[/quote][/quote]

 

You are falling into the bureaucrats trap. Two million x 100 euros is wasted money.

Education Education Education I did advocate it.

The 250 law produced a bunch of liley livered PC people.

Nylon tyred bad handling bikes produced world champions something UK doesn't have now.

Life should be an adventure.

 

 

 

[/quote]

 

Presumably in one of your nylon tyred forays you managed to bang your head? I have passed both tests 250 and the latter two part test and therefore can comment with a degree of objectivity. Nylon and carbon carcassed tyres did nothing  for the Handling of my articulated KH250  and I survived despite them not because of them. That and I maintain my bikes to a high standard.

Perhaps the Education you so staunchly advocate could extend to the kind of education I received from the guy who MOT'd my first bikes. If memory serves his name was Jackie Waddell (Or similar) ex. IOM racer who had been badly injured and had all sorts of silver plates etc in his arms. This guy even though he had one arm shorter than the other had at the time (Mid 1970s) a Harris Magnum Kawasaki with the clip ons adjusted to suit his disability, the Magnum was painted in Vellocette silver and green colours and was magnificent. This chap always took the time to show us where we were getting things wrong and would help us repair minor defects in order to gain that precious MOT pass.

Since Barry Sheene's last victory in the 500cc Championship  (1977 If I recall) There has not been a British Senior GP World Championship winner however nylon tyres were not very much in evidence on the racetrack and of course would not be a differentiator as the tyre technology of the day is the tyre technology of the day. Skill preparation and tactics are key.

The discussion is on the merits or de-merits of the Controlle technique for motorcycles. A test is not only valid for one day as is oft quoted, an examiner will see items approaching the end of service life and consider them in line with established criteria ie. Tyres on wear bars, badly aimed lights, perished fuel lines, leaky shock absorbers, worn or badly adjusted brakes, Chain tension and condition, wheel alignment, cush drives, head and swingarm bearings etc. etc etc. all items which are unlikely to wear out overnight but picked up at test may help prevent a road accident.

 

 

[/quote]

Calm down Big Mac I think the McDonalds diet has got to you.

We are arguing the same point from different perspectives.

How would you have felt at 17 having to pay £600 for an inspection of your pride and joy?

[BIG MAC]

Big Mac is a reference to my postion in family pecking order and nothing to do with ones consumption of reclaimed hooves and glue. There are also a Mrs Mac, Mini and Midi Macs!

Clearly your reference in terms of affordibility is disengenuous. 100€ is  about the equivalent of a third of my 20 year old sons  wages and just about the same for a test as it would have been when I was his age.

At 17 I can tell you my pride and joy was a 1972 Suzuki TS90 which cost me £150 and needed a rear tyre,  front brake shoes, a brake light switch, a battery and rectifier before I could get it MOT'd. How did I feel when it passed? undeniably proud of my work.

[Dog]

[quote user="BIG MAC"]

Big Mac is a reference to my postion in family pecking order and nothing to do with ones consumption of reclaimed hooves and glue. There are also a Mrs Mac, Mini and Midi Macs!

Clearly your reference in terms of affordibility is disengenuous. 100€ is  about the equivalent of a third of my 20 year old sons  wages and just about the same for a test as it would have been when I was his age.

At 17 I can tell you my pride and joy was a 1972 Suzuki TS90 which cost me £150 and needed a rear tyre,  front brake shoes, a brake light switch, a battery and rectifier before I could get it MOT'd. How did I feel when it passed? undeniably proud of my work.

[/quote]

Sorry for the mad meat reference.

We are  not talking about the cost of getting training/licence. We are talking MOTs.

100 euros could be the cost of  a yearly MOT!

Do we need someone to charge us 100 euros to tell us our bike is OK?

Molst children have fathers that will not allow their kids to ride a dangerous bike.

Cheaper and better than more civil servants.

[ventodue]

Yeh, last I remember was Fillon saying things weren't ready ...

"Le Premier ministre a tranché, mercredi 13 février 2008 : « Le contrôle technique moto ne paraît pas aujourd’hui techniquement prêt. » "

FFMC has organised a petition against: http://www.motardsencolere.com/spip.php?rubrique53/, one argument being:

"En effet, avec seulement 0.7% des accidents de 2rm directement causés par une défaillance technique du véhicule, on ne constatera pas d’amélioration du risque moto par la mise en œuvre d’un contrôle technique".

Me, with 5 bikes all in GWO, I'm saying nothing ...[:)]

Craig

[BIG MAC]

I am currently visualising Prana as Pyritese shrapnel.........

the 100€ MOT in real terms to a young person no dearer than it was to myself as a fraction of weekly wage (Approximately a third)

Unfortunately my own father didn't live long enough, I guess there's others in the same boat.

I dont't need telling my bike is roadworthy, it's nice when the tester concurs with my opinion.

My Insurers are likewise reassured when the pass certificate is handed out. Currently there are plenty of potential death trap putt putts on the French roads so I guess French fathers aint so particular.

[BJSLIV]

So instead of a full control they are allowing the Forces of Order to prohibit the use of any vehicle including motorbikes based on a visual inspection. At least they have given plenty of notice. it doesn't come into force until April 2009.

http://www.motomag.com/Procedure-VE-le-controle-technique-5312.html

It an extension of the powers which already exist to examine vehicles that have been involved in an accident or an insurance claim

http://www.leparisien.fr/economie/les-vehicules-accidentes-seront-mieux-controles-07-01-2009-364185.php

avec la menace qu'une moto ne soit déclarée "non dangereuse" qu'une fois équipée de l'intégralité de ses accessoires d'origine.

 

 

[Mr Wiggy]

I think that the majority of avid riders would, as a matter of course perform their own checks on their vehicles. It’s simply called preventive maintenance, and this I would imagine is what most responsible riders would automatically do.

Even from a very early age I was trained in the principles of maintenance and have always maintained and built all of my own bikes although I’m not the best when it comes to cleaning them, (ask SD) but do know if something is not 100% and I think that is is a big part of the discussion, the accomplished rider would certainly know if things were not right and automatically correct the problem.

[Bugsy]

[quote user="BJSLIV"]

So instead of a full control they are allowing the Forces of Order to prohibit the use of any vehicle including motorbikes based on a visual inspection. At least they have given plenty of notice. it doesn't come into force until April 2009.

http://www.motomag.com/Procedure-VE-le-controle-technique-5312.html

It an extension of the powers which already exist to examine vehicles that have been involved in an accident or an insurance claim

http://www.leparisien.fr/economie/les-vehicules-accidentes-seront-mieux-controles-07-01-2009-364185.php

avec la menace qu'une moto ne soit déclarée "non dangereuse" qu'une fois équipée de l'intégralité de ses accessoires d'origine.

[/quote]

If it gets rid of those stupid 'swarm of buzzing hornets' exhausts off the kids bikes it'll do for me.

I witnessed a lad at our local bike shop buying one of the aftermarket exhausts for his 50cc 'thing. Looking at his bike outside the shop, his chain was brown with rust and totally knackered and the rear tyre was 'slick' bald.

.

.

[BIG MAC]

Legislation for legislations sake I am no great fan. I dont know if figures are produced for deaths caused by erratic putt putt useage but I have certainly seen cars have to take avoiding action as these things work so hard for their speed they are on ocassion unwilling or unable to stop. There is a part of me that looks back to the FSIEs and AP50s of the mid 70s, the smell of two stroke hanging in the air at the college gates..... But these Mopeds even then had to undergo a simple MOT, if you broke your neck it was more than likely operator error.

Back to the test for bikes in France yes it appears a bit costly and this should be looked at but I suspect it already has. I would like to see a couple of things done at the same time as a sweetener. 1) I think it would be nice if all the Peage were made gratis for bikes over 125cc 2) There should be an option for bikes under 125cc to have either the full year at 100€  or twice a year at about 40€ and carried out at a dealership or approved technicians. This may just make the putts putts a bit safer and allow for the building of a relationship between young people and those with a bit more savvy.

 

[bmt]

[quote user="BIG MAC"]

I would like to see a couple of things done at the same time as a sweetener. 1) I think it would be nice if all the Peage were made gratis for bikes over 125cc 2) There should be an option for bikes under 125cc to have either the full year at 100€  or twice a year at about 40€ and carried out at a dealership or approved technicians.

[/quote]

Hang on, those sound more like sweeteners for a road tax than for a routine road-worthiness inspection.

Plenty of stuff on the FFMC site for lack of justification for regular testing on road safety grounds.  Also some interesting stuff on the Véhicules endommagées and the compulsory immatriculation of leisure and off-road vehicles.

[Sunday Driver]

What I don't understand in all this is where the mythical 100€ came from.....

 

[BIG MAC]

They sound like encouragement for those who previously didnt need an inspection to get something back a) An incentive to get out and use them b) An incentive to learn how to maintain them and progress through the ranks to larger machines.

I am no fan of taxation at the best of times however if one is being required to pay for a test why not have it set up to provide more than just a 'must do'

I hate scrabbling for coins at Peage with people behind getting narked hence the idea.

100€ courteousy of Dog I believe I am more interested in the principles at play rather than the actual amount...well that is unless it's 89.51€ which is blatantly taking the Mick!