Is it advisable to use english solicitor

[drallab]

I have made an offer on a house in France which has been accepted, I am paying the

notaire fees, but would it be advisable to also use an english solicitor as well?

[idun]

No, what could / would they do?  And how would they be able to do anything anyway.

The buyers pay the notaires fees in France and the estate agents fees, if applicable.

Notaires don't do searches, they just sort out the papework, make sure it is all there, the right names are on the paperwork including marriage contract details and the amount of tax you have to pay.

[PaulT]

Would it not depend on how knowledgeable the UK solicitors are in relation to house buying in France? They could make enquiries about any proposed developments etc in the area and also advise on any clauses in the sale documents.

I know of a couple in the UK buying a house in the UK who have pulled out because their solicitor discovered some legal problems.

Personally, when we bought, we just used the Notaire that we appointed - the sellers Notaire only spoke French and our one spoke perfect English.

[Clarkkent]

[quote user="drallab"]I have made an offer on a house in France which has been accepted, I am paying the notaire fees, but would it be advisable to also use an english solicitor as well?[/quote]

Why?

What special insights do English solicitors - trained in English law - have about French property and contract law?

[AnOther]

The fact that millions of French people manage to buy and sell houses through the established Notaire system tends to suggest that it works reasonably well so unless you know of, or have some reason to suspect, that there are issues or circumstances that warrant it I think it's difficult to justify the expense of a UK solicitor.

Many enquiries you can do yourself at the Mairie. They will have cadastral plans of the commune which should show which land is earmarked for development etc. and equally which is not, and based on the property location I think you can generally rely on your own common sense in deciding how likely it might be that a 6 lane peage is coming past your door in the foreseeable future. This is France don't forget not a tiny overcrowded island where the demand for new factories/supermarkets/roads is insatiable, it's very probably one of the reasons you are moving !.

As it happens we did use a UK solicitor but only because there was an ongoing dispute about a servitude and we wanted to be absolutely sure that

A. we understood it correctly and

B. the seller was being legally bound to cover all current and future costs in relation to it as she was promising to.

She was actually French and knew the system but in the end it turned out to be much ado about nothing and more to do with two old French biddies who loathed each other than about a servitude itself so in retrospect it was wasted money but it made us feel more comfortable at the time.

[Will]

If you are confident about your knowledge of the French house buying process and are aware of the potential pitfalls (or know somebody who can help), then all a solicitor is likely to do is to cause delays looking into things that you can find out yourself.

If you are new to the process and don't have particularly good French language skills then you can either do as most of us have done and take a chance that all is OK and above board - as it will be in the great majority of cases. If there is a particular aspect that you are worried about or if you need general reassurance, then by all means use one of the many English lawyers who specialise in French property (not just any solicitor will have the knowledge).

The decision is yours.

Good luck [:)]

[P-D de Rouffignac]

Having read the replies so far, you will have got the clear impression that it is not generally necessary to use a UK based solicitor. Their role is advisory only, as they cannot complete the French transaction (that is the Notaire's prerogative), and they can at best rely on the documentation made available to them by the French Notaire. Even a literal translation of the sales documents ('compromis de vente' etc) can be tricky unless you (the buyer) understand the finer points of the French legal system.

More useful, I think, is to ensure your Notaire explains the implications of what you are signing - he/she has a general duty of care in this respect - and one who speaks a little English (and many do) can help enormously in this respect.  The Notaire does a certain amount of research, for example at the local mairie, and checks the history of the ownership of the property, correct title (proof of ownership by the vendor), and the absence of any easements (anything that might affect your enjoyment of the property like a right of way).

However, as others have noted, the Notaire - unless he happens to know the property personally - won't necessarily visit it nor can he/she guarantee the state it is in (any more than a UK solicitor would do in a UK property sale), and there is no substitute for conducting you own investigations on the ground - state of neighbouring properties, neighbours and their cars (a telltale sign!); noise levels during the day, evening, weekend - all things that can affect your enjoyment of the property.

If there is adjacent empty land, the planning department at the mairie can advise as to its status - constructable, agricultural etc., though this can change over time. If the area is classified as subject to risk, such as flooding, this is known and documented. If you like the property and are perhaps thinking of extending it, the planning department can let you know informally what would or woud not be allowed.

This sounds like an awful lot of hard work but note that in France you buy a property at your own risk 'in the state in which you find it' and if in any doubt employ a local specialist - surveyor, architect etc.

Hope this helps and as others have said, the vast majority of property transactions go through without a hitch.

P-D de R.

 

[Dog]

I used a UK based lawyer who was also a qualified French lawyer. I had a peculiar problem in that the sale took over a year as the Notaire involved enjoyed playing golf and drinking to working.

The lawyer I used was on the ball, gave the Notaire a rocket, checked all paperwork and local planning applications, could be contacted at all times and saved me a trip to France to sign the paperwork. He even sorted things so I could pay in pounds in UK.

They operated from Birmingham and did a fixed cost of £600 to see through a purchase. If you have any doubts or concerns I throughly recommend them, I only wish I had instructed them earlier.

I am not usually a fan of lawyers but the Anglo/French lawyer was worth every penny.

[Araucaria]

When we bought a few years ago we were told it was the accepted wisdom to use an English solicitor to help in the way Dog describes, so we did.

Frankly in our case it was pretty well a waste of money.

But I think that if you have complicated family or matrimonial arrangements you may wish to talk to an English lawyer who handles French property transactions to make sure that your UK and French long term expectations match up (after all, "in the long run we are all dead" according to John Maynard Keynes).

French inheritance law can be a minefield.

[Laurier]

Have read P-D's informative post and wonder - Does every little mairie have its own separate planning department? I have been to the mairie to check up on various things in my search for a property and it seems to be a two-'man' operation with the mayor and his secretary. They seemed to be doing everything. Can i rely on the information being objective ?

I need to check out all you have said above. However, it so happens that the mayor is the local farmer who has taken over some land which belonged to the person selling the property. I need to make sure it is all completely above board and I understand it is his responsibility to put in substantial fences (?) so that his cattle don't come over from his newly acquired land (formerly part of the property) into my remaining garden.

The other problem is that he didn't seem to be aware that the vendor had changed the house from one dwelling to two dwellings, i.e. his house and a gite. He said, therefore, that this would affect my fonciere. I suspect a bit of bad feeling between the two but wonder if it's my job to ask for the Impots to come and reassess the property before I decide to buy if the vendor hasn't advised them of the changes.

I did wonder, therefore, if I should get the services of an English solicitor (versed in French law, as Will said).

This is my first 'serious' foray into purchasing and, if I proceed with this one, I certainly don't want to upset the local officials.

Thanks

Laurier

[idun]

The Mairie has to send everything off to the DDE anyway, which is the planning dept. We have been to our DDE about various things over the years, even though we lived in a big village with it's own little office to deal with such things, as we knew that they still had to send everything to the DDE(direction departementale de l'equipment).

You'll find yours if you go onto www.pagesjaunes.fr  and type in DDE and your dept number.

[Laurier]

Thanks Idun. I didn't know anything about the DDE but found it straightaway in pagesjaunes and found the office covering the property I'm interested in.

I will definitely pay a visit over there.

Rgds

Laurier

[jihe0530]

Of course you can. If only the solicitor were capable.

[Rob Roy]

Maybe the English solicitor will know where "limouges" is (the OP's French location?) [;-)]