Med coast but no sun!

[David]

We have bought an holiday house on the Med coast near Perpignan with a small gardens back and front.  The soil is basically sand dunes mixed with builders' hard core rubble to firm up and raise the sand dune above sea water level of the adjacent lake which is connected to the sea.  The front garden faces south east and we have planted local plants including an olive tree and various plants that are supposed to like dry sunny conditions.  These plants are surviving well despite our extended absences.

The small garden at the back of the house is our problem.  It faces north west, and because of the adjacent buildings gets no sun, except perhaps one hour a day in the evening of high summer.  The plot is exposed to the full force of the Tramontane wind which is ferocious particularly in winter, and which can easily reach 140 kph as we have discovered to our dismay.  The wind blows most days, but usually between 70 to 90 kph.  We have also discovered that the area is said to be the wind surfing capital of the world!

The soil in the back plot is poor, and in winter when it rains it can flood for several days as there is no drainage.  (I know!  We have taken this up with the builders, but they are adamant that building regs in this area do not require drainage).  For the rest of the year there is little or no rainfall so the patch dries out and becomes hard baked with cracks in the soil.

We have tried all the plants recommended by the local garden centre but all have promptly died after planting, so any ideas about plants that could survive this harsh environment would be very much appreciated.  Even ones that would just cover the soil and stop the dust blowing around.

We did wonder about a cactus that could absorb the water at times of flooding, and then survive the drought for the rest of the year.  But this would not spread out to provide ground cover.

Any ideas welcomed, and thanks in advance.

David

[le bouffon]

NO SUN,sorry but today it`s 26oC on the terrace,yesterday was in the 30 somethings,and the wind does not blow every day(although since you are only down here on hols you may think so).Re plants ,dig up the NW facing bit ,remove all the soil down to a good depth and replace it with some good quality local top soil.

[Viv]

Try having a look at the 'expert' gardening books by Hessayon.

He gives examples of plants and shrubs for all types of soils and climates.

I have got some of these somewhere, I'll get back with more info IF I can find them. 

[Tony F Dordogne]

Try to find gardening books by Graham Stuart Thomas or Marjorie Fish.

Though they were written some time ago, GST's books especially give all sorts of ideas for maintaining gardens in the most inhospitable conditions. 

[David]

Many thanks for your helpful replies.  I will pass the gardening books to wife who is the gardener, and perhaps we can find them when we return to the UK, as we live in France department 79.

I envy Le Bouffon with her high temperatures, here today in department 79 it was about 5 degrees with a bitter north east wind.  Our neighbours on the Med coast in Port Leucate tell us that the temperatures there are low, and definately not sunbathing weather.  We were there last week, and with the wind blowing (Port Leucate advertises 300 days a year wind surfing) the air temps were low, but it was nice out of the wind and in the sun.

I wonder if the temperatures mentioned were proper air temperatures out of the sun, or if they were sun affected.

Unfortunately we cannot move the soil as the nearest road is 150 metres away, and I am in a wheelchair.  We planted the plants in deep garden centre bagged compost, but they still quickly died.

We have found that the two sides of the house have different climates, with the sunny south east being pleasant, but the sunless north west being cold and yucky at this time of year.  In summer it is a welcome relief from the heat.

Thanks for the replies,

 

David

[le bouffon]

ERR please note the Le in le bouffon as in lui.

[David]

Sorry le bouffon, got mixed up thinking of a womans' bouffon style (but checking the dictionary that should that be bouffant).  Of course a woman would use "la".  Please accept my apologies.

I also see that bouffon means clown, which perhaps explains the jesting about the temperatures on the Med coast reported, which do not accord with any French TV weather forecasts that we have seen.  Or perhaps you left the thermometer in the sun out of the wind, rather than recording the air temperature in the shade and in the wind?

Will remember the clown bit in future, and will not bite.

David

 

[le bouffon]

The temps are indeed taken out of the wind,and are taken on our sun trap known as a roof  terrase berween 13000 and 1500.ps remember the french give the minimum temps.

[David]

[quote user="le bouffon"]The temps are indeed taken out of the wind,and are taken on our sun trap known as a roof  terrase berween 13000 and 1500.ps remember the french give the minimum temps.[/quote]

Thanks for clarifying the temperatures.  For weather comparison purposes temperatures are always reported by all met agencies after being taken out of the sun and in any wind.  That is the purpose of a Stevenson's Screen which you may have seen photos of.  This is a white louvred box with the thermometer inside, but being exposed to the outside air while being screened from the sun.

Any other way of taking temperatures is faulty, particularly if the thermometer is exposed to the sun, as the recording device will then absorb radient heat, and all thermometers react differently to this.

The Spanish have developed a very useful "beach temperature" advice.  Here they report the actual air temperature as noted above, but then give another temperature which advises what this will feel like on a beach exposed to the sun, but sheltered from the wind.  This has been developed after experimentation, and has no direct physical measurement, but it is very useful for beach users.  Much the same as wind chill factor.

I really do envy you having a sheltered roof terrace in the sun and out of the wind.  This must be wonderful.  However, that is a micro climate, and does not reflect average temperatures on the Med coast.

In particular it does not apply to a north west facing garden which is exposed to the Tramontane wind coming straight off the snow covered Canigou mountain which is in full view of the garden, and which garden does not receive any sun, which was the original post.

I really do hope you continue to enjoy your sheltered micro climate roof terrace, and I envy you.  But I would be grateful if you would not divert a serious gardening post with inaccurate information.

Knowing that we cannot change the garden soil, can you forget your clown's hat and recommend any plants that could survive regular drownings and cold temperatures in winter, followed by months of drought, poor soil except garden compost that they are planted in, and very little or no direct sunlight?

Kind regards,

David

[Viv]

As you garden is small, have you thought about buying an assortment of nice pots, in different shapes, sizes and colours and filling them with bulbs  etc that can be stored away at the end of autumn?

We have quite a few of these that we put on those wooden things with castors on, so we can move them about easily.

They look pretty stunning actually.

I will try and come up with suitable plants for your garden asap.

[Tresco]

David, what size is the back garden (roughly)? Can you describe exactly how is it enclosed?

It's quite a combinaton of problems you have there. I have been cross referencing plants like mad with no success. The answers to these questions might help.[W]

[Viv]

Just  found this, plants that like wet winters and dry summers.

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/nwgardens/117813_gardenlist17.html

Obviously you may not be able to locate all the plants in garden centres in France but you may possibly via mail order, hope it helps a bit.

[Tresco]

That's great viva, it'll make the cross referencing much easier as none of the books I've got use that combination.

I'll have another bash. David are/were you a gardener in UK

[le bouffon]

Why not just concrete it over(I mean you do not live down here so how do you expect any plants to servive whan you are back in the UK?)and then tile it.Grow some palms or what ever in the front garden(if you can get someone to water them for you,there are lots of people down here that will do that for you,but thats another topic)and take them round  them to the back now a patio now  that you tiled it.ps the information is correct,ie out of the wind and in the sun while sun bathing it as been at times this week up to 39oC.

[Tresco]

While i think your suggestion makes a certain amount of sense, I think David and his wife would perhaps have already considered it and are either unable to do that, or would prefer not to.

It's a difficult and challenging situaton but there are plants that will grown in even the most inhospitable sitation. Some of us are trying to identify what plants will grow in it.

[IMG]http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i76/twinm/tinybunny.jpg[/IMG]

[David]

Dear Tresco and Viva,

Thank you very much indeed for your kind assistance.  Our background info, (with reference to some of le bouffon's comments) is that we live in France department 79 Deux-Sevres, about 6.5 hours drive from our other house in Port Leucate.  We are both getting very close to our 60th birthdays, and presently I am in a wheel chair, so we cannot do any heavy work.  In Deux-Sevres we have a garden of 7000 square metres which my wife Anne looks after, with a lot of help from the neighbours.  My wife is an amateur gardener and she has successfully managed gardens from the Scottish Highlands to East Anglia, but the back patch in Port Leucate has beaten her.  We go down to Port Leucate fairly often, as often as my health and weather allow, and we avidly follow the French TV weather forecasts, but there are times when we are absent for months, for example when I have been in hospital.  We could ask the neighbours to look after the garden fully, but we do not want to become too indebted to them, and we are trying to be independent.

In our Port Leucate sheltered and sunny front garden, about 15 feet by 40 feet, we have planted palms, olives and other local plants which the neighbours water occasionally for us during the summer, and all are doing well.

The back plot has already been half covered with cement to form a terrace outside the kitchen and dining room, all of this area is completely sunless.  We are left with a plot of about 20 feet deep and 40 feet wide which presently is bare earth with some dead plants planted in it.  We have considered pot plants, but in summer these will need too much watering, and may be too heavy for us to move out of the garden for winter.  We do not want to cement over the rest of the back plot, as this would give a desolate look out of the kitchen.  We would like some easily maintained ground cover plants, and hopefully some with a bit of height, that will provide some colour and interest throughout the year from the kitchen.  Presently the plot is completely open to the Tramontane wind, it faces North West and gets virtually no sun.  In winter it floods, and in summer it dries out.  It is a new development and the developers have planted a small hedge around the plot which is about 18 inches high with lots of gaps.  We do not know what plants have been used for the hedge, but they have not yet died.  In a few years this hedge will provide shelter, but not yet.

I hope this is enough information for you, and many thanks for all your help,

David.

[Tresco]

Hi David

Now that is a real shame that the hedge has been planted but is so tiny.  As you suggest it could be several years before it functions as a backdrop, and provides shelter from the fierce winds you describe.

Is there any chance you could put in a simple post and wire fence. I don't mean the diagonal type green plastic covered wire, just plain wire strands. It will look funny at first because you'll only be able to see the posts, but you could grow fast growing climbers up them; later the posts and wire will be covered by the hedge, and the climbers can scramble through and on top of the hedge. I realise this is more money, and that you would probably have to get someone in to do it.

I have a list of plants (including climbersand ground cover) but will have to cross half of them off now I know how your garden is (not) enclosed. I'll come back later today or tomorrow with whats left.

It's a killer problem. If you have got broadband this image shows what it has made me feel like, so I dread to think how you must feel. [IMG]http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i76/twinm/OrionsBurningMan.gif[/IMG]

 

 

[Viv]

Where we are it gets very windy and a lot of people use what I can only describe as some sort of matting which comes in a roll, which they attach to the fence or put it (somehow) behind immature bushes .

It is natural fibre so it looks nice ( well I think so) but 'gives' a bit , so it doesn't fall down in high wind like solid panel fencing. I don't know what its called but if I can find out , do you think it would help a bit?

Wouldn't putting mulch around plants help to keep some of the moisture in the ground in the summer and help soak up water in the winter, just a thought.

[le bouffon]

Why not try growing mushrooms they grow in the dark and feed on,well not sure ask tresco.

[Benjamin]

I think the fencing that viva is referring to is known as " brande " and is actually made from heather, although of a much heavier variety than found in normal gardens. It comes in various heights and thickness/quality. The stronger the local wind then the greater the thickness required. The normal support method is posts (wood or metal) and wires.

However probably the best way of deciding if this is the route to suit you, then have a look round at what other people are using, especially the locals.

Benjamin

[Russethouse]

Frankly I think whatever plants are suggested, sooner or later you are going to have to improve the soil at least a little, and I suspect it is probably worth investing in the materials and labour to do this rather than watch everything you plant die or fail to thrive.

 

 

[le bouffon]

Didn`t I suggest that my first reply, perhaps the poster will listen now. I was a qualified gardener and arborist in my mispent youth. Another string to my bow. 

[Russethouse]

What you were suggesting was relacing all the top soil, what I am suggesting is enhancing or bulking up the current poor loam with some good nutrient rich humus.

Qualified gardener eh ? My.............. you have been hiding your light under a bush. RHS ?

[le bouffon]

Another sad but true tale from south of the midi....please if you want to know what is hidden under my bush ...well it`s best kept off the forum.

[David]

Many thanks to all for your very kind assistance.  This is written in haste between thunder storms as we have an overhead, non broadband, telephone connection, and I have already lost two modems even through surge protectors.

I will reply fully when the weather settles down.

Thanks, David