David Posted April 1, 2006 Author Share Posted April 1, 2006 Just a thought, perhaps I should have called this post "Hardy plants for holiday home gardens on the Med Coast"?What do you proper gardeners think?David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tresco Posted April 1, 2006 Share Posted April 1, 2006 "Hardy Plants for Unbearable Heat but Little Sun, Coupled With Flooding in The Cold Winter Months, Sahara Conditions in the Summer, and the Odd Splash of Sea Salt Borne on a Tremendous Wind" may have been better David.[:D]You would need to wrap the Oleander up for winter, I think, at least till the hedges get going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted April 1, 2006 Author Share Posted April 1, 2006 Tresco,You have summed it up almost perfectly,"Hardy Plants for Unbearable Heat but Little Sun, Coupled With Flooding in The Cold Winter Months, Sahara Conditions in the Summer, and the Odd Splash of Sea Salt Borne on a Tremendous Wind" misses out the poor builder's rubble soil. The builders did lorry in what they laughingly called "top soil", but this looked as if it was a top scraping from another building site!We await their next delivery of top soil, if ever it appears! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tresco Posted April 1, 2006 Share Posted April 1, 2006 Apologies."Hardy Plants for Unbearable Heat but Little Sun, Coupled With Flooding in The Cold Winter Months, Sahara Conditions in the Summer, and the Odd Splash of Sea Salt Borne on a Tremendous Wind, to be Planted on a Bed of Builders Best Rubble"I can see now that from a marketing point of view, this looks better[:D]David, Garden Expert (all 6ft 4' of him) is frightened of the forum. He emailed me and said; 'why is there someone going on about roof terrasses', only it was less polite. Still, garden expert will consider the problem and so there may still be plant ideas forthcoming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TWINKLE Posted April 1, 2006 Share Posted April 1, 2006 "Hardy Plants for Unbearable Heat but Little Sun, Coupled With Flooding in The Cold Winter Months, Sahara Conditions in the Summer, and the Odd Splash of Sea Salt Borne on a Tremendous Wind, to be Planted on a Bed of Builders Best Rubble"Tresco, you forgot the Neighbours Dogs Droppings [+o(] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tresco Posted April 1, 2006 Share Posted April 1, 2006 Apologies"Hardy Plants for Unbearable Heat but Little Sun, Coupled With Flooding in The Cold Winter Months, Sahara Conditions in the Summer, and the Odd Splash of Sea Salt Borne on a Tremendous Wind, to be Planted on a Bed of Builders Best Rubble with a Dollop of Dog Droppings".It's gone way beyond Beanz Meanz Heinz hasn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
val douest Posted April 2, 2006 Share Posted April 2, 2006 David - My French gardening encyclopaedia lists 'sedums' so I guess the name isthe same - probably the Latin name is used as the common name in thiscase. I had another look at sedum John Creech on the internet andunfortunately most of the references to it seem to be from within theUSA. However, I did discover that it is a sedum spurium, manyvarieties of which are available in Europe so you just might belucky. If I find anyone who could supply it or knows where itcould be found, I will let you know.Val Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
val douest Posted April 2, 2006 Share Posted April 2, 2006 I should have looked a bit harder before I posted! Two things:first, sedum is also known as stonecrop, and secondly - and moreimportantly - I think I have found something which might help.If you look at the website of the Cedar Nursery in Surrey (http://www.landscaping.co.uk/Sedum/) you will see that thecompany has developed a sedum matting suitable for laying on theground, roofs, etc with no need for soil as it has its own growingmedium. It contains a number of varieties which flower from earlyspring to late autumn, are very drought resistant and frost hardy, areperennial and keep their leaves in winter so it provides all year roundcover. You buy it by the square metre and it can be cut toshape. I don't know if the company would/could deliver to Francebut I think it would be worth giving them a call. On the sedumpart of the website you can download a PDF which gives the prices persq metre.Hope this helps! It sounds on the face of it a very good idea.Val Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russethouse Posted April 2, 2006 Share Posted April 2, 2006 The downside to sedums is that they are not that keen on being wet for long periods AFAIK, We have a ornamental container with some in and move it to under an evergreen tree in the winter to stop the plants rotting off.Have a look at http://www.uktvstylegardens.co.uk/index.cfm/uktv/StandardItem.index/aID/2190/.shtml, that offers a few suggestions though I suspect that a raised bed or two is still the best way to go, especially as David is a wheelchair user.(David should I have the drawing by now? ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
val douest Posted April 2, 2006 Share Posted April 2, 2006 Raised beds would certainly solve most of the problems, Gay, butI gather from David's previous postings that he is not in fact thegardener, and that this portion of the garden is not used at allbecause of the wind. The main objective is to make it look a bitmore pleasant from the window of the house with the minimum ofwork. Yes, I think you are right in that most sedums are not water-lovers and will 'rot off' if left in standing water for anylength of time. I thought that the sedum matting might work inthis situation because (since it has its own substrate and isindependent of the soil) it could be laid with something between it andthe ground, which I gather is only waterlogged for a couple of weeks ayear - maybe wire netting or even gravel. I'm sure the nurserycould advise.This has become a fascinating thread - I hope the problem is solved oneway or another and that David lets us know how it all works out.Val Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted April 6, 2006 Author Share Posted April 6, 2006 Thank you all so much for your help on this thread. I have now got back from the hospital in Tours (some 2.5 hours drive from home so we stayed a couple of days), and the news was not too good. It seems that I will not be rising from the wheelchair any time soon. Very depressing.Gay, thank you very much for your kind offer to post the drawing, but I think that it might be better not to post it. The thread had been a bit diverted from plants that might survive, to structural and drainage work. In reality, it now seems that we will not be bringing in any contractors to install drainage or raised beds, so any plan of garden drainage slopes would only be a red herring.We must make the best of what we have, and with the work that two old codgers, one in a wheelchair, can do.You have all given us some great ideas for plants. We are going down to the house again for Easter, and we will take your very kind suggestions to the local garden centre, which does seem excellent and helpful. They do not speak English, and my French is not too good so we have not been able to explain the problems to them properly. However, with the names of some plants we can make progress. We do not have internet access in Leucate,so I will report when we return.Thank you all.David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyh4 Posted April 6, 2006 Share Posted April 6, 2006 David,Just read this thread and am sorry to hear you are not going to be mobile for a while.don't give up just yet.In the pictures are there 2 manhole covers in the middle of your winter lake? If so what is down them?There may just be a very simple solution to your problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russethouse Posted April 6, 2006 Share Posted April 6, 2006 David, http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/mbgardening is the BBC gardening forum. You may find some helpful links etc there.If the water drained fairly quickly I wonder if Rosemary would grow, you can get lots of varieties, some fairly upright,some prostrate, and different shades of blue (and one white) flowers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted April 6, 2006 Author Share Posted April 6, 2006 Dear andyh4,Thanks for your post. The two manhole covers are actually outside our plot, and I think they are electricity junction boxes. The big grey boxes above ground are the electricity boxes and meters. Last time I looked at the manholes they seemed to have special unlocking bolts on them, and I could not open them. I will check next time we are down there.David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patf Posted April 6, 2006 Share Posted April 6, 2006 David - you mentioned that the flooding is mostly from the sea sois salt water. I expect this will limit the types of plants that willsurvive. As a child I lived on the NE coast and spent a lot of time onthe sand dunes and the beach. As far as I remember there wasn't muchplant life apart from a certain type of reedy grass, thrift, and abeautiful rose with prickly stems and large rosehips in the autumn.Occasionally the sea came up and covered parts of this area. I've alsoseen a type of thistle with yellow flowers growing on mostly sand. ButI don't know if these plants are available commercially. Eucalyptus has been used to drain coastal marshes in some parts of theworld eg Australia and Israel. Pat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russethouse Posted April 6, 2006 Share Posted April 6, 2006 I love Eucalyptus but I know a two households where the trees have been sighted as a cause of subsidence (or heave). Looking around our garden, a plant that has survived everything, and now resides half submerged in a pot in our pond, is a sedge, not exciting but it is green for most of the year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted April 6, 2006 Author Share Posted April 6, 2006 Dear Patf,Sorry I was not clear. No the flooding is not from the sea, but is rain water. The area is generally dry for most of the year, but in winter it can experience heavy rain, sometimes torrential. This water takes some time to drain and plants can be underwater for several days. Due to the generally dry nature of the area, when the soil (laugh, laugh) dries out, it goes like cement, and the locals use pickaxes as the first digging tool. The soil is very sandy, but I think that it must be mixed with something else for it to go so hard when dry. There is an element of sea water from wind borne spray. The garden plot in question gets no direct sun at all, but does have good natural light.On another matter completely, I wonder if anyone could advise me which thread to go to as I have researched the threads and cannot find the relevant matter. After my hospital visit I saw my French GP. He advised me to apply for a French incapicity card (or handicapee) including a car parking blue badge. He also gave me a prescription for a new leg splint and a new wheel chair. I have bitten the bullet, and will apply, but I wonder if anyone else has gone through this process, and if they have any advice or suggestions. It seems that I must be 80% disabled, which my GP says I am, and that I must go through several medicals taking some five to six months. I hasten to add that I do not wish to claim any monetary benefits from France.Many thanks,Davidp.s. Can anyone tell me how to post the smilies, or cartoon characters at the bottom of the page? I have ticked the blasted things, and then pressed the post box below them, to find that the typed missive posts itself before I am ready, and without the yellow thingy!p.p.s. While I am having a whinge, can anyone tell me why some pages come up far too wide to display fully on my computer? One particular post with this problem was uninstalling Norton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tresco Posted April 7, 2006 Share Posted April 7, 2006 David, look at this thread http://www.completefrance.com/cs/forums/580205/ShowPost.aspxThere are others. If you search using 'blue badge' or 'disability' you should find more.The smileys, you need to use the 'drop down list' to insert them, but before you do, roll the mouse over the smiley to find its name.The wide screen problem I only get when people post pictures that are too big. They haven't resized them. I have made this mistake myself.[:$] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patf Posted April 7, 2006 Share Posted April 7, 2006 Sorry to hear about your ill health David and hoping the news will bebetter next time. Hoping this won't depress you more! ......."Garden on clay, break your back. Garden on sand, you break your heart." If you were there permanently plants in pots would be best, asan earlier poster said. Pat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyh4 Posted April 10, 2006 Share Posted April 10, 2006 OK David,I thought the manholes were a bit too obvious as a solution, but if it does turn out to be a waste water manhole and the neighbour can be pursuaded...................... One thing is clear you must improve the drainage if you are to get out of the winter pool, summer dust bowl problem. I can only think of a few plants that could possibly exist in your environment as it is and they are none of them suitable to be planted close to houses, and to be honest I do not know if any of them would tolerate salt in the air from the sea. (Weeping willow and poplar - must be a minimum of 35m from any house, other wise its roots - searching for water in summer - will damage the foundations, Silver birch similar but could perhaps be a little closer to a building)Another question: I assume that all of the roofs on the adjacent buildings have gutters and down pipes and that the rain water on the roof is taken away underground. If not then that has to be tackled first, since it is adding to the problem. So assuming that is OK, then you need to contact the builder and find out roughly where his service (water, gas, electric and sewers)trenches were put; and you need to establish the low point in your garden (deepest puddle).At a point as close to the low point as possible, but avoiding the services, get a man to dig a hole 1m square and 1m 50 deep. Your builder may be prepared to do this himself for a fee and a man with a small digger should not take that long unless he hits solid rock. If you could make it 2m x 1m x 1,5m so much the better, but 1m square will take you a good way forward. The hole has to be lined with geo-textile fabric - sides and bottom. Fill the hole with river washed gravel - size around 2-5cm - filled to within 30cm of the top. Fold the geotextile over the top and provide a geotextile top. Fill the remaining hole with free draining soil = Your existing clay (2 parts) + grit or coarse sand (1 part) + peat (1 part). This is not the most ecofriendly method but in your situation peat is really the only way to break up the clay.You now have a sump that will hold the rain water - about 500litres. The geotextile acts as a filter keeping the soil out of the sump. You also have the benefit that when it starts to warm up you have a reservoir of water to keep the soil moist for a while. I cannot guarantee that this will totally cure the ponding, but it will take you a bis step forward. Once you have the water issue sorted you can think about improving your clay and planting out. In addition to the suggestions already made, you might like to consider planting an olive in the far corner of the plot. Good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted April 10, 2006 Author Share Posted April 10, 2006 Andy,Many, many thanks for your extremely helpful posting. I had thought of getting someone to dig a sump for me and filling it with stones, and you have told me how to do it. Unfortunately the downpipes from the guttering discharge above ground, as you so accurately say adding to the problem. At the other side of the house, they are contributing to severe erosion in the banking down to the sea, which is not concrete re-inforced.What is geo-textile fabric? I have not heard of this before. Do you know what this will be called in a French garden centre? This is exactly why I had not persued the idea of a sump hole, as I did not know how to keep the soil from filling up the spaces between the stones. I have a corner marked out for a hole already, and now I can tell the workmen what to do.I feel that this will be an economic project that we can afford, and that I can employ someone to do.We go down to the house this coming Friday, and I will persue this option.Many thanks Andy,David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russethouse Posted April 10, 2006 Share Posted April 10, 2006 David, Although the task my seem daunting, after you have tried Andy's plan, you do not have to deal with the whole site at once. If you took it gradually, improving say a quarter of the garden at a time, you would soon see a worthwhile result and that in itself is encouraging.Last year we completely re did our garden and we are really seeing the benefit now, even though there were times last year where we doubted our sanity ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyh4 Posted April 10, 2006 Share Posted April 10, 2006 Davida geotextile fabric can be found at the builders merchant - or maybe even the bricos - never had to use one personally so I have never looked. It is a bit like the fleece you use for protecting plants/warming up the soil in spring, but is thicker and much stronger. You must however do something about the downspouts because it is doubling (or more) the water ending up on the garden. Just channelling it away onto a paved and drained area will bring immense benefit. Unless you do this I doubt if my 1m square sump will be man enough for the job.I have to say that I am slightly surprised that this is allowed in a new build, but then it shows how little I know about French regulations. As a possible suggestion if you cannot channel the roof water away, consider having an underground tank to collect it and use it for watering the gardens. These systems are unfortunately not cheap and I saw a small one advertised at about 1200€ plus installation, but you do get the tank - which has to be strong enough for the weight of water plus the weight of earth, piping and pump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teamedup Posted April 10, 2006 Share Posted April 10, 2006 David, I just don't get this about the flooding. This is a new build isn't it and there should have been provision for every property they built to have good drainage, as the south of France does get torrential rain. In fact the commune/DDE should have made sure that this had been catered for in the plans. And the builders should sort it out. They have not catered for such a basic thing and they should have. I would have a chat to the builders. Then if I got not satisfaction then I would call in at the Mairie, followed by the DDE. And then maybe the DDASS or who so ever deals with inondations. The thing is that you have had a mini flood and your house so far hasn't been affected. But what if the rain is worse next time. As far as I am concerned all the other gardening, digging hole things are rather incidental to a bigger problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted April 10, 2006 Author Share Posted April 10, 2006 Dear Andy and Teamedup,Many thanks for your concerns. We have two down pipes which discharge into the flooded area. We can do nothing about this. Southern France building regs allow it. There is no way that we are going to take issue with the builders about the flooded area. I have pm'd Tresco in detail about this, and she agrees. I would copy the pm to you Tresco, but I do not know how to. Please accept that the builders have done all in their power, and they are assisting us far more than they need to in other matters which are far more important to us. We have agreed to accept the flooded area, and we need to make the best of what we have got.I just wanted some ideas for plants that might survive.Many thanks,David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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