when do your guests pay

[Miki]

[quote]Dear Quillan I have no giraffes but there are currently some llamas in the village square would they be of any use?? When I went to boulangerie this morning thought I had had too much Gaillac at the...[/quote]

Maggi,

On behalf of one secton of the "everyone else brigade" Do tell me how my our lives, or mine anyway are complicated please ?

We have things pretty much down to basics, as I have been explaining to those that may have read this thread, especially on how to take deposits and payments (and others who we have sent PM's privately). If you run a B&B, it is as a BUSINESS or what are you doing it for ? Pin money ? If so, sure one can be even more laid back, no arrival, just laugh and put the kettle on and watch the soaps and say "oh bother" and if it only to supplement a nice pension then then jolly good for them but in now way, mix it up with those in it for the business.

But if you are in this commerce for an annual income, you have got to get it right. That takes time, effort and money to do it properly. Once you have mastered all of that, it is pretty simple and I like to think we are now at that stage but it didn't come overnight.

We have a few friends in this game who are always complaining of lack of reservations in comparison to us, when we ask what they are doing about it, they can often say "not much we like to go out and can't be bothered" !!

We find those people with lack of effort or are just playing at the game, it too often reflects in their house, their rooms, their breakfasts and meals and in general the whole thing just seems so blasé and totally thoughtless and have no fear, you cannot run any business, B&B or not, if you just open the doors and put your hand out for their dosh !!

We also have no fears of runners, again read the posts.

There that's what I think, well you did ask..............

[Quillan]

Personally I take the attitude that it does not matter if you do something because you have to or because it for a bit on the side, it's a business and you should always run it properly. I can't sand those that do it for the pin money and don't take it seriously. Fortunalty most of those that do it for pin money do take it seriously. Those very few that don't show a bad example for those of us that try to do it proffesionally.

Having people who do a runner does not worry me either mainly because we have a quick and easy system in place to counter such an eventuality which is all you can do. We also have the same type of system in place to prevent us from 'no shows'. It's easy for us to use and transparent to the client, it is also very simple for client which is the main thing. Make it to complicated and nobody will book with you.

As to CC machines, US banks and alike I feel we will be going round in circles till the cows come home.

 

 

[Miki]

"As to CC machines, US banks and alike I feel we will be going round in circles till the cows come home."

So you have cows Chris ?

So why do you want Llamas, I know you want giraffes but the supplier has none of them at the present times but will keep a look out for any that come on the market. He wants to know if you will be paying by CC, Diners or Manhattan Int, Swift/Iban, readies in euros, dollars or pound sterling but will take green shield stamps, Cheque Vacances, gold bullion (stamped only by certain valuers), W.H.Y and will barter in turkish rugs. Let me know your choice...oh also paypal, nochex or world pay.....etc etc.. ooohh I'm getting dizzy

[Cerise]

Sorry Miki - didn't mean you - I meant it all lightheartedly

I apologise if I seem flippant, yes I do run this as a business and yes, as I say, I am sure that eventually someone will abuse my trust.  But, in the meantime most B & B s (CdH's call them what you will) are not huge affairs even if they are businesses and I think that many people, like myself, keep the administrative side of things as simple as possible.  You said yourself that you have hardly had any 'runners' and sometimes when I read on here, it seems to me that people are giving loads of thought to theoretical problems, where as my own life seems more tied up with practical ones, like am I ever going to get to the bottom of ironing mountain.

I am a quite lighthearted person and tend not to look for problems (that does not mean I don't take my business seriously).  We don't have a credit card machine and in practice have not had any serious problems with that, even with guests from Australia and USA.

Each of us runs our businesses differently and, of course I sometimes have difficult guests, but I never really expected it to be otherwise. In the real world no business is without its problems, as I am sure you, with much more experience than me, realise.

Once more apologies if I offended anyone - just think life is complicated enough without trying to work out all kinds of jiggery pokery that I could do with sundry payment systems.  When I go on holiday myself am happy enough to pay by whatever system the hotel/B & B suggests and so far my  guests have been the same.

Good luck to you all for the rest of the season.  This is the first day for ages that I have had time to post anything - and probably the last day for a while, so best get back to work.

Maggi

PS Quillan - Llamas have now been joined by troupe of performing geese - still no giraffe however.

 

 

 

 

[Quillan]

Miki - Actuall I wanted to pay by either Switch or Maestro, will that be a problem? I hear it is for some, something to do with the card being too long or was it the number? My head hurts, I'm totally confused.

Maggie - Can they fly, could they land on the top of the trees and eat their way down? Do they have red toe nails for the cherry trees?

[Miki]

"...Once more apologies if I offended anyone - just think life is complicated enough without trying to work out all kinds of jiggery pokery that I could do with sundry payment systems. When I go on holiday myself am happy enough to pay by whatever system the hotel/B & B suggests and so far my guests have been the same."

No offence taken taken Maggi.

And I completely agree, make payments too tricky and sure as eggs, some of the guests will naturally shy away. Without being or wishing to appear ageist, how many troisiéme age can really understand even the basics of the internet (yes sure there are exceptions but one needs all, if not most, to understand your modes of payment) let alone paying by this or that by way pushing this or doing that, punching in special codes and signs... no sorry, I am one for simplicity when it comes to guests booking. Give them the choice of a few simple ways to pay, explain fully how to, if you want them to be able to pay by Nochex or Paypal and bosh, that will do.....

Best, cash or chèque (French of course !) but to avoid any possible runners (rare indeed, this is after all B&B in France not Dodge city !!)always take deposits or full payments in advance.

Chris, are they the wrong colour but the size is Ok or is right colour, wrong size, I know a man who does though....................

[Yvonne]

We had a very respectable looking 'middle aged' couple turn up last month. They rang from a  mobile and booked 2 nights half board for the following 2 nights. They arrived, checked in and ate dinner  on the first night. They went off to bed and, when we got up the next morning, we realised they'd done a runner. I left a message on their mobile asking them to pay or I would contact the police. They din't call back so I contacted the gendarme. This was a rather long winded process (and, I though pointless, because all I had was a name and a mobile number).

Believe it or not, 2 days later, a cheque arrived to cover the cost of their stay. The local gendarme had traced them via Orange and had contacted them! That gave me  a lot of faith in the system and it also forced us to introduce a guest register - name address, phone number, car registration etc. Nobody gets a key without filling it in. Most don't mind but some guests feel it's a bit excessive.  We ask for payment as guests leave and take desposits when there's time for a cheque to arrive in the post.

Abi. 

[mascamps.com]

Wow this is a busy thread! Leave it alone for a few hours and you're two whole pages further on!!

Gay: The only "disputed charge" query that we've yet had is ironically from one of our reservation systems. They gave us the OK to charge their card for a no-show and then disputed it because it came up on their statement as "Stewart John" rather than "Auberge Mas Camps". I don't understand why the banks here can't list you on the cc statement as your business name as it confuses me and loads of other people too I'm sure.

We are actually OK re charging third parties so long as it's part of one of our packages. In our case, we have someone to run our walking tours and charge for his services along with everything else. Because it's part of our package, accidents on his part are covered by our insurance (they're also covered by his insurance).

Chris: Switch and Maestro aren't the same thing, despite the penguin ads. If they were, you'd not be able to use Switch for mail order transactions as Maestro is strictly for online or customer present transactions. Not all Maestro cards work over here for reasons which escape me as it's supposed to be an international card standard (no Australian Maestro card works here or in the UK). In terms of recognising cards, Amex starts with 3, Visas start with 4, Mastercards with 5. If it starts with a 6 it's Switch if it's a UK card although you will see some "Switch" cards with numbers starting 5  (as far as I know these work like "proper" (ie US-style) Mastercard debit cards and could be used on a customer not present basis).

Abi... brilliant!!! Following a bit of recent experience of the helpfullness of the gendarme I suspected that they would be equally helpful in following up on non-payers but you've provided the concrete proof that they'll do that. Being pessimistic, I'd be wary of just having a mobile number although you need proof of address even for prepaid ones here so I guess they'd be OK.

You can tell them that the police require you to keep these details. This is actually true (it's called a livre de police) and you should also have a passport number as well as the details you mentioned.

 

Arnold

 

[Quillan]

Being a bit of a maestro at all this Arnold and it seems you are really switched on with all the regulations I was sure you would have known that only none French nationalities have to show their visa and and put their details on the cards you get from the police station. The French don't have to do this. Many of the English who have come to run B&B's in France have not yet become a master of this art and are not always aware of these regulations. It's as easy as 3, 4, 5, 6 to get the forms from the police.

[mascamps.com]

I know that it says non-French in the rules Chris, but I suspect that's one of those that's been translated into "non-European" by the recent European laws. In the meantime, I suspect that French implementation of European law being somewhat flakey it might be best to record ID details for everyone as that way you'd not come across an awkward sod like me suing you for nationality discrimination.

On a totally unrelated front, is it a problem if your passport expires whilst you're in France?

 

Arnold

 

[Quillan]

"On a totally unrelated front, is it a problem if your passport expires whilst you're in France?"

If you are refering to yourself and living here then no. There is a thread in the FAQ section about how to get a replacement.

As far as people on holiday are concerned there may be an issue getting back to the UK but thats their problem.

PS. Couldn't resist the play on words .

[mascamps.com]

Too early in the morning for me to reply in kind Chris   Well, more that we've not yet caught up on our sleep since the wedding on Saturday.

Have to see about taking you up on that offer of a coffee once we get our head above water. Managed to call in with another of us transplants about a month ago; he's trying to form a little group to see about some joint marketing.

 

Arnold

 

[Quillan]

No problem.

Why have a dog and bark yourself. Join GDF and let them do it for you, they have more experience at marketing their members than anyone in France, they have been at it long enough and they get results.

[Miki]

"....Managed to call in with another of us transplants about a month ago; he's trying to form a little group to see about some joint marketing."

Are you selling drugs, hearts or what ?

Whatever you're on Arnold, I'll have a pint

[JohnM]

Apologies if this has already been stated, I've not been following it very closely as it doesn't actually affect me, so I've just had a quick flick through and not seen what I'm about to post (but I may be wrong 

There are cards which English banks issue to students and the like (I can't remember the names). These cards do not allow the user to have credit/ overdraft facilities, so can only be accepted by establishments which have "On Line Authorisation" (so that the bank has a fighting chance of checking that the user has got enough in their account, before agreeing to give you the money). I guess that some of the cards mentioned earlier in the thread are of this type. It is very very very important that you do not take this sort of card if you don't have OLA because YOU will loose out.  I used to work for a large retail organisation which lost a lot of money because a student convinced the till operators that we did take the card - he travelled miles to buy gift token at different stores - yet when the police finally collared him... they couldn't make a crime stick!)

 

[Yvonne]

For those of you who do take fulll payment on arrival.....what do you do if the guests have paid for a 5 day stay and, after 2 days, announce that they have to leave (usually due to tragic/ devastating circumstances, of course)?

I'm interested to know if you give all or some of the money back for  the lsot days. Being in a ski resort, we have a lot of this in winter if the snow isn't quite as good as guests had hoped or if, in fact, it is snowing!

We'd like to find a solution!!

Thanks,

Abi

 

 

[JohnM]

I would suggest that you smile sweetly and say "Oh dear, well if your travel insurance needs a letter from us confirming that we do not issue refunds unless we are able to relet the room, you will let us know wont you???"

 

[Alan]

Wrong John , or in my case anyway

 

I don’t take payment on arrival , but I do find that some guests wish to pay when they arrive , to save them carrying the money round with them

 

Back in june we had a couple book 10 days and after 5 days they decided to go home, they had paid me for the 10 nights on the day that they arrived. I offered them a refund for the nights not taken but the couple would not hear of it, they refused to take any money back and said that it was their choice and if they had booked a package holiday and half way through decided to go home the tour company would not give them a refund and therefore the same should apply with me, They said I had held their booking and could have easily turned bookings away because of them so they had no right to expect this money back from me. This is the first time in the 3 years we have been running this has happen, but I would always offer a refund for the nights not taken, maybe would feel differently if the excuse was down to the weather though.

 

[JohnM]

Good points. As a visitor, I hope I would do exactly the same as your guests did. If I were a host and guests had a good reason to need to leave, I hope I would do the same of you.

I was replying to a post that sugggested that people were moving on/out simply because of the weather. If people have a genuine reason to move on then their travel insurance would surely pay up? If they are just going because of weather, then I think it's a different kettle of fish.

 

[Quillan]

If a person comes and stays with us and halfway through their stay they decide to leave thats their problem (unless it's because there is a problem with our accomodation). I have taken the booking and allocated the room and in doing so I have made that room unavailable to others for that time period.

Once the person has left there is no garantee that I can relet the room so therefore why should I be out of pocket. If it's becuase of illness, death in the family etc then their holiday insurance will refund the money to them. If they don't have insurance then it's their problem. It's hard I know but so is life and we do this to make a living. Why should I suffer because of another persons problems. As has been said if you went away with Thomas Cook (for example) I don't think you would ge your money back in the same circumstances.

What would I really do if this happened? Probably take the money and if I do fill the room for the rest of their stay send them back their money but I would not be out of pocket.

[Maison<P> <P><P>jules<P><P><a target=_blank href=]

We run a BB in Le Lindois, and started to trade in June this year.  Everyone has to pay a deposit, or the full amount up front, pending how far away the booking.  Extras are written down and a bill is given at breakfast on the last day.  too date..... so far not had anyone not pay, have had people not turn up but as they have paid a deposit its not too bad.

As I am in the uk, it makes it a little easier, we accept paypal with a small charge or cheques, or if they are in europe they send their money direct to the B&B....... so hopefully we try and cover all angles

 

[Debra]

 We run a BB in Le Lindois.............................As I am in the uk........................

er - how do you do that?  Do you have a manager or something?

[okalani<P>Sarha<P><P>Okalani chambres et tables dhotes<]

We ask for 1/2 the total room rate as deposit, which is either payable by UK cheque or UK bank transfer into my UK Bank account.  The balance is then payable 4 weeks before arrival.  This is for all bookings for 5 days and over, for bookings for less time we just take the 1/2 room rate and then they pay the balance and any extras incurred, ie. meals etc at the end of their stay.

This means that people won't check out early or leave without paying!