Cheapest Solution

[Saucedecochon]

Sorry but I could not resist that pun.

Last summer my final guests left a formerly beautiful clear pool, filthy and en route to green. Following an "ete Indien" in September and early October, I was presented with a right pea souper when time allowed me to get over to attend to it in late November.

What to do? Chuck loads of Ph + Ph - Chlor choc, Salt (its an elecrolysis system normally), or any combination thereof at it?

Nope.

Just thinking about it and the costs of the above, I had a brainwave. (not too usual). First I applied a heavy dose of algicide, and left overnight.

I took out just over one third of the water that was in the pool, down almost to the shallow end floor, without compromising the tension of the liner, filtering and backwashing as it emptied, and gently brushing fallen algae into the deep end drain

Next day I over refilled with fresh tap water , working on the basis that the stuff we drink is as good as perfectly balanced (in fact our ph sample from the tap is better than ideal).

After another 2 days of constant filter and back wash. I had a virtually clear pool, which I then adjusted chlorine and ph, with the minimum of costly chemicals (about one mixed bucket of each), before covering and shutting down for winter.

The point being to all this is that balanced fresh water and four days electricity,is far cheaper and effective per cubic metre than any number of 50 Euro buckets of chemicals, once your pool has turned, and this new water will probably "unlock" the pool for the whole season ahead.

[Théière]

It worked good, [:)]

Examining what you actually did. Algicide, normally quatenary ammoinium, is not actually strong enough to kill off algae and that's the truth folks! it will help inhibit in a kind of insurance way if the chlorine drops too low.

You then drained approximately a third of the water and replaced with fresh tap water which has chlorine at approx 1-1.5 ppm (please do test your supply water and let us know) and that is what really did the work. There is some suggestion that the two chemicals together work well but just adding unscented bleach from a brico 18 euros for 20 litres would have done just as well and may cost less than water and algicde.

Now why didn't your Chlorine generator work properly in the first place?

[steve]

if you rent your property, do the guests do their own pool cleaning and maintenance?

Steve

[Poolguy]

[quote user="Théière"]

There is some suggestion that the two chemicals together work well but just adding unscented bleach from a brico 18 euros for 20 litres would have done just as well and may cost less than water and algicde.

Now why didn't your Chlorine generator work properly in the first place?

[/quote]

As well you know my dear Teapot

Asking self evident questions will always provoke the most obvious answers...' because they don't really work at all', is one answer.

'Because they are not an automatic system but a semi automatic system requiring intervention from time to time to correct the inevitable shortfall in sanitising chlorine production, which clearly wasn't there in the case of our unfortunate poster' could be another answer.

‘Because the pool is being operated contrary to the Dept health norm (DDASS) where it is absolutely forbidden to use salt electrolysis in a 'public pool', primarily for the above reasons’, could be another reason.

We agree naturally, that sodium hypo chloride (javel) is by far the most cost effective sanitizer, far more so that the cost of replacing the water. Coupled with an exemplar filtration media (in my case Zeolite) is the most cost-effective maintenance regime especially when paying guest are involved.

So our day continues and into another pool season where doubtless this argument will again be exercised with the same group of diehards (in denial) defending this outdated, polluting and ineffective technology.  Ho Hum

Andrew

[Polly]

Andrew, if the pool is only being used by one family then it isn't a shared pool, a piscine à usage collectif, 

and the DDASS rules don't apply.

If the OP is resident in one house and

sharing his pool with the family in the gite, or if the pool is used by more than one gite, it becomes a shared pool

and the DDASS rules apply

[Poolguy]

Polly

Thanks for your analysis and clarification.

As most of us know there are, as you suggest, boudaries to the definition of 'piscine public' under the DDASS rules, however I can tell you that sitting across the desk from the DDASS inspector responsible for dept 17, I learn that these are not necessarily his view point and that this year ALL registered gites (with pools) in his region will be inspected for water quality. Just how he will do that I do not know, perhaps they have had an injection of resources to manage this mamoth task.

And further it was he that coined the assertion that 'system du sel c'est interdit absolument' and that 'infractions (du norm) le piscine c'est fermme'. So if you want to debate the borders and applicable law then check with your locale Inspectorate DDASS I suggest for its they who decide  and not us. For me, I see no distinction between a pool where a fee is charged for its use albeit by one family and any other public pool. Water quality should be fit for purpose to an accepted norm, and as it is currently standing, Salt electrolysers are nowhere in that norm.

If you think that its worth taking the risk of inadequatly sanitised water for your own family, that is your own affair but its quite another thing to risk the health of another family who pay you to use a facility where there lies a strong chance of contracting an infection, just because of a misguided notion that your pool is safe because the water is blue. If anyone with a salt system which was left to its own were to test their water (with an photometer) 3 times per day throughout the season and make a record of the results then I am certain they would discover a trend showing that their water chemistry was nearly never within the required boundaries. The most dangerouse period being during the hottest part of the day (heaviest use period), meaning that it would then take the system to rest of the day and night to catch up - meaning that the pool is unsantitary during that time.  Its that simple and that is the main reason why the DDASS do not accept it. There is a list of accepted systems and these are there because they do work - all the time.

Cheers

Andrew

 

 

[Polly]

Andrew, firstly may I say that I do not have a pool, and I take offence at your intimation that I am risking other people's health. Would you please retract that comment.

Secondly I am well-versed in the law and I have spoken to DDASS agents in départements other than 17.

Thirdly, the practical interpretation of laws at the local level is always subject to variation, depending for example on the knowledge of the official(s) concerned and the means at their disposal (eg the N° of personnel available to effect controls).

[Poolguy]

Polly

I apologise for the offence it was not meant to be personal (even though on re- reading it seems that way). I should always remeber to write in the 3rd person. Sorry for that.

My remarks are a counterbalance to the plethera of advice sometimes levied here (not you) and elswhere (also not you) which direct novice pool owners along paths which are misguided, expensive and sometimes just plain wrong.

I've been called to help many people in this sitution, and witness 3 closures last year (over this matter). Its not cut an dry as you think, there is a lot or curious happenings.

Andrew

 

[Polly]

Thank you, Andrew.

I agree, it's all too easy to post without thinking.

[Saucedecochon]

Wow. I never new there were so many experts here. Fantastic replies too.

Reason the electrolysis never worked was probably low level of saline in the water. Just reopened and its still as clear as a bell, despite warm weather.

Added more salt, after usual opening up procedures, then re-covered it until we can struggle into it in our wetsuits and woolies. Mind with a bottom of "bassin" temp of 10 degrees even the algae can't function.

Last year was final year as gite so the group pool thing is an irrelevence - we are going to enjoy it ourselves from now on, rather than paying a company my life savings to visit once a week, and sit in it for a couple of hours annually.

With reference to responsible actions when disinfecting pools for "guests", I think it should be encumbent upon the guest who wants a pool holiday to pay for a 24 hour pool supervisor/lifeguard. My visitor who let it cook up a pea soup was no surprise. He had actually been to us for 3 weeks annually 3 years running, but it came as a big surprise when I met him last summer and he had never even opened the pool building door, never used the pool testing kits (3 offered), never used the robot, net, or brush, had no idea about filtration, backwash or any of the other management tools to ensure his own childrens health was maintained. He obviously just waited for our pool team to arrive on a Friday, to muck out after him.

Just a note, but when I am there the water is not only blue, but bang on all parameters for hygiene - I've taken the water to be tested for organisms, yes regularly!

I used to farm pigs, I don't want to live like them. I am however aware that everyone has their favourite system, normally to the exclusion of all others. I am also aware that tap water is chlorinated/fluorinated, hence engaging its help with cleaning and Ph-ing.

Like I say to my neighbours, "I may be English, but I'm not stupid"!

[Chezstevens]

In my current job, I am able to get 220v Pool Systems delivered at US mainland prices and postage.  Could somebody, I understand that this may not elicit a response from everyone, recommend a good make and model (that they have personal experience of) for the following:

1.  Salt system

2.  Direct injection system for Javel - I understand there are some models with weaknesses ref injectors.

I will then be able to make a decision on cost vs ease between above systems..

3.  Robot using 110v or 220v supply.

4.  Tester for water.

We are building a 12 x 6m pool using the Bloc system from Zyke.  We will upgrade the pump etc and hopefully opt for zeolite (sp).  Somebody may mention the warranty will not be valid - I can post it back at mainland US postage prices plus spares are easy.

Thank you

Vern

[Théière]

[quote user="Chezstevens"]In my current job, I am able to get 220v Pool Systems delivered at US mainland prices and postage.  Could somebody, I understand that this may not elicit a response from everyone, recommend a good make and model (that they have personal experience of) for the following:

1.  Salt system Pool Pilot
2.  Direct injection system for Javel - I understand there are some models with weaknesses ref injectors. Seko, Topline or Prominent.

I will then be able to make a decision on cost vs ease between above systems..

3.  Robot using 110v or 220v supply. The best you can afford, better ones have a remote control stearable system so you can drive it to the point you want to clean as they really don't have a brain that maps out your pool blah blah blah.
4.  Tester for water. One from Lovibond, Palintest or Hanna, Scuba+ from Lovibond is the best for features/accuracy and cost. Avoid Exactmicro, Aquacheck trutest and La motte colorQpro.

We are building a 12 x 6m pool using the Bloc system from Zyke.  We will upgrade the pump etc (how many skimmers and returns and is there a deep return as well as the shallow one and a floor drain?) and hopefully opt for zeolite (sp).  Somebody may mention the warranty will not be valid - I can post it back at mainland US postage prices plus spares are easy.

Thank you
Vern
[/quote]

[Chezstevens]

Mr T,

Thank you for your info, very helpful.  Pool will be flat bottom, with drain plus 2 skimmers.

Vern

[Théière]

Happy to help, designing in at the start is better than trying to mod afterwards. Hence look at the position of your returns, with one set deeper it really can help move the deeper water around mixing chemicals and pusing dirt towards the bottom drain.

[AnOther]

[quote user="Saucedecochon"]Sorry but I could not resist that pun.

Last summer my final guests left a formerly beautiful clear pool, filthy and en route to green. Following an "ete Indien" in September and early October, I was presented with a right pea souper when time allowed me to get over to attend to it in late November.[/quote]

To return to the OP, If you knew the pool was in trouble when the guests left you really should have attended

to it then, either yourself or by employing someone. If you were not actually there then how do you know they left in a state but even if they did, if you then knowingly left it for a further 2 or 3 months, it's eventual state can hardly be blamed on the guests can it ?

[Théière]

[quote user="AnOther"][quote user="Saucedecochon"]Sorry but I could not resist that pun. Last summer my final guests left a formerly beautiful clear pool, filthy and en route to green. Following an "ete Indien" in September and early October, I was presented with a right pea souper when time allowed me to get over to attend to it in late November.[/quote]

To return to the OP, If you knew the pool was in trouble when the guests left you really should have attended to it then, either yourself or by employing someone. If you were not actually there then how do you know they left in a state but even if they did, if you then knowingly left it for a further 2 or 3 months, it's eventual state can hardly be blamed on the guests can it ?


[/quote]

[quote user="Saucedecochon"] "I may be English but I'm not stupid!"[/quote]

[Poolguy]

[quote user="Chezstevens"]In my current job, I am able to get 220v Pool Systems delivered at US mainland prices and postage.  Could somebody, I understand that this may not elicit a response from everyone, recommend a good make and model (that they have personal experience of) for the following:

1.  Salt system - Cannot offer any comment
2.  Direct injection system for Javel - I understand there are some models with weaknesses ref injectors. - Chemigem no questions at all

I will then be able to make a decision on cost vs ease between above systems..

3.  Robot using 110v or 220v supply. - Tiger shark
4.  Tester for water. - Scuba +

We are building a 12 x 6m pool using the Bloc system from Zyke.  We will upgrade the pump etc and hopefully opt for zeolite (sp).  Somebody may mention the warranty will not be valid - I can post it back at mainland US postage prices plus spares are easy. Make sure that you put adequate circulation, filtration and santisiation. 2 skimmers is not enough (I would normally spec 4 for this size pool, bottom drain, 5 returns, and a prise balai) At 110m3 volume that you be 35M3/hr filter definatey Zeolite inside at least and pump 3cv at least. That means 75mm Pipe work (definately not 50mm)

Thank you
Vern
[/quote]

If you need clarification and design help then contact me by PM

Andrew

 

 

[Saucedecochon]

[quote user="AnOther"][quote user="Saucedecochon"]Sorry but I could not resist that pun.

Last summer my final guests left a formerly beautiful clear pool, filthy and en route to green. Following an "ete Indien" in September and early October, I was presented with a right pea souper when time allowed me to get over to attend to it in late November.[/quote]

To return to the OP, If you knew the pool was in trouble when the guests left you really should have attended

to it then, either yourself or by employing someone. If you were not actually there then how do you know they left in a state but even if they did, if you then knowingly left it for a further 2 or 3 months, it's eventual state can hardly be blamed on the guests can it ?

[/quote]

[Saucedecochon]

Er?

Interesting people on here. Never assume anything I think.

Not that I feel the need to explain my life in minute detail but.......

The reason it was left was that I took a trip down to collect the keys from them and prepare to close down. 3 day round trip therefore not much time to complete green pool work.

It was green when I arrived!September!

Quote - "when time allowed me to get over to it in November"

Like I said (quoted elsewhere), I'm not stupid, neither would I apportion blame sans certitude.

Hope thats clarified things, for An Other.