Lobbying !

[cooperlola]

Another MEP on our side, and very positive in her approach. 

"Thank you for your email expressing concern that the French government is
due to implement changes to the national health care system that will
adversely affect your ability to access medical treatment. I am concerned
that this situation has arisen and believe it needs addressing as a matter
of urgency by the European Commission.

Directive 2004/38/EC, which the French authorities are citing as
justification for the proposed changes, is concerned with 'the right of
citizens of the Union and their family members to move and reside freely
within the territory of the Member States'. It states very clearly that EU
citizens have the right of residence in another member state for a period of
longer than three months, as long as they have sufficient resources not to
become a burden on the host member state and have comprehensive sickness
insurance cover in the those member state.
Citizens residing in another member state for less than three months can be
granted social assistance, which includes health care, at the discretion of
the host member state. Once citizens have resided in France long enough to
be granted permanent status (5 years uninterrupted residency) any conditions
are dropped, because the legislation provides for equal treatment with
nationals ie the ability to access health care in the same way as French
citizens.

Directive 2004/38/EC was agreed in April 2004 and the French government had
to transpose it into national law by the end of April 2006 at the latest.
From the date of transposition you became responsible for ensuring that you
had comprehensive sickness insurance cover. In its most straightforward
sense, applying the law to existing UK citizens living in France is not
retrospective - laws change and in this instance the new law applies to all
existing and future residents from other EU member states, not just people
that enter France after the law has changed. Similarly, if France adopted a
law that said all citizens were required to eg pay a new tax, that would
clearly apply to all existing citizens, not just those that reached tax
paying age after the law comes into force.

However, the situation is complicated by the fact that you were obliged to
pay into CMU when taking up residence in France and were prevented from
taking out private health care insurance at the time. These rules mean that
effectively you have been paying into a system guaranteeing future health
care that you may not now be able to access - and that certainly seems
unjust.

The lack of clear information, and at times conflicting information, is of
considerable concern, so I shall be writing to both the Commission and the
UK government, who have a responsibility to provide accurate advice through
the British embassies in France, about this. I will also, of course, ask the
Commission to confirm the situation for all UK citizens living in France,
including E121 and E106 holders and with regard to EHIC,  as well as check
that the French national law properly reflects EU law. Most importantly I
will call on them to put pressure on the French authorities to introduce
additional measures in order that those residents that have already been
paying into CMU are guaranteed some kind of benefits equivalent to their
contributions.

Please be aware that, as far as I understand the situation, the French
authorities are entitled to change the system in this way. I do not,
however, believe that it is acceptable for UK residents to have been obliged
to pay into a system from which they are now not able to benefit and this
should be the main focus for action. The Commission may be reluctant to
press France to address this aspect of the problem, so I believe that it is
worth considering bringing a petition before the European Parliament.

All EU citizens have the right to do this about matters that form part of
the remit of the EU. As the relevant webpage advises:
 A petition may take the form of a complaint or a request and may relate to
issues of public or private interest.
The petition may present an individual request, a complaint or observation
concerning the application of EU law or an appeal to the European Parliament
to adopt a position on a specific matter. Such petitions give the European
Parliament the opportunity of calling attention to any infringement of a
European citizen's rights by a Member State or local authorities or other
institution.
Petition can be submitted by individuals or groups and, in this case, I
believe a group petition from UK citizens living in France is advisable. I
have received a number of emails about these changes and am willing to
facilitate the sharing of email contact details amongst other affected
people.

Finally, I would like to recommend the services provided by ECAS, who
undertake case work related to the free movement of citizens in the EU.

Thank you for raising this issue with me. As soon as I have a response from
the European Commission and/or the British government I will get back in
touch. In the meantime, if you would like to be put in contact with other
interested UK citizens living in France, please let me know. I hope the
websites below are useful and if you require any further information, please
do not hesitate to get back in touch.
Dr Caroline Lucas MEP
Suite 58 The Hop Exchange
24 Southwark Street
London SE1 1TY
Phone: 02074076281 Fax: 02072340183
Email: [email protected]
Website: www.carolinelucasmep.org.uk "

We are gathering momentum and have some good helpful people on our side so please keep up the good work.

[rothrugby]

Hi,

Just to let everyone know that the situation is being covered on the Jeremy Vine show Radio 2 Wednesday 10th October at 13.30 french time. Peter Owen of French Entree is doing the factual bit and Mrs Rothrugby will be the human interest story. Hope I don't let you all down!!

 

 

[mint]

Well done, will be glued to the radio!

[cooperlola]

Well done you, I'll record it.[:)]

[Sunday Driver]

Good news that Peter Owen is going to be on the programme.  He's way ahead of the rest of them in this respect, so we'll be sure to get the proper facts aired....

 

[Joshua]

Its great to hear that we are making progress with the five year rule and pre-existing illnesses.

In the letters I've been writing I'm asking that the criteria applied is that if you hold a Carte Vitale you are allowed to

join the French Health Service when the E106 entiltlement runs out.

 I'm assuming that no one would start to buy a house or make any long term commitments in France without sorting out their health cover

If this was applied and made common knowledge in the UK no one should "burn bridges" before leaving Britain.

I'm writing to the MEP's home addresses as well as emails, which might just get zapped. These are available from www.upmystreet.co.uk

I've no experience with private insurance. If you get a serious long term illness during a year of insurance, does it become a notifiable pre-existing illness when insurance renewal time comes round again and is then excluded from cover.

Joshua

[Nickel]

Good point about burning bridges!

I think it is safe to say that medical insurance will NOT cover the costs of recurrent,continuing or long term treatment of chronic medical conditions - even if they arise after you have taken out insurance!! If you can find a company that does - please let me know.

 

[cooperlola]

Joshua :

 
 I'm assuming that no one would start to buy a house or make any long term commitments in France without sorting out their health cover
If this was applied and made common knowledge in the UK no one should "burn bridges" before leaving Britain.

If anybody is getting their information from this article

http://www.responsesource.com/releases/rel_display.php?relid=34163&hilite

they won't be thinking that private health insurance is that much of a hassle!  It's dreadful to see people like this (who have such a profit motive and obviously don't want to see the tide of UK buyers in France stemmed) making it sound as if it's just a minor hiccup!

I've no experience with private insurance. If you get a serious long term illness during a year of insurance, does it become a notifiable pre-existing illness when insurance renewal time comes round again and is then excluded from cover.

That depends upon the company, some are better than others in this regard.  But certainly chronic conditions (asthma, diabetes etc) are not looked upon favourably after the first year.

[krusty]

[quote user="rothrugby"]

Hi,

Just to let everyone know that the situation is being covered on the Jeremy Vine show Radio 2 Wednesday 10th October at 13.30 french time. Peter Owen of French Entree is doing the factual bit and Mrs Rothrugby will be the human interest story. Hope I don't let you all down!![/quote]

Just to remind people to tune in........thanks rothrugby

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio2/shows/vine/

[Russethouse]

If it's a phone in - phone in !

[rothrugby]

Re Jeremy Vine radio interview- I've just been told it's been cancelled. They are doing an outside broadcast from Paris in November so will probably cover it then. Looks like something they considered more important came up. Oh well!

[cooperlola]

Shame R/R, but that's the way with the media.[:(]  Keep us in touch if this happens next month.

[rothrugby]

 

I've just reviwed this letter from Caroline Lucas. Does anyone out there intend to follow thsi part up or not?

The Commission may be reluctant to
press France to address this aspect of the problem, so I believe that it is
worth considering bringing a petition before the European Parliament.

All EU citizens have the right to do this about matters that form part of
the remit of the EU. As the relevant webpage advises:
 A petition may take the form of a complaint or a request and may relate to
issues of public or private interest.
The petition may present an individual request, a complaint or observation
concerning the application of EU law or an appeal to the European Parliament
to adopt a position on a specific matter. Such petitions give the European
Parliament the opportunity of calling attention to any infringement of a
European citizen's rights by a Member State or local authorities or other
institution.
Petition can be submitted by individuals or groups and, in this case, I
believe a group petition from UK citizens living in France is advisable. I
have received a number of emails about these changes and am willing to
facilitate the sharing of email contact details amongst other affected
people.

[cooperlola]

Rothrugby, our little lobby group is coming a long nicely and we hope to have a website up and running shortly.  I've written back to Caroline Lucas and we'll hope to liaise with her once we've got a proper strategy agreed and worked out.

If anybody is interested in helping us out, please e-mail me.

[rothrugby]

I've just looked at the ECAS website at www.ecas.org. A site for an EU organisation to assist in free movement of EU nationals. Very interesting as it clearly details the provisons of Directive 2004/38/EC and states very clearly the 5 year rule. I have e mailed them to see if they can help to ensure thsi rule is covered in teh French application of the directive. Why don't we all E mail them?

[Glyn]

rothrugby,

I notice that in the link you provided it states:-

'However, until the right permanent residence has been aquired, the host member state is not obliged to grant entitlement to social security to persons other than employed or self-employed...'

I think that we are hoping that this means that once aquiring permanent residence (ie after 5 years) we would be entitled to social security.

My question is do we know that when the directive mentions 'Social Security' this includes health cover and not just things like unemployment.

Glyn

[Tony F Dordogne]

And from the French newpapers and the Herald Tribune of today:  The Belgians are also going to start implementing the 5 years rule and will be using the same EU legislation to restrict access to the Belgian health system for immigrants and non actifs.

[krusty]

sorry to read the Jeremy Vine story has been dropped , I have used the BBC on line form to register my disappointment.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio2/shows/vine/contact.shtml#form

[cooperlola]

Tony, I had heard this, also about Holland.  It is the reason why Mary Honeyball and others are approaching this as a Europe-wide problem.  Any thoughts about upping sticks and finding a member state which will not apply rules like these begin to shrink. Unless you look at newly admitted states who were expected to agree to apply universal state healthcare to all Europeans, before being allowed entry.  Ironic, or what?

[makfai]

[quote user="Tony F Dordogne"]And from the French newpapers and the Herald Tribune of today:  The Belgians are also going to start implementing the 5 years rule and will be using the same EU legislation to restrict access to the Belgian health system for immigrants and non actifs.[/quote]

The EU Directive which underpins this (2004/38/EC) applies to all member states.  UK has already introduced it  UK Legislation: Statutory Instrument 2006 No. 1003 The Immigration (European Economic Area) Regulations 2006 http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2006/20061003.htm#13

It would be useful to monitor how each member state is applying it.  Fore example, does Belgium apply it to existing residents?  As far as UK goes we have heard nothing.  I have asked all the MPs & MEPs how this applies in UK and not had a single reply.

 

[rothrugby]

Hi,

Just recieved the following from my Euro MP, Glenis Wilmott

 

 

Mr A.J. Ackland 

 

 

Our Ref: GW/PC/ACKL01001/01071107

 

 

 

05 October 2007

 

 

 

Dear Mr Ackland,

 

Thank you for your recent letter concerning French health reforms.

 

I have written to the European Commissioner for health, Markos Kyprianou, on your behalf and will write to you again when I have a reply.

 

 

Best wishes

 

 

 

Glenis Willmott MEP

 

 

[Chassaing]

If the UK PMs won't sort the story attached, what  can be done for a few French Expats?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml;jsessionid=N0BJB0203DQKPQFIQMFCFF4AVCBQYIV0?xml=/news/2007/10/11/ncdiff111.xml

Regards

[Chassaing]

[quote user="lebois"]

If the UK PMs won't sort the story attached, what  can be done for a few French Expats?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml;jsessionid=N0BJB0203DQKPQFIQMFCFF4AVCBQYIV0?xml=/news/2007/10/11/ncdiff111.xml

Regards

[/quote]

I'm sorry everyone,  but letting people die in UK hospitals and UK Citizens in France is unacceptable.  It is about time MPs were in court for Manslaughter as well, perhaps the laws would be more carefully worded to protect people.  Please keep lobbying!  We need to shout louder.

[Chassaing]

Hi Everyone,

Here is another opportunity!  Tell all your friends and family.

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/healthinFrance/

Regards

[LisaJ]

Bump