"French Health Issues" Website Launch

[cooperlola]

We have today added a "Breaking News" section.

Keep looking, and thanks again for everybody's support.

http://www.frenchhealthissues.eu/latest_news/growing%20support%2024-10.htm

 

[Sunshine]

Being a holder of an E106 that expires on the 5th with a pre existing condition I am so grateful for your continued efforts on behalf of others in a similar situation to me.

Mid December we went into to CPAM and applied for CMU with a letter taken from your website.  Towards the end of the month we went back to check on the progress in a very polite manor.  The lady was really shirty, jumped out of her seat and said she would get our refusal letter immediatley, and told us there is no right of appeal!  5 minutes later she came back to say our case was being looked into but we would here something soon.  Oh and if we wanted to appeal we could!.  This was the first unhelpful person I have met in that department.  We still have not had a reply but this is to be expected with all the festive holidays. 

I have just seen your CMU refusal letter - AGAIN- on your website and will certainly use it if I am refused entry.  I will also ask the Marie to support us along with my Dr,  I thought this may add a little more weight should I have to make an appeal.

Thank you soooo soo much for your help and support.

As I have so many problems with the Living France forum website, I now check your French Health website first.

 

[groslard]

The problem with the site is that is riddled with inaccuracies..so it can't be taken seriously!

[cooperlola]

Well please let us know what they are then we can put them right.  Otherwise your remarks are a little pointless.

[groslard]

Here or there?

I have already posted a more balanced view:

The standard  ways of getting Health Cover in France are by paying

contributions, not by right of residence, as with the NHS in the UK

The

CMU is not the normal way of obtaining cover, and is not synonymous

with the NHS. There was a atypical period between 2000 and 2007, when

British immigrants were allowed into it, but for those who arrived

before and those will will arrive after that period , that is not the

case.

EMPLOYED

If you are employed, and pay the

appropriate cotisations, then you can enter or remain in the French

system and will enjoy the same rights as a French national, similarly

employed.

BUSINESS

If you run a registered business, and

are paying cotisations, you can enter or remain in the French system

and will enjoy the same rights as a French national running a similar

business.

THE  RETIRED

Anybody who has an E121 is unaffected.

THE EARLY RETIRED

Anybody

arriving in France with an E106, or anybody currently on an E106, will

benefit from  healthcare  paid for by the UK for the duration of the

validity of their E106.  Immediately after this time the UK will no

longer pay.  They will then have to take out full private health

insurance, to cover them until UK state pensionable age and/or receipt

of an E121.

This insurance must comply with the French specifications, detailed here

http://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/WAspad/UnArticleDeCode?code=CSECSOCL.rcv&art=L321-1

Anybody

with a pre-existing or chronic medical condition, may appeal to be

allowed to join the CMU.  The conditions for these appeals are clear. 

Anybody whose appeal is successful on this basis, will also get cover

for their dependents.

Anybody contributing to, or benefiting from, the CMU up to and including 23.11.07 will now be able to remain with it.

Anybody arriving in France without an E106 will have to take out private insurance immediately.

French insurance companies are beginning to offer full health care packages.

FRENCH RESIDENCY

After 5 years permanent, legal and uninterrupted residence, guaranteed entry into the CMU.

 SIGNING ON

There

is potential to "sign on" as unemployed in France. If you have already

worked  and paid enough contributions  to enter the system  this may

qualify you for benefits through the French system (CMU)  However, this

is dependent upon financial and employment status so may be of limited

interest.

[makfai]

Which bits on the FHI site are wrong?

 

By the way...UK is not just a residence criterion as you will see from the FHI site.

[Russethouse]

There was a atypical period between 2000 and 2007, when British immigrants were allowed into it, but for those who arrived before and those will will arrive after that period , that is not the case.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing !

[groslard]

But the site implies that it is true for all of us here before 2000..which is not the case..

Perhaps foresight for those of us who bothered to work and get into the system wasn't so bad either..

[groslard]

[quote user="makfai"]

Which bits on the FHI site are wrong?

 

By the way...UK is not just a residence criterion as you will see from the FHI site.

[/quote]

a simple example: "Until 1st October 2007, UK nationals wishing to become

resident in France were obliged, under French law, to affiliate, and where

appropriate, contribute to the CMU.  Comprehensive health insurance was not

even an option. "

Absolutely not true!

I paid Private Health Insurance from 1995 to 1998, when I qualified for the Sécu (NOT the CMU) by cotisations..

And I have never been affiliated to the CMU.

[Russethouse]

Where ?

The fact is that many Europeans came to live in France on the basis of existing French regulations. What ever your thoughts, mine are that it is morally bankrupt and discriminatory to change the goal posts in such a way that it affects the sick and could endanger life, without putting a safety net in place. It is further discriminatory and illogical to penalize those who you actually have to support for 2 years less than other Europeans.

 

[groslard]

This is a UK problem, not a French one.

[groslard]

[quote user="Russethouse"]

Where ?

T It is further discriminatory and illogical to penalize those who you actually have to support for 2 years less than other Europeans.

[/quote]

Other Europeans pay for their Health care..

[cooperlola]

Groslard - I understood your notes above referred to the post which was entitled "the Story so Far" and in the sub forum entitled "Changes to the Healthcare System CMU, Cartes Vitales" and was therefore intended as a summary of the rules and the way in which they affected people who were previously allowed to subscribe to the CMU as pre-retired non French European Union citizens. They are not intended as a summary of the French healthcare system - that is dealt with in the main Health forum and FHI have never had any input into that.  Therefore, having read the post again, I still do not believe that it is inaccurate, given its context.

Likewise, the first sentence on our site says:

"French Health Issues is committed to bringing you as up to date as we can with all the facts and news relating to changes to healthcare provisions for UK nationals, resident in France, or planning to move to France."

It is not, and has never been, intended as a guide to the healthcare system in France - it is about ways of dealing with the new regulations and finding alternatives for those affected, and challenging the French Government's interpretation of European residency legislation - which it has used to bring in the new rules.  I don't believe anybody has said that the CMU is like the NHS, have they?

But as said above, we rely on information received, so if you find any errors on the site, then do let us know.

[cooperlola]

[quote user="groslard"][quote user="Russethouse"]

Where ?

T It is further discriminatory and illogical to penalize those who you actually have to support for 2 years less than other Europeans.

[/quote]
Other Europeans pay for their Health care..
[/quote]Other Europeans who are early retired will generally be allowed to continue to pay into the CMU as they won't have had the "benefit" of E106s so they're mostly fine.

btw, FHI is rather more accurate than the French health system's own website which continues to suggest that newly arrived non  French European pre retired citizens can still join the CMU if they wish!  Maybe you'd care to write to them too?

[Will]

[quote user="groslard"]This is a UK problem, not a French one.
[/quote]

How can it be? Britain hasn't changed anything - it's the French that have changed things, according to them, in line with European residence rules.

In fact Britain is far more generous to its early retired by giving them a nominal two years of E106 cover. Few other countries offer that.

[groslard]

[quote user="Will"]

[quote user="groslard"]This is a UK problem, not a French one.

[/quote]

How can it be? Britain hasn't changed anything - it's the French that have changed things, according to them, in line with European residence rules.

In fact Britain is far more generous to its early retired by giving them a nominal two years of E106 cover. Few other countries offer that.

[/quote]

Well the problem is that Britain doesn't cover people between the end of the E106 and the start of the E121.

That is a British decision .

I personally am lobbying for the end of both these allowances, since they are illogical given that NHS cover is for people 'normally resident in the UK'

I hope a future Government  will take the bull by the horns and cut off all allowances from people who have decided to cut  themselves off from Britain, and who are the only retirees in Europe who expect to have a first-class Health Service, into which they haven't paid all their working lives, and for which they don't pay now

[Cat]

Thank you for explaining your agenda Groslard, people will understand where you are coming from a little better now.

[groslard]

It's not an "agenda" its logical.

I have always detested freeloaders

[makfai]

[quote user="groslard"]It's not an "agenda" its logical.
I have always detested freeloaders
[/quote]

 

I do not understand how people who contribute to the CMU on the same terms as other French residents and who pay local and national taxes are freeloaders.

 

[Bugsy]

[quote user="groslard"]

I personally am lobbying for the end of both these allowances, since they are illogical given that NHS cover is for people 'normally resident in the UK'
I hope a future Government  will take the bull by the horns and cut off all allowances from people who have decided to cut  themselves off from Britain, and who are the only retirees in Europe who expect to have a first-class Health Service, into which they haven't paid all their working lives, and for which they don't pay now
[/quote]

You may like to take the trouble to do a little research on the facts regarding cross border funding before making such an incorrect, emotive and sweeping statement.

[cooperlola]

But that would take all the fun out of it, Gary.  Never spoil a good story for the sake of the truth, as my Dad always used to say.  All those euros I paid into the CMU last year were a figment of my imagination, I reckon.

[makfai]

[quote user="groslard"][quote user="Will"]

[quote user="groslard"]This is a UK problem, not a French one.
[/quote]

How can it be? Britain hasn't changed anything - it's the French that have changed things, according to them, in line with European residence rules.

In fact Britain is far more generous to its early retired by giving them a nominal two years of E106 cover. Few other countries offer that.

[/quote]
Well the problem is that Britain doesn't cover people between the end of the E106 and the start of the E121.
That is a British decision .
I personally am lobbying for the end of both these allowances, since they are illogical given that NHS cover is for people 'normally resident in the UK'
I hope a future Government  will take the bull by the horns and cut off all allowances from people who have decided to cut  themselves off from Britain, and who are the only retirees in Europe who expect to have a first-class Health Service, into which they haven't paid all their working lives, and for which they don't pay now
[/quote]

If you look at ‘Statutory Instrument 2006 No. 1003 The Immigration (European Economic Area) Regulations 2006’ you will see that your interpretation of NHS cover for people being based on normally resident is not correct.

 

The E106 is an EU wide 'form' not exclusive to the UK.  As regards the UK's arrangements, the 'non-employed' version of the form is granted to people who could still get UK short-term Incapacity Benefit if they claimed it. Once their entitlement to claim that benefit expires they are no longer entitled to the E106.  To qualify for the entitlement the person must have paid either employed or self-employed NI contributions over the last two complete contribution years.  So, having paid contributions and other taxes, the recipients are not freeloading from the UK government when they are granted an E106.  It simply certifies that they are entitled to UK short-term Incapacity Benefit if they claimed it

 

As regards freeloading in France, the UK pays France a sum for EU Citizens with an E106 from the UK living in France to cover healthcare costs so they are not 'freeloading' in that respect.

 

What exactly is it that you are trying to stop?

 

[powerdesal]

[quote user="groslard"][quote user="makfai"]

Which bits on the FHI site are wrong?

 

By the way...UK is not just a residence criterion as you will see from the FHI site.

[/quote]

a simple example: "Until 1st October 2007, UK nationals wishing to become

resident in France were obliged, under French law, to affiliate, and where

appropriate, contribute to the CMU.  Comprehensive health insurance was not

even an option. "

Absolutely not true!

I paid Private Health Insurance from 1995 to 1998, when I qualified for the Sécu (NOT the CMU) by cotisations..

And I have never been affiliated to the CMU.

[/quote]

Are you saying that private health insurance was an allowable option after the 2000 ruling?

My understanding is that early retired immigrants from UK had, BY LAW, to be affiliated to the CMU and that PHI was not allowed. Am I wrong?

A simple yes or no to each quesion will suffice.

[Tony F Dordogne]

[quote user="groslard"]It's not an "agenda" its logical.
I have always detested freeloaders
[/quote]

It only seems to be logical to you groslard and many people here may detest your aggressive and combative tone in many of your postings.  Mods, I'm offended by this comment - so does it contravene the rules for this Forum?

[Sunday Driver]

Groslard is quite entitled to detest freeloaders and I'm sure his right to express that preference does not contravene the forum rules.

However, it is clear from his posts that he has totally misunderstood the facts of the situation, so he has been directing his comments at the wrong people...[8-)]