M.R.S.A. Superbug - does it exist in French hospitals?

[Lyndford]

Out of a matter of interest, and because we are relocating to France early in 2005, I was wondering whether the M.R.S.A. superbug is as rife in France's hospitals as it is in the U.K., and, if so, whether the French are winning the battle more effectively than here in the U.K.??

Lyndford aka Liz (moving to 47)

[SaligoBay]

Yes it does exist in France.  This site:

http://www.biomedcentral.com/1471-2318/3/5

even says that France has one of the highest rates of it in the European Union.  There are lots of other hits if you do a Google search on MRSA Superbug France or similar.

The problem is that it gets over-reported in the UK and under-reported in France.  In France, an MRSA death probably won't even make it into the Faits Divers with the squashed dogs! 

[BJSLIV]

If I remember correctly Guillaume Depardieu (Gerard's son) was infected in hospital after a motorbike crash, and had his leg amputated because of the infection, not as a result of the crash. he subsequently set up a charity to campaign on the issue, wrote a book about his experiences, and sued the Government.

[Pucette<P><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3>Pucette<FONT><P><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt">"Qui ne connaît pas la campagne lhiver, ne connaît pas la campagne et ne connaît pas]

According to a programme on France Inter this summer France has alarmingly high rates of antibiotic-resistant bugs in its hospitals because of unnecessary (indeed counterproductive) routine use of said antibiotics.

[Jon 1]

I recall that Sweden has such low levels of MRSA it is statistically not worth reporting.  If they can achieve this, why not elewhere in Europe?

I also have a consultant friend who told me that medical professionals who apply for posts in N.Z. must submit to an MRSA screening test.  They cannot obtain employment until they are cleared of MRSA.

S.B. is correct, in that the French tend to under-report or ignore certain problems.  BSE is just such an example.  I often wonder over the validity of different French statistics.

However, they are also quite secretive in the UK.  In my home area the hospital will not release details on which wards and specialisms are affected.  They simply provide crude statistics of changing MRSA levels over time.  The Government is complicit in this secrecy.

It is quite worrying that you may elect for minor treatment that is not all that invasive and end up with something a lot worse than the original problem.

 

[hoverfrog]

you are right about under-reporting or ignoring of certain problems - my friend is a vet and the head of her practice is invoved in the european body responsible for BSE management. According to him, the french vets routinely record death from BSE as from other causes which of course skews all the statistics for the disease... although this is probably not surprising when you realise that until recent legislation most of the 'old' milkers (i.e 3 yrs+) were sold within the EU! Hmm, let's see, cows don't exhibit any signs of BSE until over a certain age... and we've been selling off all our old cows to our neighbouring countries!

[Stephenm]

I work for a company supplying pumps for dispensing ethanol alcohol based hand disinfectants. I can confirm the most European countries, including recent EC entrants, together with many other markets worlwide, are reacting to the MRSA bug by stepping up hospital hygiene.

The UKcurrently leads the way with a plan to have a hand cleanser next to each hospital bed, but France and Germany are close on their heels. Indeed France is our largerst market after the UK

Of course this does not mean that the MRSA risk is any less in France, but it does indicate they are aware of the problem and taking steps to deal with

Stephnm

[Iceni]

Regarding the post by Stephenm, I actually find this interesting as in the 70's when my daughter was in hospital we had to wash our hands with hibitaine (?sp) before going into the small wards. This tailed off and when John was in hospital in 2000 the only sink was filthy and patients drinking glasses were washed in it... I used to clean it with paper towel and then wash my hands - the small ward opposite him held a patient with MRSA. The 'used' urine bottles were stacked on the floor - made of compressed paper they did leak after quite some time and also smelt. He was not able to walk so had to use these.

Washing hands is one attempt at controlling these bugs, but basic hygene was totally lacking. I used to be a lab technician and so spent a lot of time in hospitals and wards when Matron ruled. You could have eaten your dinner off the floors and the windows were clean and bright. When my daughter was last in the carpets were filty and stank - and that was not that long ago.

MRSA is now outside hospitals and in the general environment, affecting mainly sports people, children and young people. In the US which is the only place I have seen any statistics it causes death in previously fit healthy individuals. It is not just a 'hospital and institutional' problem any longer.

[Kaf]

Hi

Don't know about the general situation in France as a whole ,but I can speak from personal experience.

My mother has had two major operations in the last year, one in the UK and then as an emergency here in France while she was on holiday with us.

While she was in hospital here, we visited every day, and every day we saw the wards being thoroughly cleaned, (by the nursing staff) all staff using handwashes, wearing white coats or other uniforms, and at the end of the week, which was obviously the day they turfed out as many patients as possible, the beds were actually taken out of the rooms, the rooms were thoroughly cleaned and there was a pervading smell of discinfectant which I haven't smelt in a Uk hospital for many years.

In The UK none of the above applied.

All I can say is that if there is MRSA here, (and I'm sure there must be) the authorities seem to be taking preventative measures a lot more seriously

[Downunder]

[quote]HiDon't know about the general situation in France as a whole ,but I can speak from personal experience.My mother has had two major operations in the last year, one in the UK and then as an emergency ...[/quote]

It certainly exists here in Victoria, Australia and caused many deaths which have not been reported.  My husband's mother died 30 years ago with it and I worked in a country hospital for 15 years where only when it was time for accreditation did we see any real cleaning.  I was in hospital last year and ended up cleaning the toilet, used by male and female, in the ward at weekends as no cleaning staff are available on those two days.  I also witnessed a senior nurse emptying a bedpan, not washing her hands and coming to my bed to change a dressing.  I absolutely dread the thought of having to go into hospital here and was really hoping France might be more up to date with it's cleanliness.  I've heard such glowing reports from friends who have had the misfortune to go into hospital there so perhaps it's not quite as big a problem as elsewhere in the world but aproblem nevertheless.unsure:

[SaligoBay]

Downunder, French hospitals do seem clean enough.

Unfortunately, in the case of MRSA, it just means that the bugs shake themselves and walk off clean and fresh to fight another day. 

I don't know why MRSA is here, but it is. 

As Pucette pointed out, there's the issue of overuse of antibiotics (there's a TV campaign on right now based on the French public's belief that "if you're not on antibiotics, you're obviously not ill").

I'm sure the entire aircon/heating systems aren't thoroughly overhauled and disinfected every day either.

Another little news difference - I remember hearing on the national news in the UK that, say, someone had died of Legionnaire's Disease in A.Hospital.   I thought it was something rare.  Now on LOCAL radio here I hear reports of an LD death here, another couple there.  But is it in Le Monde or Le Figaro?   Perish the thought!   

[Iceni]

Legionella is in the wild and may even be in your shower head if you use it daily and never run very hot water through it. It is a form of pneumonia. Statistics for US below (they seem far more ready to give stats than any other country - so sorry to use them and not ones more relevant).

USA - Between 8,000 and 18,000 per year. Outbreaks of Legionnaires' disease receive significant media attention. However, this disease usually occurs as a single, isolated case not associated with any recognised outbreak. When outbreaks do occur, they are are usually recognised in the summer and early fall, but cases may occur year-round. About 5% to 30% of people who have Legionnaires' disease die.

It normally infects the elderly or those already suseptable and does not seem to be passed from person to person but is airborne.

France's worst outbreak: 85 cases, 13 deaths, Jan. 2004
France's worst outbreak of Legionnaires' disease has infected 85 people and killed 13, most of whom resided in or visited an area to the east of the town of Lens, in the northern part of the country. On 4 January the French government shut down a petrochemical factory after tests revealed that the strain of Legionella found in the plant's cooling tower matched the strain found in at least 14 of the victims. http://legionella.info.ca/08jan04.html

I wonder how many cases there are of resistant TB? Now that really worries me