60 years plus & moving to France

[french knocker]

My partner and I are considering moving to France early next year. She is 68 years and I am 61 years.

She is in receipt of a UK state pension whereas, of course, I am not. We understand the need for the E121 and E106 forms respectively.

However can anybody clarify the following 4 issues please.

1  Because my partner is a UK pensioner will she receive any extra cover/provisions within the French system or will she still have to obtain top up insurance?

2  If there are special provisions for pensioners do they also apply to me as her unmarried partner, i.e 'can I attach myself to her coat tails' and get the same benefits?

3  Together with the French equivalent E111 do French top up insurances [Mutuelle] cover medical expenses for visits to the UK or would we have to obtain a French equivallent of travel insurance?

4  I will not be working in France [or any where else for that matter] and will not receive my UK state pension before my E106 runs out. How do I stay in the French system if I am not contributing to it? I  receive an occupational pension.

Lots of questions, hope somebody can help, Thanks

 

 

 

[Ron Avery]

1 Because my partner is a UK pensioner will she receive any extra cover/provisions within the French system or will she still have to obtain top up insurance?

No, she will not have to pay into the French health care system provided she gets an E121 from the UK, but that only covers her for a proportion of health charges and a top up is certainly recommended.

2 If there are special provisions for pensioners do they also apply to me as her unmarried partner, i.e. 'can I attach myself to her coat tails' and get the same benefits?

Yes you can attach yourself to her coat tails for health care, see the other post about this, but if you are not married it can cause all sorts of other problems with inheritance if you are buying a house here, if you have dependents.

3 Together with the French equivalent E111 do French top up insurances [Mutuelle] cover medical expenses for visits to the UK or would we have to obtain a French equivalent of travel insurance?

You should be covered for most things by a French Euro Health card, but travel insurance would cover all possible expenses in the UK

4 I will not be working in France [or any where else for that matter] and will not receive my UK state pension before my E106 runs out. How do I stay in the French system if I am not contributing to it? I receive an occupational pension

You do not need an E 106, as your partner’s E 121 will cover you.  You would not as a couple pay into the French Health care system as such but you will pay tax on your UK pension if it is over a certain amount and social charges on any unearned income such as interest.

---

Ron in the Avey-ron

 

[Opalienne]

I am not sure that the answer to question 1 is correct.   My husband is a UK pensioner and was rather surprised to find that he is covered 100% in the French system - apparently because he is in receipt of a pension.  He was told by the CPAM that the UK government pays a sum to the French government each month in order to pay for his medical treatment, whether he needs it or not.   I am not on his Carte Vitale, since I am not resident in France, so cannot answer question 2.

[Ron Avery]

"I am not sure that the answer to question 1 is correct"

 From the expert Les Lauriers in the Legal forum.

" Benjamin, an E121 provides the normal "French" cover of 65/70% ish, and covers partners.

The 100% cover is only for certain medical conditions it is not E121 related" 

AND from another Forum

..... "go to CPAM taking your E121 with you as well as your passport and proof of address.  This will entitle you to the same treatment as other residents of France. As you probably know, this means you are still liable for about one third of the cost in most medical situations, so you will need some kind of top-up insurance.

 Anyone know the definitive answer, I'm too young to know!!!

 

.

[Opalienne]

This is certainly what I had always understood, but my husband is definitely reimbursed 100% and he has no serious or long-term medical conditions.

[Ron Avery]

Silly question I  know, but do you have a top up insurance?

 If so you would get your money back, if not I don't know why your husband gets his money back, a quirk of th French system I suspect [:)]

[Russethouse]

Are you sure that unmarried partners qualify ?

[Opalienne]

No, we have no top up insurance.   We were going to take one out and discovered (luckily) that he was 100% covered before we did so

[hardhat]

you have to become pac sed to get the same benifits ,sign a declaration in court that you live as married,we did it to get my partner on my carte vitle and shes having a hip operation next month

[Val_2]

Make sure you get that mutuelle top-up as well. An elderly english friend just had to pay 1700€ to have a small tooth crowned because she only has the E121 side of things and no top-up and thats a lot of money to pay if you are on a limited income from the UK taking in the exchange rate etc. If you have worries about benefits etc, the real experts will be your local french CPAM who will deal with the paperwork anyway and tell you what you are entitled too. Everyone has different circumstances.

[french knocker]

Many thanks for all the answers and advice.

I guess our best bet is to ask the local CPAM when we arrive It would seem our health care entitlement is a grey area, a bit like our 'post code lottery' medicine!

Any further thoughts from any one?

 

Ron [Avery] - your reference to me paying tax on my pension - I thought that the UK had a recipricol agrement with France, that if I pay my tax in the UK I wouldn't be taxed in France. As far as the health care is concerned because my partner is a UK pensioner and I can hang on her coat-tails, I presume I'm in the system for life and that I won't have to contribute [apart from buying a top up that is]?

[Teamedup]

You will still have to declare your income in France along with how much tax you have paid in the UK.

[val douest]

  I believe anyone living in France who has a low household income also

gets a free top-up to bring their health cover to 100%.  This is

calculated on the 'revenu fiscal de reference' which is the sum on

which any tax will be assessed after the standard allowances have been

deducted.  Very approximately this is around €7000 per annum for a

single person and €10,000 for a couple.

    Incidentally, french knocker, it may be worth phoning the Pensions

Service Medical Benefits Team in Newcastle (0191 21 87547) if you haven't already done so, as they are

generally very knowlegeable and helpful about how your UK situation

will affect your entitlements in France.  Looking at correspondence

from them, I notice they refer in several places to 'your spouse or

partner' (and this was before the recent registration of partnerships)

so maybe your relationship may accrue some benefits. You might still

have to go down the PACS route for it to work in France. Newcastle

might know; a previous poster has indicated it was necessary in his

case. You may already have sorted out the potential inheritance

complications of buying a house together when unmarried  (pointed out

by Ron Avery above) but if not I believe a PACS is one way of dealing

with that situation also.

   Once you are registered with the French medical system you

will, when visiting any other country in the EU, receive medical

treatment on the same basis as any citizen of that country.  So,

if you visit the UK you will receive free medical treatment as long as

you haven't travelled there expressly for that purpose.  Once you

have your Attestation from CPAM you can apply for your new plastic E111

card (which will probably have to be renewed every one or two years -

experiences differ) to take with you on your travels in Europe.

Good luck!

Val

[Ron Avery]

FK

You are correct when you say that  "the UK has a recipricol agrement with France, that if I pay my tax in the UK I wouldn't be taxed in France", but as TU says you still have to declare it here, it counts as income when assesing health care charges and Tax d'habitation.  However, unless it is one of those Civil Service/local authority pensions that are always and can only be taxed in the UK,  you do not have a choice as to where you pay your income tax.  If you live in France you pay your income tax here and not in the UK .  If you have any other type of occupational pension or income, it  has to be taxed in France and not in the UK.  If you do not get an immunity under the double taxation agreement, you run the risk of being taxed in both countries. 

[Iceni]

AFAIK double taxation agreements do not guarantee that you will not have to pay tax in country B (e.g. France) if you have already paid tax on your income in country A (e.g. UK) - merely that tax paid will be deducted from any liability in country B. It all depends on allowances and rates and stuff like that. Beware that in France income tax does not seem to be the problem, it's social security charges.

p.s. when my message is in "edit" mode I see a little piccie but when I post I see a path etc - a feature of the new software ???

 

John

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