newbie needing info please re prescriptions & medical devices

[want2move09]

Hi there me & hubby are new to this forum and as our name suggests are looking to make the permanent move to france in 2009.

There are a couple of things that I need to ask. We will both be under retirement age but both in receipt of pensions, due to retirement on the grounds of ill health. (we are ok, just not fit to do the jobs we were employed for)  I take a considerable amount of medication and use medical appliances to deal with one of my conditions. Currently in the UK I buy a year long presription prepayment card which drastically reduce sthe cost of my products. Do they have such a scheme in france?

many thanks in advance

[Clair]

This sort of scheme is not available as far as I am aware.

Your French GP will want to check your condition on a regular basis and will write a prescription which will be renewable for a maximum of 3 months, possibly 6 months at a push.

You will most probably need to collect it monthly from the pharmacy.

[Russethouse]

Do you anticipate being  in receipt of an E106 or E121 ?

It may be difficult to answer the question without knowing.

[cooperlola]

If you receive Incapacity Benefit, you would be entitled to an E121.  If either of you does, then the other would also qualify.  This gives you the same health benefits as a French citizen in the same situation.  This is normally 70% of most costs, with the exception  of medicines, which return slightly less.  There is also a new system whereby one pays 50c per item/prescription (I can't remember which it is off the top of my head, but will look it up) , subject to an annual limit.  For some chronic and other long-term illnesses (known as ALDs) , the cover is 100% but this has to be agreed, and you must start with your gp to begin the process.

Most people take out top-up insurance, to cover the balance.  The cost of this is pretty reasonable.

If you do not qualify for an E121, then you should apply for an E106, which lasts up to 30 months, depending on your NI contributions record.  Once this expires, you must take out private health insurance.  Now, the snag with this is that no insurer will cover chronic conditions.  However, without insurance, you cannot legally live in France between the expiry date of any E106 and your UK state pensionable age, when you are entitled to an E121 again (with me so far?)

Even if you get an E121 due to your incapacity, if you are assessed at a later date and considered fit for work, then again you will probably be unable to get private insurance, so cannot live in France legally until you reach UK state retirement age.

Thus, the horrible truth is that, under new regulations introduced in the autumn, an early-retired  person with a chronic illness who does not receive ICB, cannot live in France any more until they reach UK state retirement age, (or possibly up to 30 months before if they have any E106 cover.)

We believe this is unjust and are trying our best to see a way around this, but at the moment, that is the way it stands.  The cost of your prescriptions is the least of your worries.

[want2move09]

We are hoping to initially be entitled to the 2 year temp cover relocating to France (not sure on number) and then we will have approx 1 year before my hubby will reach retirement age and be entitled to healthcare (and I understand that I will be covered then as his dependant). we anticipate having to possibly pay private health insurance for that year, but need more info on the whole process.

[cooperlola]

That is my point, want2move.  If you have a chronic condition (which it sounds to me as though you have) then you will not find an insurance policy which will cover it.  You cannot now legally live in France without full and comprehensive medical insurance, therefore you would be living here illegally for that year.  [:@] (That anger is not directed at you, but the new regulations, btw.)

See our website for more details:

www.frenchhealthissues.eu

The 2 years temporary cover form you refer to is the E106.

EDIT : Your best course of action, imo, is to apply for Incapacity Benefit NOW and then you'll get an E121 should you be successful.

[want2move09]

This sounds pretty frightening. However am I right in thinking I will be covered once my hubby reaches 65? There is a bit of an age difference with us. If that is the case we may need to consider holding off our plans until later in 2009 rather than earlier. We both have paid into NI contributions  for years so being entitled to the E106 should not be an issue. I do currently receive ICB but I am led to believe that when I start to receive my work related pension (any time now) that I will possibly lose it. We also currently have private medical insurance with Bupa, would this possibly be transferable?

[cooperlola]

It is frightening.

Yes, you would be covered under your husband's E121 once he reaches retirement age. 

Bear in mind, that the validity of your E106 begins when you retire from your job - NOT when you move, so postponing it would not necessarily help. 

BUPA may be a good route for you, as they will not refuse to insure you if you are already a customer, and they do do European policies.  I would certainly speak to them about this.  The policy, however, cannot be hospital only, but must cover everything, including medicines, doctor's visits etc.

Sorry if this is not what you want to hear, but at least you have the option to wait a year or two.  Until last month, everybody who lived here in a similar situation to yours, thought they might have to sell up and go back to the UK.  We've got the French Government to capitulate on that one, but are still working on them as regards newcomers!

[want2move09]

I need to check up the incapacity benefit info, as I can't find anything on the website as losing it when they pay my pension. Maybe I am worrying uneccesarily. I am currently in receipt of long term IB with  an age addition.

[cooperlola]

I think you probably are worrying unneccessarily, but it is best to be armed with all the facts. If you receive IB then you should be entitled to an E121.  Your best bet, is to check to make sure that you will continue to receive it (which I am pretty certain that you will).  Then, you will be fine.  I don't like to be the harbinger of doom, but on the other hand, best to point out the possible pitfalls, I think!

[want2move09]

I really do appreciate your help & advice given, it has certainly given me a better insight (if not a headache too) and I will contact the benefits agancy and see what they say. It has certainly not detered our wanting to move out to france. In fact we are coming over in May for a couple of weeks.

[Sprogster]

cooperlola,

Although I have no plans to live in France permanently, although you could argue I am close enough! I still am curious as to the practicalities of the medical insurance requirements set by the French government.

On the basis that probably the majority of people by their late fifties have some form of chronic health condition such as hypertension, arthritis or high colesterol, which nowadays in most cases are easily controlled with medication, how practical in reality is it going to be for early retirees to obtain such comprehensive cover?

From my experience with private medical insurance, most of them do not cover chronic conditions, GP visits and ongoing prescriptions, as they are primarily designed for acute illnesses. Even the more extensive policies have claim limits, so does this type of cover available to individuals rather than employer corporate schemes actually exist ?   

[cooperlola]

I agree Sprogster.  That is what is so mad about this.  When we ourselves thought we'd be affected by this, this was the rub.  My o/h has asthma.  It is really a very minor inconvenience and last year, we were refunded under 80€ for a whole year's drugs (in return for over 2,000€ in payments - but fine, that's what insurance is about).  However, we could not have got the private insurance required in order to have lived legally here, for just this reason.  No insurance company would contemplate covering a chronic condition.  FHI has done massive searches for companies that are prepared to do this and, thus far, as you say, they just do not exist.

From 23rd November, any early retired person  moving here cannot be legally resident without providing proof that they have full and comprehensive insurance, which complies with these regulations.

So yes, you are correct, as we see it. No non-French European who has a chronic condition can retire early to France any more, without an E-form.  Given that the legislation being invoked is about "free movement" within the EU - this is, in our opinion - bonkers.  What is more, it discriminates against the sick.

[David]

Want2move09,

I take your point about losing your ICB once you start receiving your work related pension.  You must contact the ICB people for a definitive answer for your particular case, but when I raised this possibility with them I received a very encouraging answer.

Apparently if I received a pension in excess of a certain amount, then the ICB payments would decrease.  As the pension level rose, then the ICB payment level decreased until eventually I would not receive any ICB benefit payment at all.

HOWEVER, they were adamant that even if I received no ICB payment because of receiving a pension, I would still be entitled to an E121.

Thus I suggest you should maintain your long term incapacity benefit, and as soon as you move here you should apply for an E121.  Providing you keep your E121, you and your husband should have no problem in joining the French health system.

Hope this is clear,

David

 

 

[Grecian]

I must say Coops, you have laid the facts out very clearly regarding the requirements from the French government, for healthcare cover for future inactifs, with chronic diseases proposing to move to France.

After reading this thread it has somewhat knocked me sideways. Whilst I was fully aware of the new 5-year residency ruling for anybody moving to France, after 23rd November, who proposed to be an 'inactif'. I was not aware we would not be able to purchase PHI, if we were to lose my wife's E121, which she will be eligible for, due to her claiming long-term incapacity benefit. I assumed we would be able to purchase PHI, and in her case pay for any other medication that the insurance company would not pay for, as it would be down to a pre-existing condition. Not an ideal situation to be gambling with, but that was how, up until now I understood it.

Just to add a little more information to this thread, I am not sure if this has been posted before, or is in fact already common knowledge, but another member on this forum, emailed this link to me regarding dependency of pensioners for healthcare after 2010.

Link: http://www.connexionfrance.com/expatriate-news-article.php?art=57

I telephoned Newcastle asking about this 'development' but she said that DWP were unaware of this proposal at the moment.

Going back to the topic in hand, just to sum-up, basically if we lost my wife's E121 before the 5 year reisdency period has been satisfied, we are basically screwed. Just to get things totally clear in my mind, this proposal as I think I understand it, is just for 'inactifs', so if I found employment (mission impossible, from what I have read for a 51 year-old), we would be able to contribute to CMU. The other option being maybe cleaning for a friend, who then maybe does my gardening, and then we pay each other, thus being able to declare a wage.[Www]

 

[cooperlola]

Thanks for your kind words, Grecian.  I've rather become immersed in this over the past few months...

As regards the Connexion article.  It is a misinterpretation of the facts.  We too have spoken to the DWP and there are NO plans, at present, to remove the dependency elements of E121s.  Our belief in fact, is that this is European law - as it's about a European form - so there's not a lot an individual member state's government could do about this.

Your summary is correct, as we see it.  There are "accident de vie" provisions in the new rules, which allow for anybody who unexpectedly loses their insurance cover, due to illness, to be admitted into CMU.  However, the statement appears to us to be quite clear in that the illness must not have been foreseen before moving.  So yes, if you lose cover because you lose a benefit subsequent to coming here, then yes, you lose your healthcare rights, and thus your residency ones.  There may be some latitude at local CPAM level on this, but it would be a bit of a lottery, and I'm not sure that I'd want to gamble my future on it myself.

FHI is discussing its future plans, and this is something which we do feel needs to be followed up. To my mind, at any rate, it is discriminatory and unfair.

 And as to your last sentence, you may think that, I could not possibly comment....[;-)]

[Grecian]

Thanks for the reply Coops, if somewhat depressing.

Just after the healthcare ruling was announced,  I remember reading a thread on here regarding the possibility of a healthcare provider looking into providing a policy for people with existing chronic conditions. I fully appreciate that the premium, if the policy were to be available, would have a substantial loading attached to it. This would be preferrable for a few years, rather than being expelled from France, if the loss of the benefit came about. Have you had any feedback, from any healthcare providers, if this policy will be offered anytime in the future?

The ruling as to whether DLA will be exportable after April, for us carries more significance than ever, if as the ECJ have ruled, the care element of that benefit is paid by DWP, then the possibility of an E121 on the basis of receiving DLA might be feasible, according to other posters on this website. A safer route for us of obtaining an E121, and not having to fear having it taken away, on the whim of a political party.

Finally enough said, to the response to my last sentence, of my first post. [;-)]

 

[cooperlola]

Grecian, when I first started getting into this, there was indeed one insurance company who felt they might be able to help by producing a so-called "umbrella" policy, which might help those with chronic conditions.  Sadly, nothing came of this, I suspect because the agent in question actually did a bit more homework, and when they realised the comprehensive nature of the policies required, and began to talk to underwriters, that they backed off.

This was the chap though: Kurt Harper,so it may be worth at least e-mailing him at : [email protected] to find out what happened about this.  But as I have not heard from him for months, I suspect it was a total no-go.  I cannot imagine he wouldn't have been back if he'd found something suitable!