Laboratory refuses to do the necessary analysis

[NormanH]

[quote user="Russethouse"] Q, I think you may find that Norman has been in France for many years and paid into the French system, what he is highlighting is a difference in mindset, and I suspect that is valid, as rightly or wrongly many Brits would be horrified to be presented with this situation.[/quote]

You have hit the nail on the head.

My particular situation (compeletely misunderstood to a laughable degree by some unsympathetic posters such as Quillan) is that I have worked for so long in France that I have a French (not UK) pension which means that I will never have an E 121.

(I would suggest that a few other people think about that because it will be the same for them later on )

My main point, which Russethouse has understood, is that our British instinct that if you have a major health problem you will be treated and for example a biopsy for a cancer would never be refused on financial grounds.

This is NOT the case in France and you could find yourself refused treatment, if you can't pay , or if in my case there has been a glitch in the repayment mechanism in the past.

So much for the so-called 'superior' health system in France..

[Dick Smith]

In fact, Norm, a lot of the Daily Wail diatribes against the 'free' treatment of nasty furriners comes about because of a mindset in the NHS that they will not turn a sick person away, and if told to do so, refuse. I forget the exact details, but there was such a  story a couple of weeks ago. Or, if anyone remembers, a poor woman who was sent back to Ghana, I believe, thus ending her treatment, which was then funded by public subscription from the UK - but sadly she died.

A mindset which is one of the better things about the British as I see it, but no doubt others will disagree.

[Russethouse]

 Remember that story, and I think I mentioned it here, but it seemed that she had some misdeed ( perhaps falsely claiming benefit ? ) that somehow made her less worthy ?

It's to the credit of the community to which she belonged that they continued with their support IMHO

[Quillan]

Firstly I would like to say I am very sympathetic to Normans health problems and hope that he makes a speedy and complete recovery and enjoys life for many years to come illness free. If I gave the impression that I was unsympathetic then I apologize.

Perhaps things differ from one region of France to another, we have seen this happen with other issues in the past.

Where we live I expect to hand over money for any visit to my doctor and specialist. I also have to pay for any 'lab' work done and until last year when our local hospital updated their computer system (or perhaps something else, I don't know) for all xrays. Even when in hospital I had to pay for some services like lab work etc. I handed over my money (a little more than Norman, about 78 Euros comes to mind) and was then given the claim form. With the doctor he uses the Carte Vital, as does the specialist/consultant so I don't get any form to send off. This is the case for any of my health issues be they 100% covered or not.

I get the impression, based on how it works in my neck of the woods, that Normans specialist or probably more to the point his secretary never sent the bill on to Norman enabling him to pay and then claim back and that may well be where the problem lays.

When we first used the health system here it came as quite a shock to discover that we had to 'pay up front' in some cases and as we progressed through the system we never knew if we had to pay then claim back or not and to this day it's still a guess in some cases which is why we always take a cheques book with us. The only things we use at the moment that we don't have to pay up front for are primary hospital care, MRI scans, xrays and prescriptions. So yes people should be aware that they have to pay some charges but then you do get the money back and it may be a bit worrying for those on a low income.

I think I would pay the bill (because it the quickest way of getting the new test results) and then go and have a word with the specialist and ask him to explain how this situation could have arisen in the first place.

I still don't think its a good idea to compare the French and English system because they are different and the mentality behind the systems are also different. I get the impression that the French attitude is that normally if you don't put in you can't get anything out where as the UK system is come one come all and you will be treated FOC.

Oh and yes I also remember the lady who was 'thrown out'. Originally it was reported with no reason given but after a couple of days it then transpired that she had been claiming a lot of money in benefits illegally and it was for that reason she was thrown out.

[NormanH]

In fact I now understand better.

I went to the lab and paid the old bill today.

The clinic that did the first biopsy last year never settled the bill with the Lab, which normally they should have done.

So when the lab got another sample with my Sécu number it came up on their internal records as an unpaid bill.

At the same time I had in fact paid the clinic last year, so I had no way of knowing that there was a problem. (I don't know yet if what I paid included the lab work, or it was just left out of the loop)

the Lab did in fact do the most recent analysis which

was paid directly by a different clinic in which my other Doctor works,

and which is a bit more organised administratively, so they weren't as heartless as the letter sounded.

They sent me the letter to get their money from the last time.

Although I have been in France a long time my British instincts surfaced in the fact that this would never happen in the UK.

With the NHS the medical care comes before money.

[virginia.c]

I'm  very pleased you are sorted out now Norman,  I've been reading this thread with interest.  IMHO to compare and contrast helps promote understanding - long may you continue to do so![:D]

[lerochers]

[quote user="NormanH"]In fact I now understand better.
I went to the lab and paid the old bill today.

The clinic that did the first biopsy last year never settled the bill with the Lab, which normally they should have done.
So when the lab got another sample with my Sécu number it came up on their internal records as an unpaid bill.

At the same time I had in fact paid the clinic last year, so I had no way of knowing that there was a problem. (I don't know yet if what I paid included the lab work, or it was just left out of the loop)

the Lab did in fact do the most recent analysis which was paid directly by a different clinic in which my other Doctor works, and which is a bit more organised administratively, so they weren't as heartless as the letter sounded.
They sent me the letter to get their money from the last time.

Although I have been in France a long time my British instincts surfaced in the fact that this would never happen in the UK.
With the NHS the medical care comes before money.[/quote]

 

Yes health before money in NHS . thats because the State pays the bill. Here the people are self employed.

[Sunday Driver]

Not quite - the UK tax payer pays the bill. 

In France, the tax burden is much lighter and heathcare contributions are billed separately.  And I think you'll be surpised to learn that the majority of French people are actually not self employed.

As stated previously, different systems, and if you have your proper insurance cover in place (and your bills are paid on time), you get the health.......

 

[NormanH]

But of course there can be the sort of glitch I experienced, even with all in place and paid up.

Money before care is fine while you have money.

[cassis]

And if they don't cock up the paperasse.

[Quillan]

I was wondering if this is a one off case or have there been others and if so does it happen a lot?

I know of people from outside the EU even who have received quite expensive and extensive health care in France and not paid a bean. Likewise I also knew a person who was British and received long term treatment as both in and out patient for an illness that eventually killed them (here in France), their partner (because they only had an E111 at the time but had lived her for 2 years- it was about 4 years ago) had their passport taken away, some form of compulsory order put on their house and ended up paying around 90,000 Euros before the body was released for burial in the UK. It seems to me that there appears to be no 'standard'.

From what I understand of what Norman wrote they actually did not refuse to do the lab work.

[Boiling a frog]

Has anyone ever attended one of their local CPAM offices and wondered why so many people are there with queries about their health care ,reimbursements etc.

Ask yourself.

Have you ever been to your NHS local office,do you even know where it is?

[NormanH]

[quote user="Quillan"]

From what I understand of what Norman wrote they actually did not refuse to do the lab work.

[/quote]

They did refuse to do it  in the letter, but it was a bluff to get the payment that the first clinic should have,  but hadn't made,  directly from me.

When I went into today they said that as the second clinic had paid for the second test they had in fact done it .

[Quillan]

[quote user="Boiling a frog"]

Have you ever been to your NHS local office,do you even know where it is?

[/quote]

It's the place with the queue outside full of expats paying their £35 fee for seeing a GP and those who have gone to the UK on holiday to either give birth or have their ingrowing toenail sorted out. [;-)]

I did go to the CPAM office to get my card updated. There was only two others there with either questions about their claim forms which they had or to get their cards updated. The office only opens to the public two mornings a week so I guess they don't get that many questions.

[cassis]

The CPAM at Le Mans has a section with about 20 staff who do nothing other than sort out problems and queries face to face with members of the public.  Went there once, took a ticket, waited 45 minutes before one of them was free.  I then found that we have a CPAM rep who sets up office in our canton one morning a week; in three visits to them I've waited an hour (four people in front of me), then half an hour (one person) and the last time I got straight in to see her.