Depression . Dont tell anybody you have a second home you might make them ill

[Russethouse]

 Its OK saying you have pulled yourself up by your roots when in the past there were jobs available to help you do so or to take once you were 'up' . My father did that, we've done it etc

My daughter has worked hard all her life and has a reasonable degree and additional qualification in her sphere, but was made redundant last January and despite numerous applications and interviews found it very difficult to find work, at the moment she is temping but losing your job through no fault of your own and there being slim hope of another job is depressing and eventually debilitating - your future is in question, there are no certainties. And of course there is still the student loan to repay etc.....

[woolybanana]

Yes, true, RH, but then my daughter faced a lot of unemployment in her field up to 12 months ago but finally, with a bit of a push from Dad, did a three month training course and now runs her own business very successfully. So there are ways.

 

[Frederick]

The subject of the radio item this morning was simply that the sight of things around us that we all see depicting our way of life was the cause of depression in many. It would appear to the expert many people were aware they were not likely to be able to have what others have got and this was being detrimental to their health through depression. The point was made that the governement should should tackle this problem ... How who knows ?. Perhaps I was a bit flippant in the way I headed the post .but the point is short of the governement insisting we all have the same kind of box to live in and we all drive the same a car , How to we avoid showing life can be unfair. Somebody will always have somthing others will wish they had .thats how its always been .always will be . It not a question of flaunting your wealth .who has got what in the way of posessions is all around us to see if it causes depression in some then sad but what can we do

[buelligan]

[quote user="Shivy"]there is also a very big difference between suffering from clinical depression and "being a bit bit depressed" if jealousy is a factor then it's not depression. If it was as easy as pulling yourself together then there would be no suicides or clinically depressed people out there. It's very easy to be smug and righteous when you have good mental health.[/quote]

Absolutely Shivy!  Clinical Depression is an illness, like heart disease or cancer.  Anyone who thinks you can "pull yourself out" of something like that just by getting a job or having a "nice" house needs a reality check (and is lucky not to have had one).  As far as being depressed (in the other sense) goes, I was definitely one of the "haves" and I found the whole thing pretty depressing.  Having "friends" who only seem to want to be "friends" because they aspire to what you have.  The obsession with property, income, possessions...living in a society where one is valued by your perceived wealth - that was truly 'kin depressing to me.  It's probably the main reason I left the UK and gave away most of what I had - it made me sick to my stomach to watch it and deeply ashamed to be (even an unwilling) part of it.

And another thing!  Isn't it strange that "Gluttony" is considered a "sin" (as, I think, Sweet mentioned earlier) but excessive consumption - which amounts to about the same - in modern society is almost a goal?  I think it was that dreadful old weasel Wallis Simpson who blew the clarion for our times "..one can never be too rich or too thin..".  How depressing is that?

[Russethouse]

 It's difficult to comment without knowing the timing of the survey - perhaps if the government had pumped money into supporting industries that provided jobs and opportunities, that they have put into other sectors they might have had a part to play.  I suspect its lack of opportunity that is quite a bit of the problem.

[Chancer]

[quote user="buelligan"]

[quote user="Shivy"][/quote]

   I was definitely one of the "haves" and I found the whole thing pretty depressing.  Having "friends" who only seem to want to be "friends" because they aspire to what you have.  The obsession with property, income, possessions...living in a society where one is valued by your perceived wealth - that was truly 'kin depressing to me.  It's probably the main reason I left the UK - it made me sick to my stomach to watch it and deeply ashamed to be (even an unwilling) part of it.

[/quote]

That is exactly how I felt, it is interesting to look back on the friends I had then and who is still a good friend, a lot of people have no time for me now especially as I have not earned a living in a way in which they can identify with for nearly 6 years. I get a lot of comments like "when are you going to get a job" which tells me that after all this time they still dont get what it is I am about or doing.

In the early years a few visited out of curiosity and no matter how much I had impressed on them exactly what I had bought and the conditions that I was living under (camping in a gazebo covered in tarpauilins and loft insulation, rather like the sand papiers at Calais) they were shocked beyond belief, I am sure that they secretely thought I was converting a water mill or something. They say things like "how can you live like that, isnt it depressing to subsist like that and not being able to buy a new car take holidays etc?"

The friends that are no more are those that lack the imagination or even tolerance to understand and ccept that someone can live a life different to their own, in the main , and of course their are exceptions it is the ones that have always worked hard and have lived in both poverty and luxury (and for many the order is reversed) that treat me the same regardless of my financial situation or social standing.

[dragonrouge]

Dear Richard

I have read your views and thoughts and equally your comment 'as to educating oneself out of it'

Perhaps I should pose you a question? Or questions.

What does one do when the basic system of employment as in the valleys of South Wales were destroyed by two bigots one who of whom of course employed the forces of HMG to save her son who was somewhere in Africa and then pleaded to get himself out of jail and is now a tax exile and equally one who is called Scargill and to my mind has no undercarriage whatsoever.

Please tell me Richard what you do when whole communities are destroyed and then are you saying that thousands of individuals should re-educate themselves. Tell me Richard when a Civil Servant during the 84/85 strike told a Mother in my presence that she should not have had a child when she made an application for cash for nappies. His advice rip up towels and the like and do not have children.

Tell me Richard when the Soviet Union sent parcels during the strike and then Maggie then stopped benefits for they were having food parcels what would you do.

Richard my Father and some of my family perished in the mines and we had to have my Father cut up to see if he had dust in his system what would you do.

This son of a Rhondda miner was the first to go to University became a Regional Director of a major High Street Clearer when bankers were bankers and then went on to become a lawyer.

In your view did I succeed?

I also was there in 1966 and Aberfan do you suggest that those families should re-educate themselves.

It is a fact that I lost my faith during those days but have now sorted out my brain and I intend to spend the rest of my days supporting those who need help.

I may have money assets and the rest but all of this came from the promptings of my late Father who installed in me the work ethics. I do not need or welcome your preachings.

[Gardengirl]

Chancer, as you clearly see, some of those weren't true friends, those who still hold you dear obviously were and are. You're obviously being true to yourself.

[buelligan]

Chancer wrote;[quote]The friends that are no more are those that lack the imagination or even tolerance to understand and accept that someone can live a life different to their own, in the main , and of course their are exceptions it is the ones that have always worked hard and have lived in both poverty and luxury (and for many the order is reversed) that treat me the same regardless of my financial situation or social standing.[/quote]

Interesting you should say that Chancer, it's something that has always puzzled me...why should one give a rat's arse for the "social standing" of oneself - or one's friends?  That's why, when it comes to humans (to paraphrase Mr Twain), on the whole I prefer my cat...[:D]

 

[Thibault]

Many years ago I remember reading something in the papers about the problems of envy in British society. 

One of the things I remember from the article was a point made by an American.  He said something along the lines of this:  If an American worker saw someone dressed in a smart suit, diving a large car and living in a big home, he said to himself, "I'm going to work hard and get all those things for myself and my family."  If a British worker in the same position saw the same things, he said to himself. "That b*****d has all those things, I'm going to make sure they are all taken away and he will be just like me."

Whilst I am sure there are many people who are clinically depressed and have life circumstances which make it difficult to get out of a rut, I am also sure there are many people who are simply envious and feel the world owes them a living, rather than thinking how they can endeavour to do something about it.

 

[buelligan]

If I saw someone in a smart suit, driving a large car and living in a big home, I'd think "Poor soul!  I'm so glad I don't want all that crap!".  It's frightening to imagine exchanging your life for a few worthless gewgaws!  If you spend too much time working on the outside of a thing, the inside can become a pretty neglected, hollow sort of place.

Personally, I think the widespread anomie in British society has a lot to do with the growth of depression as an illness there.  But that's just my opinion and I don't live there anymore.

[Cerise]

Given that the thought is that this is a problem of British society, how then do you account for the huge toll of depression in France see here for a few statistics  http://www.etat-depressif.com/depression/histoire/france.htm    I find the fact that so many people here are treated for depression (yet to meet a French woman who hasn't taken anti depressants at some time in her life), yet supposedly they care less for all these material trimmings.

Depression is a real illness, but I doubt what the media is talking about is real depression - just a bit of miserable jealousy.  People in Uk say easily 'I'm depressed', when they aren't.  Envy is an unattractive emotion but of course it exists.  Real depression has nothing to do with envy.

[Russethouse]

[quote user="Thibault"]

Many years ago I remember reading something in the papers about the problems of envy in British society. 

One of the things I remember from the article was a point made by an American.  He said something along the lines of this:  If an American worker saw someone dressed in a smart suit, diving a large car and living in a big home, he said to himself, "I'm going to work hard and get all those things for myself and my family."  If a British worker in the same position saw the same things, he said to himself. "That b*****d has all those things, I'm going to make sure they are all taken away and he will be just like me."

Whilst I am sure there are many people who are clinically depressed and have life circumstances which make it difficult to get out of a rut, I am also sure there are many people who are simply envious and feel the world owes them a living, rather than thinking how they can endeavour to do something about it.

[/quote]

Which neatly demonstrates a lack of understanding of British history by the American !

My feeling is that a feeling of hopelessness is a major factor........especially in the current climate

[Théière]

[quote user="Russethouse"][quote user="Thibault"]

Many years ago I remember reading something in the papers about the problems of envy in British society. 

One of the things I remember from the article was a point made by an American.  He said something along the lines of this:  If an American worker saw someone dressed in a smart suit, diving a large car and living in a big home, he said to himself, "I'm going to work hard and get all those things for myself and my family."  If a British worker in the same position saw the same things, he said to himself. "That b*****d has all those things, I'm going to make sure they are all taken away and he will be just like me."

Whilst I am sure there are many people who are clinically depressed and have life circumstances which make it difficult to get out of a rut, I am also sure there are many people who are simply envious and feel the world owes them a living, rather than thinking how they can endeavour to do something about it.

[/quote]

Which neatly demonstrates a lack of understanding of British history by the American !

My feeling is that a feeling of hopelessness is a major factor........especially in the current climate

[/quote]

Too true RH,

If that "American" took his large car into certain parts of poorer America he may not come out at all.

[mint]

I am now putting this forward for your consideration but it's still a bit tongue in cheek so don't anybody get on their high horse and call me unfeeling.

IMHO, we use the word "depression" too readily.  If the weather's a bit iffy, we say, isn't it depressing, this bloody weather.  If we're a bit short of the readies and it's coming up for Christmas, we say, it's so depressing, I am skint.  If our demand for a pay rise is rejected, we say, I am utterly depressed because, guess what, my boss wouldn't recognise my worth.  And so it goes on, whinge, whinge, whinge.

Of course, we know that depression is an illness and those posters who have pointed this out need not have bothered.  The illness is too well documented for thinking people to dispute it.

But this equation of envy of others with depression sounds perfectly plausible to me.  On the other hand, I don't think it's anything new.  It's always existed but it does tend to come more to the fore when there's some sort of economic crisis on as there is at the moment.

When times are good and everybody is out there bettering themselves (as they see it), nobody has too much time to compare their own condition with other people's.  When jobs are scarce and people have more time on their hands, they look around and get miserable (notice I say miserable and not depressed).

Ah well, here comes another of those sayings, of which so many were dished out to me when I was a young child:  the Devil finds work for idle hands (or minds, in this case!)[+o(][6]

[woolybanana]

Attagirl![:P]

[Théière]

Don't look at me, I'm off to work [:)]

Bye'e

[woolybanana]

Well Sweets, that stoppe 'em in their tracks. The definitive answer!!!!!!!!!!!!![:P]

[Russethouse]

 I think Sweets is right, we probably use the wrong word, I'm feeling a little dejected and miserable today, but I guess some people might say they felt depressed........I guess its pretty typical of our use of the English language lately

[mint]

Yes, RH, whatever happened to the famed English UNDERSTATEMENT? eh? eh?

Sounds so alien to my ears all this:  I'm like gutted, I'm suicidal, I'm gob-smacked (but not sufficiently to keep quiet)!

Well, I'm off ..........to live in France where I don't know whether they're exaggerating or not and whether when they say tant pis, its meaning is better or worse than it sounds![;-)]

[PatHCA]

I agree there is a tendency to use the term depression for a feeling of being a bit 'down' or disgruntled. this could easily be affected by looking at what other people have and comparing it to yourself.True clinical depression you could have everything you wish for and would still be ill

[sunny]

[quote user="Scooby"]Sorry GG but it has been my experience that many of those who have been blessed with health, support, free education cannot comprehend the difficulties faced by others who haven't had the same benefits.  Our family has fostered some children with horrendous backgrounds - and many of these children will never escape the traumas and experiences of their early childhoods.  One girl watched her father attack her mother with a hammer - her mother had 32 fractures.  She never got over the trauma and was an alcoholic by her early 20's.  Other have watched parents using and dealing heroin, or with mother's who have a succession of 'clients', 'Uncles' who aren't averse to a little bit of child abuse.  For the less extreme - those that don't start their education immediately or have an uninterrupted working career (even at 21) they are constantly swimming against the tide.  Many won't get offered an interview for even the most mundane of jobs.  I have watched CV's being ruthlessly weeded through - over a hundred applicants for a basic technician's job.  People with good degrees being put to one side for a job that would have been offered to a school leaver when I was training. Those coming out of university now will do so with an average debt on £34k - and, for most of them, with a degree that will not give them a higher earnings potential because pretty much everyone has a degree nowadays.   I work with a charity for people with a hereditary connective tissue disorder - I see them battle to try to keep employment and watch as recurring injury (fractures, dislocations etc) force them to give up on work.

The world has become a place of the haves and have nots and sometimes it is impossible to move from one group to the other.  But if you have never seen it close up you wouldn't know that...and maybe from the picturesque scenery of France you don't much care.

[/quote]

This is quite a moving post, Scooby. I never quite thought of the problem in this way...