I've been zapped :)

[Rose]

I'm back from my lead cell in Bordeaux hospital... not the best 4 days I've had and I'm not enjoying my new swollen neck. I've been told I must stay away from greyman for 3 days, children for 6 days, toddlers for 17 days and pregnant women for 20 days... and no intimate contact for 4 weeks [:$]

I'm still trying to get my head around how this radioactivy works so would welcome information from any experts out there...  If I use the phone for example... is that unsafe for 20 days?  is it contaminated?  I'm guessing cats would have the same risk as babies? 

I now have to wait for 3 months to see if the treatment has killed off the cancer cells... if not I either have to have further surgery and/or another round of radio active iodine. [:(]

[woolybanana]

Rose, I've always tried to see the glass half full, so I reckon you the Xmas tree will glow if you touch it - save electricty and all those tacky lights!

Hope the treatment has worked.

[Rose]

Wooly - we too have had quite a few jokes about my potential over the next few weeks :)  laughter is indeed a good medicine!

I too hope it worked! [:$]

[woolybanana]

If greyman has to wait a month, perhaps he too will glow afterwards!!![;-)]

One has to try and hit the illness by laughing too, I think.

[Rose]

[quote user="woolybanana"]

If greyman has to wait a month, perhaps he too will glow afterwards!!![;-)]

One has to try and hit the illness by laughing too, I think.

[/quote]

oh dont even get me started on that one -there are just too many jokes that could be made  [:D] 

It's funny about how we use laughter though... I used to wonder how folks coped with really 'serious' news and illnes... now we're in that situation I realise that you have to stay positive and find humour because going anywhere else is just too difficult.  And... you can say all sorts on things in a joke that maybe you wouldn't dare to say any other way?  I've also found that it puts friends at ease if we make jokes... cancer is such a hard subject for people to talk about... where as glowing willies is easy [:D]

[Gardengirl]

Rose, this is a lovely start to my day; bad night, got up to see snow has arrived - it's pretty, but I've such a lot to do today!  And then I read this thread! It's lovely to hear you're allowed out, and you'll stop being an untouchable before Christmas  [:D]

You and Woolly are absolutely right - laughter is definitely good medicine. The big C is so frightening, and the more we hear about people who have/had it the better, particularly when lighter notes and jokes are brought in.

I take it you're playing lots of solitaire  [:)]

[NormanH]

At a recent appointment for an echo-endoscopy of the rectum I needed an enema.

I asked the nurse if she would help me, and without thinking she said 'yes unless you would prefer a man to put it up you'

Our eyes met and we fall about laughing for about 5 minutes...

I know some radiotherapy treatments Brachytherapy for example can leave you mildly radioactive for a brief while

[Pierre ZFP]

So, Iodine can exist in several forms.  The 'normal' one is Iodine 127 in which each atom has 53 protons and 74 neutrons and is very stable.

Another form is Iodine 131 which was used on you.  Each atom also has 53 protons but this time 78 neutrons. This means it is unstable and will decay to give off a Beta particle and leave an inert Xenon atom.  Beta particles are the radioactive part. They can penetrate tissue to a few millimetres.  I-131 has a half-life of 8 days which means that its radioactivity is halved every 8 days.  After 10 half-lives (80 days) it does not exist in measurable quantities.  It was used on you as it is very sucessful in destroying abnormal cells in the thyroid which absorbs Iodine as part of its natural function, its short half-life means it doesn't hang around in your body too long.   It's also cheap to produce it if you have a nuclear reactor handy [:)]

The 'no sex please I'm irradiated'  is intended for those ladies of childbearing age as there is a theorectical risk to the foetus, more so if it was the man who was zapped as the iodine could possibly get into the sperm.

The 'no physical contact' thing comes from a belief  that the radiation may have an effect outside your body.  Given that we are talking about low range Beta particles here which are absorbed by your body this is highly unlikely but hey,  better safe than sorry.  You will also pass tiny quantities in your sweat, poo and wee so very regular cleaning of loos, washing bed linen and clothes is advisable to minimise exposure to family members.

Oh yeah, I wouldn't plan to go to the USA in the near future, they scan everybody for any radionuclides so you would set the alarm bells ringing !

[just john]

Good luck Rose, does this mean you are luminous at night?

[je79]

Rose, you must look like a Glow worm.

I hope all the treatment has worked and wish you the best of luck.

In the last year my dad has had a heart attack and cancer and fortunately is better from both, however during the last twelve months we have laughed so much that I reckon it is the best tonic in the world - along side the chemo of course...

[brianagain]

[quote user="NormanH"]I know some radiotherapy treatments Brachytherapy for example can leave you mildly radioactive for a brief while

[/quote]

After my brachytherapy last year, the hospital issued me with a card detailing the treatment to show officials if I needed to pass through a scanner. In my case I had to carry it with me for 12 months. And, yes, I got all the "glow in the dark, etc" comments as well. Good luck with the treatment.

Brian (again)

[Rose]

Thank you all for your comments and messages...  the old adage of a problem shared is a problem halved is certainly true  

Gardengirl

- thank you that was very sweet!  Norman - that was very funny; did she help

you?  [:$]

 

Pierre - thanks for the explanation, I have read so

much on the internet but still struggle getting my head around it.  By holding

the phone with sweaty hands... does the phone become as radioactive as me?  Does

Greyman need to avoid the phone for a few days?  Can I rub the radioactivity

away (on the phone, not me)?  I'm guessing that it doesn't actually penetrate the phone?  Part of us

thinks we're being over precautious... I wanted sauce on my sandwich so greyman

added it rather than me touching the sauce bottle... are we being a tad

ridiculous?  Leaving the hospital yesterday was so hard... I was upset as there had been concerns over my scans and bloods and I just felt miserable but greyman had to stand there 2m away from me... he couldn't even carry my bags as they also were radioactive... all I really wanted was a hug [:(]

 

Just John... I'm always luminous [Www] and Brian and Je79

thanks you also for your comments...[kiss] I also have a sheet that I need to carry

that explains why I am radioactive... we collect our son from the airport on sunday (he has stayed with family for a week) and I'm am very tempted to wander around and see if anything happens [:D]  They said if I wished to travel on a plane

they'll provide me with a letter of explanation as well... I think I'll just

stay at home for another 12 week.

 

I too hope I'm over the worst... I know there are a some doubts...I read some of the

papers they sent home with me last night and it seems that she (the nuclear

doctor) has some concerns about the amount of thyroid residue left behind?  It's

difficult to read her writing (or understand her terminology) so I am just

hoping very hard that her concerns are unfounded.  I was very strict on the low-iodine diet and I did everything they asked of me (more in fact), I have had fairly typical reactions to the treatment so I'm hoping that it's working properly and anything that was left behind will die off over the coming weeks... Onwards and upwards as they

say!

[Gemonimo]

Rose, you sound really positive.  It must be so difficult not to be able to be close to those you love but in the meantime I'm sending a cyber hug[kiss]

[Rose (& Greyman)]

[quote user="Rose"]..... Onwards and upwards as they

say! [/quote]

Perhaps a tad insensitive in the circumstances [Www] [:$]

[Pierre ZFP]

[quote user="Rose"]  By holding

the phone with sweaty hands... does the phone become as radioactive as me?  Does

Greyman need to avoid the phone for a few days?  Can I rub the radioactivity

away (on the phone, not me)?  I'm guessing that it doesn't actually penetrate the phone?  Part of us

thinks we're being over precautious...

 

[/quote]

Well you're not really that radioactive and certainly can't make things radioactive.  You may leave traces of sweat which may contain tiny amounts of Iodine. This is normally not a problem but any contamination is not really desireable.  The good news is that by simply wiping things like the phone you are removing the traces.  Also, Iodine 131 just doesn't stay active very long so every day there is less of it in you, certainly no glowing I'm afraid - shame, it would be a good party trick [:)] 

It does sound a bit of an overreaction by the hospital but being radiographers they have to be most careful as they can potentially get small doses every day which add up.

[Richard51]

I'll ask Mr R51 when he gets home - he's a clinical scientist (aka hospital physicist and radiation protection advisor) so radiation dosimetry (from treatments / X rays etc) is his job...  He also prepares and gives radioactive iodine for cancer treatment - so will be totally au fait with what you've had done.  (I know for certain procedures you and, say, your urine (for example) can be quite radioactive so you do need to follow the rules.)

He'll be back in a couple of hours.

I hope that (other than the enforced solitary confinement!) everything went ok.

Mrs R51

[NormanH]

I too hope I'm over the worst... I know

there are a some doubts...I read some of the

papers they sent home with me last night and it seems that she (the

nuclear

doctor) has some concerns about the amount of thyroid residue left

behind?  It's

difficult to read her writing (or understand her terminology) so I am

just

hoping very hard that her concerns are unfounded.  I was very strict on

the low-iodine diet and I did everything they asked of me (more in

fact), I have had fairly typical reactions to the treatment so I'm

hoping that it's working properly and anything that was left behind will

die off over the coming weeks...

I don't know about your treatment, but I do know that with my radiotherapy the effect continues for a while (a bit like  microwave cooking) so the final results show up later and are better than the initial ones.

Perhaps that will be the case for you...

[Rose]

Piere - thank you... it really helps to get some straightforward answers to everyday questions... really - thanks x

Mrs R - thanks also, all information is very very welcome!  I'm not sure if all went as planned... the Nuclear doctor didn't say much apart from that 2 scans were good and one... mmmm... we'll wait and see.  I just hoping that anything that may be seen will be killed off by the RAI.  My reaction to the treatment was normal, had a lot of nausea and swollen neck from ear to ear under my chin... the nurses said this was all typical.  So I'm hoping that if I'm responding typically that it's killing the cells in a typical fashion too [:)]

I had a dose of 100 mci I think... so not as high as it could have been... the information sheets says that on the day I left (day 4) they measured 19,4 uSv/h at 1 metre... (the u is the funny reverse u symbol) 

many thanks x

[Rose]

Norman - you're right of course [:)]  I dont have another scan for three months and they have said they wont know anything for at least that period... I'm not a very patient person but I guess I'll have to learn [:$]

[Richard51]

Rose, glad to see you are out and about. Your hospital seems to have given all the advice necessary as I, and no doubt you, would expect.

The iodine is taken up by thyroid tissue as this is used in the thyroid to produce the hormone thyroxine. Once there, the short range beta emissions give a high radiation dose to the area, and ablates the thyroid tissue. Hence a low iodine diet is required beforehand to make sure that the radioactive iodine will go there rather than the non-radioactive iodine in your diet. Using 131I after surgery is to "mop up" (my term, not official jargon) any residual thyroid tissue.

In terms of radiation protection there are two risks: contamination and external exposure.

Some radio-iodine will be excreted in your sweat and so there is a contamination risk, hence the comments about telephones. Having said that, by the time you're out of hospital, good hygiene should go a long way to removing this problem. It will also be excreted in your urine, mainly that which is not taken up into your thyroid tissue and occurs for a few days after administration. Not in your case, but gents are normally advised to sit down whilst peeing - the obvious reason.!

As well as the beta particles the 131I emits gamma rays (360 KeV so normally a little high for diagnostic nuclear medicine but, nevertheless, are used) which have a longer range and can come out of the body. These allow the nuclear medicine scans to be performed using a gamma camera but also will give an external radiation dose for those around you. The precautions given to you are to ensure that radiation dose limits to others, stipulated in national legislation, are not exceeded.

I can guarantee you that more than 50% of patients ask about their pets. You were obviously too shy or had other things on your mind!? The simple answer is that there is no problem. One reason that pregnant women and children are singled out for longer periods of restriction is that they (foetus then baby, not mother)  live longer. The sad fact is that pets tend to live for much shorter periods and so the likelihood of adverse problems is much less. (Nothing to do with my cynical posts re funding and charities for animals versus humans :) ).

Its quite bizarre that two topics in which we (Dr and Mrs) have considerable experience have cropped up on this forum in the last week or so. Please feel free to pm me as minor problems which aren't discussed at the time are really more important

Mr R51

 

 

[mint]

Rose, I haven't been around much and so I have only just seen your thread.  But, hey, Glow Girl!

I will get off my behind and start concentrating on sending you positive vibes especially during my long walks with my dog.  Don't know if they help but, in the absence of anything else I can do, I guess it shows my good intention if nothing else?[:D]

[Rose]

Sweets - thanks for the postive vibes... they certainly can't do any harm can they :)

Mr R - thank you very much for the information... the stuff about pets makes a lot of sense and is a huge relief... I dont think I was capable of asking anything sensible by the time I left [:D]  We sent our son to the UK for a week, greyman can take his own precations but the cats of course are cats ... although it is odd in that they do seem to be avoiding me where as normally they would be desperate to sit on a lap... maybe they know.[8-)]

I'll certainly be in touch if I have any other questions!

Also, it dawned on me when in hospital how much risk the nurses and doctors and staff take when treating us.  All the nurses had great big apron type things on and kept their distance, avoiding coming in to the rooms at all... but one night a nurse came in a chatted to me for some time... at a distance.  After a bit she said she had to go as her machine was beeping... They must get so much exposure during their days at work... I felt very humbled by that experience.

[Kitty]

[quote user="Richard51"]I'll ask Mr R51 when he gets home - he's a clinical scientist (aka hospital physicist and radiation protection advisor) so radiation dosimetry (from treatments / X rays etc) is his job...  He also prepares and gives radioactive iodine for cancer treatment - so will be totally au fait with what you've had done.

[/quote]

This Forum is A-M-A-Z-I-N-G.  Fancy having an expert for you, Rose.  I read Mr R51's answer (thank you for being so helpful Mr R51 and Mrs R51) and couldn't understand most of it but it must go some way to helping you.

The thing about hospital meetings is that you don't take in half of what they say.  Rose already knows this but I take a voice recorder to my meetings and can play back the information in my own time.

As for Onwards and Upwards, I can't use the phrase ever since a barrister used it.  A close family member had unjustly lost custody of her two children and the barrister (who was Useless with a capital U) left the court building, strode up to her and said 'Oh well, Onward and Upward'.  However, I suppose that it was better than her saying Downwards and Backwards.  [Www]

Rose, my Buddy, we are with you in mind and in spirit on this radioactive journey....

[Richard51]

Rose

Don't worry.

You obviously had a very good (rare?) nurse  who actually related to her (his) patients concerns. She would have been carrying a personal dosimeter (EPD or Electronic Personal Dosimeter - I do so hate abbreviations)  and would definitely not have received any significant dose.

By the way, the u is the symbol used for "micro". i.e. a millionth. Keyboards don't have the correct symbol readily to hand.

After 2 ( or mor) wine glasses I don't really want to get too technical but it measures the absorbed dose and at the dose rate you left hospital with there are restriction ( as advised by the hospital) to adhere to.

One thing that I learnt very early in my career was that radiation risks are well regulated and, totally of the subject, a pathologist once told me that he wasn't  concerned by the risk of radiation as much as from biological hazards (as its more difficult to detect these). Very true but with provisos!!

NB for polonium I'd worry - its an alpha emitter only and hence is difficult to detect - the Russian chap would have agreed! ( I can't spell his name).

Mr R51

[Rose]

Mr R - thank you again... as Cathy says who would have thought I'd find such experts here! 

The whole radiation exposure business has been a huge worry for me... I dont really understand it and maybe because of this it scares me.  I would hate to think that I put my loved ones at risk because of my lack of understanding. 

Anyway - thank you for the offer of help... it's very kind [kiss]