I need urgent care- short stay in France for the purpose of treatment only for french citizen.

[sony]

I am 27 years of age and have been very ill for quite a few years now- the NHS is letting me down badly and I'd like to go back "home" and would like to start afresh with doctors who have more than 5 minutes to listen to you and offer more solutions that giving you paracetamols and signing you off with stress.

I have dual nationality French / English, and I left France in 2000 for England to study. I returned to Versailles in France briefly in 2003 for a year. I held a "carte vitale" whilst in Versailles and of course I still have my social security number.

I would like to be investigated in France asap - but I would not have a job. I want to study in the UK this september but can't in my current state. I need to feel better, I've had 10 years of hell to the point where I'd now rather be dead than live.

Do I need to be there 3 months before treatment is available? How does it work exactly?

Will I be entitled to the same level of care of a French citizen who has lived in France continuously?

Will my card be still valid or should it be renewed? Is there a mandatory waiting period before receiving care?

[Gardian]

Surely this is blindingly obvious?

You have dual nationality and presumably you're fluent in French.

You need to talk to whichever office of the Secu that you feel affiliated to. They ought to be able to give you answers to the 4 questions that you've asked.  Sorry, but this is the same as an expat Brit asking a UK-based French resident what their health entitlements are back in the UK!

You've been studying for a while, eh?     

[Cat]

Did you draw a blank last time you inquired sony?

http://www.completefrance.com/cs/forums/1/2367134/ShowPost.aspx#2367134

[sony]

[quote user="Gardian"]

You've been studying for a while, eh?     

[/quote]

No nothing since 2004. I can't really ask the secu if it's ok to just pop back into france for treatment and that's it can I though?

[Sunday Driver]

As you are currently resident in the UK and under the care of the NHS, you are entitled to apply for a European Health Insurance Card (EHIC) which will allow you access to healthcare whilst visiting France. Whilst the card does not cover visits to France specifically to obtain treatment (for that you'd need NHS pre-approval), you will be covered for treatment of pre-existing or chronic conditions that arise while you are over here.

The EHIC gives you the same level of cover as a French resident so if you are required to pay a ticket moderateur, you may be able to obtain reimbursement once you return to the UK.

http://www.nhs.uk/NHSEngland/Healthcareabroad/EHIC/Pages/Introduction.aspx

 

[idun]

So you know the basics: ie you will need to join the french health system to get treatment and become a full time resident.

If you have enough NI contributions in the UK then you would be able to get an E? S? form and to hand into the CPAM when you move to France and that would enable you to get treatment reimbursed like anyone else in France.

REMEMBER

1) Tests can be expensive and patients pay initially for their treatment and do not always get everything reimbursed. I say this as my son's carte vitale needed renewing and it took a year (see below). To get the difference made up or partially made up you would need to join a mutualist and some of them have a waiting period before you can claim.

2)My french pharacists daughter from the age of 19 was in constant pain and feeling so ill all the time and she ended up in Belgium trying to get help, she decided to go and study there.My eldest son cannot get medical help either, at one point he had 800€ owed by the CPAM and frankly he could not afford to live and have medical tests, he is still unwell. AND frankly a french hosptial made me ill when they didn't know what was wrong with me.

3)So in spite of France being held up as a beacon of medical excellence, it is not always so. There is no guarantee that you will get any better medical treatment in France than you are now.

4) You are quite within your rights to change your doctor in the UK and demand to see consultants.

http://www.nhs.uk/choiceintheNHS/Yourchoices/Pages/Yourchoices.aspx

Sunday Driver, is it oK saying that. Health tourism? and if he ended up in hospital he could end up with a big bill as there would be no mutalist cover and how easy would be getting travel insurance it would be what, nigh on impossible with a pre existing condition? possibly. And no guarantee that they would find out what was wrong.

[Sunday Driver]

Idun

The OP is currently resident in the UK and wishes to continue his studies there.  Being dissatisfied with his NHS treatment, he is looking to spent a short stay in France to see whether he can get better treatment here.  Health tourism, perhaps, but reflective of his current rights.

As you rightly point out, there is no guarantee that he will get better treatment here than back in the UK.  He says that he has spent the last ten years being prescribed paracetamol for stress, so he may well end up just getting a second opinion prescribing the same.

On the other hand, if he is offered a long term solution with some prospects of improvement, then he has the option of moving back to live in France to resume his normal healthcare rights as apply to any other French citizen.

 

[idun]

http://www.cfe.fr/pdf/jeunes_expat.pdf

As the poster is only 27 maybe this will help.

[sony]

Many thanks for all your help.

It seems to me that I have to be in France at least 3 months before I can be on the Secu.

How do they actually know you've been there 3 months?

[sony]

I don't have to wait 3 month's, according to cleiss. Being a french citizen all should be ok!

How long would it take to get a carte vitale and be insured though? I couldn't pay hospital fees upfront!

[idun]

Lots of mutalists make you wait for three months before they would pay. And a carte vitale could take months to get.

My son has been ill. He had to pay up front for everything, 100's of euros and because for various reasons they were reissuing his carte vitale and that took months to get.

AND the CPAM is really slow at reimbursing when there is no carte vitale working.

AND he is still ill as they 'couldn't find what exactly was wrong'; so he has crutches a lot of the time and limps some of the time and is in constant pain.

AND that is in France.

Have you really not changed doctors in the UK and had a good talk at your new practice to get help.

[tinabee]

There is the option to ask your UK doctor to arrange planned treatment in France - see here

http://www.nhs.uk/NHSEngland/Healthcareabroad/plannedtreatment/Pages/Introduction.aspx

Maybe you could persuade your GP that it would be in your best interests to have your health problem dealt with in your mother tongue.

[sony]

[quote user="idun"]

Lots of mutalists make you wait for three months before they would pay. And a carte vitale could take months to get.

My son has been ill. He had to pay up front for everything, 100's of euros and because for various reasons they were reissuing his carte vitale and that took months to get.

AND the CPAM is really slow at reimbursing when there is no carte vitale working.

AND he is still ill as they 'couldn't find what exactly was wrong'; so he has crutches a lot of the time and limps some of the time and is in constant pain.

AND that is in France.

Have you really not changed doctors in the UK and had a good talk at your new practice to get help.

[/quote]

Is this perhaps because he isn't French? Surely as a french citizen I shouldn't have to wait that long?

[virginia.c]

I think Idun is making a point about getting a diagnosis, not just how long it might or might not take to get reimbursed.

[Russethouse]

From reading this forum for many years health care seems just as patchy there as in the UK.

Have you just tried changing Doctor ? Or asking to be a private patient in the UK ?

[idun]

The CPAM take their own sweet time to do the paperwork and hand out the reimbursements. As they do to issue a carte vitale. Functionaires work at their own pace.

And doctors, you would have to register with a GP in France now, to get the best reimbursement, and then they would have to decide which specialists for you to see, otherwise you pay a lot more too and money does seem to be an issue here.Also how would they know what was wrong with you so quickly, unless you fell on someone whose assessement was spot on immediately.

My son has a non french name, but was born in France and no one would be able to tell if he was french or not, his Secu number is french rather than a foreign one too. And actually they don't differenciate between nationalities.

Remember the depassement d'honoraires which can be enormous these days depending which specialist you see, I even had to pay when I saw a specialist in the public hosptial! and mutualists don't always reimburse everything.

Also we haven't discussed waiting times to see a specialist. Sometimes it can be months. Then those tests.I had to wait four months for a cat scan in France five years ago after being told to get one by a specialist and it is not much better now in some depts.

As I said my french pharacists daughter went to the FAC in Belgium so that she could try an alternative health system to find out why she was in constant pain.

I do feel for you, I really do and as a parent I would be very concerned for you. As with my son, I cannot offer any alternative suggestions. I really do believe that you should swop GP's in the UK and try and get one that will take you seriously and get you checked out. It would be the cheapest thing to do.

I understand that the french health system gets lots of good press, and there are some very very good things about it, I won't deny that, but unless you are having a heart attack, stroke or a baby, then you may well have a wait on your hands.

[sony]

I would be going to back to Strasbourg. Alsace- Lorraine have a very good reputation for medical help. They kind of have the best of both world, the french- german health system.

I can't believe a good few of you seem to be relatively unhappy with the french system.

The NHS is a catastrophy- months wait for not a lot in return.

My parents can't wait to move back to France- they've always been seen to very quickly and dealt with efficiently. Strange.

[Russethouse]

Nothing strange about it really - members on this forum live in many different regions in France and find the treatment not consistent - the same happens in the UK.

It may be that you and your GP don't communicate well and that would be easily remedied by changing your GP and/ or practice. The same happens to English people too - only yesterday I was offered the opportunity to talk to my mothers doctor, however I refused because I just don't think we are 'on the same page', later a much easier to talk to  more understanding doctor phoned me back and we had a constructive conversation

Just because your experience of the NHS has not been great you should not assume its all dreadful.

[sony]

In 10 years I have been through many doctors. The first bit of trouble is they only have 8 minutes to speak to you.

But to be honest, they never ever seem to look at you in the eye. They're very distant- and hardly ask any questions. I have often found myself turning to the internet- or even the local chemist. They seem to have more ideas!

If I had a pound everytime I heard a doctor telling me that at 27 years of age nothing will be wrong...

Thing is- my parents have come over here for a year to look after gran. And they're nearly tearing their hair apart. They've found the exact same thing- useless doctors.

My dad has back pain. Extremely bad recently. Docs response: take the strongest painkiller your body can handle. Never prescribed him anything. No follow up either.

[Gardengirl]

I have mixed views about the French doctors I've seen, but had excellent care at hospital.

In UK we had one very good GP and one poor, working together, with the old sergeant-major-type receptionists. We changed to another group practice over 30 years ago and they have always been fantastic, whether about general matters or more specialist care. It can't be beaten, and they take the length of appointment with a pinch of salt - if you need longer, you get it, although that can often mean them over-running, which most people accept happily. We're planning downsizing, but I'd hate to move outside our GP's area, which we might need to do to find a suitable smaller house.

I've also found hospital care in UK to be excellent, apart from one nearby hospital I had to visit, where they forgot they were meant to operate on me until told at about 5pm! I'd had nil by mouth since midnight and those white stockings on since mid-morning! It was also quite dirty there. However, our local hospital is very good. But my brother and sister-in-law had poor care from ambulance and hospital staff over an extended period last year in the north-east.

I think it's a lucky dip in either country. My French neighbour thinks that medical care in UK is excellent, that in France it's poor, and has all her care in Switzerland, where she's also in the system.

[Russethouse]

sony - I hate to say this but as you say you have been through many Doctors, is it just possible they are right ? It would be odd for them all to agree with the same wrong or non diagnosis surely ? Alternatively have you considered paying for a private initial consultation ? Or even looking at holistic medicine or homeopathy?

GG, I think we are pretty lucky with our local hospital on the whole.

 

[idun]

Firstly find another Doctor's surgery. Change practice. Then  at your new surgery say you want a double appointment, you may have a little wait, but you will get one. And if you are still having problems contact your local PCT and ask what on earth you should do. That is the Primary Care Trust, and for the time being at least, they 'run' the health care by area.

I was at the drs the other day and it took 15 minutes on a normal appointment, I wasn't got rid of.

The problem is that if you get to France, you may be in exactly the same situation. What is wrong with you is your concern, but things happen, even to the young. My son cannot go back to his job because of excrutiating pain, and yet nothing is showing up on any of his tests. Celine was the same.

[sony]

I've had the "could they be right" comment a lot.

I can see how you could come to that conclusion, but please believe me when I see this is not in my head, I am not a hypochondriac.

10 years of hell, only last night, I woke up at 3am with the biggest urge to vomit, but nothing came up. I couldn't go to sleep for hours after.

Words can only express so much and if only people could have a glimpse of my daily life, perhaps they'd understand a bit more.

You can imagine how judged I have been in all those years- I hate it.

[virginia.c]

As someone who actually works within the NHS i am afraid that i must take issue with the detractors. No, it isn't perfect - show me another FREE health service anywhere in the world which is. But it does treat anyone and everyone to (mostly) the best of its ability. Like every huge organisation there are stronger and weaker parts within it. It would be naive to expect every experience to be a positive one.

As Russethouse says, you can change your GP and change your practice. You can also choose your Consultant and decide which hospital you would rather be treated by. I am not sure where else in the world you would find a comparable service.

[Gardengirl]

Sony, if after all this time you haven't found the help you need, maybe you should seek advice about a good specialist you could see privately, who could suggest the route you need to take. It could be a good investment, as it must be very worrying for you. Good luck.