I need the cheapest health insurance possible for France!

[Visvaldis]

I am an American, retired, and receive monthly pensions from the US and Germany, for a combined total about 1,000 Euros.

I lived and worked (non-military) in Germany for 18 years and paid into the German healthcare system. But I did not live in Germany during the last 10 years prior to retirement and am therefore not eligible for their statutory retirement health insurance which is required for a residence permit. Germany’s private insurance is way beyond my finances, so I’m searching for alternatives.

While in Germany I made several trips to France, my favorite country. I like the landscape, climate, culture, architecture, and the quality of life attitudes. Living in France would be wonderful. I am fluent in English and German, but a novice beginner at French. This, however, can be remedied with determined study.

I’m 66, have no health issues and am interested in the cheapest possible health insurance, for non EU members, of minimum coverage to obtain a resident permit for France.

I am open to all suggestions, advice, and even other European lands. I will consider everything.

[idun]

I think that you really need to contact a french consulate and see if you could even get a visa. As far as I was aware, there is a minimum income requirement to live in France as no foreigner is supposed to be a drain on France. Remember, private health insurance can be very expensive, even the cheapest.

I am finding it hard to see how you could afford to live in France. Electricity and gas are expensive, there are local taxes to pay, 'gas' is expensive. And if you think that you can find a very warm bit of France, well, this year it would have been hard to find. A very long winter and a printemps pourri. And you can hardly depend on your french to steer your way through french bureaucracy.

Is this the grass is greener, especially as you don't know France.

[Sprogster]

I would have thought that private health insurance costs in France and Germany would be broadly comparable.

Unless you also have an EU passport, you will require a long stay visa stay in France more than 90 days, which requires evidence of sufficient financial means, which I don't think you meet, a medical and evidence of fully comprehensive private medical insurance. This visa which is aimed at non EU retirees does not allow employment though and has to be obtained in your home country before you enter France.

[Visvaldis]

Thanks for the responses.

I should have mentioned that I live frugally, self-sufficiently, and would not be a drain on welfare. It may be hard to understand, but many things that others view as absolutely essential are not required by me. The many varieties of electronic gadgets, for example.

I think I can safely assume that most expats living in France are earning or have earned six-digit incomes, or close to it. I'm different.

My thread is just an attempt to gather information, although I was aware that chances of finding affordable health care insurance are slim.

I appreciate your responses to my thread.

[powerdesal]

I really don't think that your assumption of six-digit incomes is valid. I certainly wish it were true in my case but, alas, I will settle for 5 digits.

Living frugally or not is not a material consideration in the eyes of the Law.

The visa and health insurance requirements are a fact and, as such, would appear to be a block on your aspirations to take up permanent residence in France.

[YCCMB]

I think that you may have misunderstood. It's not the people on this forum you need to convince. It's the French authorities. If they are not satisfied that you have adequate income and adequate insurance cover, then you won't get a visa. The French authorities simply don't and won't care that you are different from other people . France is not a country whose public servants have been trained to understand "different". There is never a box for "different" on the form.

[Val_2]

The cheapest health cover you can find will still leave you out of pocket and will not cover a great deal as there will be restrictions on how far the insurers are prepared to pay out and for what exactly. You really need to do some serious investigation into whether its feasible to live here or not as a non-EU citizen because at this stage and as stated previously, its the french authorities you have to convince and they like to see hard facts and figures on paper, not a statement of self sufficiency and frugal living which means squat. Its expensive to live here now,just about everything you will need to survive keeps increasing and growing veggies will not pay your bills. Even as a EU citizen, myself and many other brits who came here over twenty years ago to live had to prove back then our monthly incomes, health cover and apply for a Carte de Séjour,all of this has now been recinded but it was hard back then and we were also obliged to change our driving licences too or else take a french test.

[EuroTrash]

Unfortunately I think most EU countries have similar rules in place to protect their already-overburdened national social security systems. Didn't I read that even the UK is considering setting up something along these lines?

I don't know anything about visas for US citizens but I do know about living frugally, because I'm self-employed and shortly after I arrived here things went somewhat pear-shaped. I struggled by for a couple of years on an income slightly less than yours but I certainly wouldn't have done it indefinitely, it involved begging and borrowing and going without, and all that takes the shine off living the dream. And I didn't have to worry about full health insurance because I was legally 'in the system'. However frugally you live you still have to pay your property taxes, fuel and food, ongoing repairs and maintenance, insurances, and any other taxes La République Française might think up to take off your pension.

France has good points but it's very twitchy about its finances at the moment, and to put it bluntly the government does not want immigrants unless they are taxable ones. So by all means give it a go, but don't expect the government to make it easy for you to get in or to stay.

[Sprogster]

Retired Brits in France have their health care paid for by the UK under a reciprocol agreement promulgating free movement within the EU for EU citizens.

France has no similar agreement with the USA or other non EU countries, so the French authorities are understandably concerned that any non EU citizens applying for a long stay visa will not become a burden on the French government  and therefore apply stricter criteria than for an EU citizen who has certain automatic rights. Hence the need for a visa if you want to stay in France or Germany for that matter for more than 90 days, which EU citizens do not require.

I am sure you are aware that the USA would not allow an EU citizen to retire to the USA, so the situation is not unique to France.

[Visvaldis]

Germany and the USA have a mutual agreement regarding retirement pensions since 1979. Apparently, a significant number from both countries live and work in the other country.

I receive retirement benefits from Germany. This made my US Social Security pension subject to WEP - Windfall Elimination Provision. The purpose is to make sure retirees who receive pensions from sources other than social security are not treated to a "financial retirement bonanza". To me it was like a knife in the back, reducing my US pension by over 300 dollars per month.

I could easily devote five pages to my opinions about America's healthcare and social security systems, but this is not the place for it.

I try to keep informed about current events in France. I guess that France has enough problems with immigrants from other European nations as well as from Africa. And it's quite likely that the French authorities have set rigid standards on how much one needs to live in France without public assistance.

I thank everyone for their input to this thread. You are all informative, that helps me greatly to grasp the reality of the situation, as disconcerting as it is for me.

[Pickles]

[quote user="Visvaldis"]I am an American, retired, and receive monthly pensions from the US and Germany, for a combined total about 1,000 Euros. [/quote]

According to the following French Govt site

http://vosdroits.service-public.fr/F1375.xhtml

It says in particular

[quote]Il doit également prouver qu'il dispose :

• de ressources stables et suffisantes pour vivre en France, éventuellement avec sa famille,

• et d'une assurance maladie.

Le montant des ressources du demandeur doit être au moins égal au

Smic

. S'il est accompagné de sa famille, ce montant peut être majoré suivant la taille de cette dernière.[/quote]

SMIC at the moment corresponds to just over 1430 €/month before tax. That's the minimum that you need.

[idun]

 Get in touch with your nearest french consulate and ask them as they are the only people who can answer all your questions. You would, after all, need to do everything via them anyway.

[HoneySuckleDreams]

This is an honest question....

I'm wondering which part of the government come knocking on your door asking how much money you have and if you have a right to live in France? No one asked us any questions when we pitched up, neither of us worked and had 3 small kids in tow

 

[idun]

I do believe when they stopped the carte de sejour, such controles were no longer in place . We most certainly had to prove on a regular basis that there was full time employment we had a permanent residence. And at one point every three months.  However, the rules are still in place, that no one has the right to live in France for more than 3 months and be a drain on France, ie have enough ressources to live on. And I suppose that if anyone starts begging from the french state, then they will have every right to ask. Sounds reasonable to me.

[Rabbie]

[quote user="idun"]I do believe when they stopped the carte de sejour, such controles were no longer in place . We most certainly had to prove on a regular basis that there was full time employment we had a permanent residence. And at one point every three months.  However, the rules are still in place, that no one has the right to live in France for more than 3 months and be a drain on France, ie have enough ressources to live on. And I suppose that if anyone starts begging from the french state, then they will have every right to ask. Sounds reasonable to me.

[/quote]I think there are different rules depending on whether you are an EU citizen or not. As  far as I understand it EU citizens have the right of abode in any other EU country especially if they have employment or are retired/pensioners. Please feel free to correct me if Imam wrong.

[Visvaldis]

I think I'll console myself, buy a baguette, some cheese, and a bottle of Cotes du Rhone.

[Sprogster]

Rabbie is correct in that the rules are totally different for non EU citizens in that they still require a visa and carte de sejour to live in France. In the same way an EU citizen would require a visa to live in the USA or Canada for example.

[EuroTrash]

Rabbie "As  far as I understand it EU citizens have the right of abode in any other EU country especially if they have employment or are retired/pensioners."

I think it would be more correct if you take the 'especially' out. EU citizens have the right to 'live and work' in other EU states, but they don't have an automatic right under EU law to live there and not work. The idea was to make the EU a free market for workers. Countries are not obliged to allow inactifs from other countries to turn up and become resident with no conditions attached, hence France's five year rule.

[Val_2]

Like Idun and as I said, we had to proove things to live here and as soon as you sent off the paperwork via your Mairie back then,no going to the Prefecture,the Commissariat of Police and the Bureau des Etrangers for the dept became involved and then kept an eye on the applicants with a limit to the time in which you had to enter the social security system. For us as starting a business, we had to register with the Chambre de Métiers first before we could apply for a CdeS,show bank statements and eventually once in the system proove our SS registration with an attestation before the CdeS was delivered by the Maire himself in person. The idea was that we were not to be a drain on the resources and the same exists still for non-EU nationals and even for EU nationals upto the five year deadline before they can enter the health side of things or apply for RSA etc. Back at the beg of the 90's, you had to have a minimum income for a family of four of not less than ff5000/month.