Cost of Health Insurance

[Ally]

Can anyone help pls? I have been trawling through lots of info on line and still confused! Me and OH are relocating this summer - currently in negotiation buying gite business, when we will be self-employed on arrival. I am 61 and have paid full N.I.,still working in UK, due to have UK state pension from Nov. this year. OH, househusband, has not been working for last three yrs age 62 state pension due Apr 2016. We have capital to survive but need to know how we fit into the health system. Have had a couple of on-line quotes which have been c. £6K p.a. Scary! this cannot be? Any advice/info/comments welcomed.

[tinabee]

[quote user="Ally"]Can anyone help pls? I have been trawling through lots of info on line and still confused! Me and OH are relocating this summer - currently in negotiation buying gite business, when we will be self-employed on arrival. I am 61 and have paid full N.I.,still working in UK, due to have UK state pension from Nov. this year. OH, househusband, has not been working for last three yrs age 62 state pension due Apr 2016. We have capital to survive but need to know how we fit into the health system. Have had a couple of on-line quotes which have been c. £6K p.a. Scary! this cannot be? Any advice/info/comments welcomed.[/quote]

Your situation may or may not be complicated by your gite business. If you were moving to France after November when you are in receipt of your UK pension, then you can apply for an S1 form from the DWP for yourself and your husband.

However, if you start a registered business, you will pay "cotisations" (similar but much greater than National Insurance) on your income which will provide you with access to the French health system and your entitlement to the S1 from the UK will end.

I am not that familiar with the Gite business, but I believe there is a way of running gites, but NOT being a registered business, as long as the gross revenues from the gites are less than a specified amount. In this case, I believe you would still be covered for healthcare under your S1 since you are not a registered business.

Hopefully someone with more knowledge on this subject will be along soon as I would hate to give you duff information.  The upshot is, do a lot of research as the impact of running a registered business in France can have heavy financial implications for a very long time.

 

[NormanH]

tinabee has pointed out the danger of losing your S1 cover which would pay the part of health cover reimbursed by the state for both of you.

Don't forget that there is another part to be found, either by paying for it or by taking out a 'top-up' insurance.

So there are two parts to think about.

Even covered by the state I still have to find 125€ a month for the 'Mutualle' that I have chosen.

[suein56]

[quote user="Ally"] ... currently in negotiation buying gite business, when we will be self-employed on arrival. I am 61 and have paid full N.I.,still working in UK, due to have UK state pension from Nov. this year.[/quote]

My personal view would be to delay working in France until after you start receiving your UK pension. otherwise, as has been said, you will open a nasty can of worms.

And yes, health cover could easily be between 4 and 6,000 euros per annum for a couple in their 60s. An early retired friend who moved here had to pay close to 4000€ a year just for her, after her S1 (from work in UK) expired and before she started to receive her state pension and her pension related S1.

Sue

[Ally]

Many thanks TB and for info sent. Food for thought and lots to digest.

[Ally]

Thanks Sue - grateful for your reply .

[EuroTrash]

"My personal view would be to delay working in France until after you start receiving your UK pension. otherwise, as has been said, you will open a nasty can of worms."

Delaying starting a business in France until you have your S1 won't stop the can of worms being opened. Once you are in business in France you have to pay cotisations into the French system, and this automatically invalidates your S1 - the UK is no longer your competent state if you are economically active in France.. And once you are in the French system direct, you also become liable for CSG.

As Tinabee says, if you don't earn much with the gites you should be able to simply declare it on your French tax return without registering as a business. Otherwise, the business will need to earn you enough to compensate for losing your S1, and therefore having to pay cotisations and CSG, before it even starts making you any better off.

Not trying to put you off, it sounds a great idea, but just be aware that when you run a business in France you end up giving a lot of the profit to the government. It's not like the UK where if you are self employed you expect to keep most of what you earn.

[Ally]

Thanks Norman - I am sure I have read somewhere that UK is proposing stopping S1 from April this year?

[Catalpa]

[quote user="EuroTrash"]Once you are in business in France you have to pay cotisations into the French system, and this automatically invalidates your S1 - the UK is no longer your competent state if you are economically active in France.[/quote]

Even if you have reached State retirement age in the UK? Which the OP will do in November this year. It used to be - perhaps still is - that the non-retired spouse could 'piggy-back' their health cover via the retired half of the couple.

I am in no way an expert but if someone has reached UK State retirement age then they will certainly pay cotisations on anything extra they earn in France but I did not think that any work done here cancelled the UK state retirement health coverage. I thought the S1 cancellation under discussion was the (up to) two years of "free" cover from the UK for those under retirement age and which depended on NI contributions paid in the years pre-move.

But it doesn't affect me (yet!) so I've not been following the detail and could have misinterpreted.

[tinabee]

[quote user="Ally"]Thanks Norman - I am sure I have read somewhere that UK is proposing stopping S1 from April this year?[/quote]

The UK is proposing to stop the short-term NI contribution-based S1 for early retirees, but NOT the state pension-linked S1.

[tinabee]

[quote user="Catalpa"][quote user="EuroTrash"]Once you are in business in France you have to pay cotisations into the French system, and this automatically invalidates your S1 - the UK is no longer your competent state if you are economically active in France.[/quote]
Even if you have reached State retirement age in the UK? Which the OP will do in November this year. It used to be - perhaps still is - that the non-retired spouse could 'piggy-back' their health cover via the retired half of the couple.

I am in no way an expert but if someone has reached UK State retirement age then they will certainly pay cotisations on anything extra they earn in France but I did not think that any work done here cancelled the UK state retirement health coverage. I thought the S1 cancellation under discussion was the (up to) two years of "free" cover from the UK for those under retirement age and which depended on NI contributions paid in the years pre-move.

But it doesn't affect me (yet!) so I've not been following the detail and could have misinterpreted.
[/quote]

Working or running a business in France, i.e. paying healthcare cotisations overrides any S1 entitlement. Subsequently, when you stop work or close the business, as far as I can tell, you will continue to be covered for healthcare by the French caisse, and as a consequence pay 7.1% CSG/CRDS on all your UK pensions as well as any French ones.

I would imagine that there may be a grey area if, as a result of your work or business in France, you are not entitled to a French pension, for example if you haven't accrued sufficient trimestres. In that case, it may be the case that the UK would re-instate your S1, since you would not be entitled to French cover. But I can't imagine that this is a very common situation yet, and as such, both the French and UK authorities may just "make it up as they go along" or interpret the rules in variable ways.

 

[Rabbie]

Some of the info given in this thread may be helpful

http://services.completefrance.com/forums/completefrance/cs/forums/3056589/ShowPost.aspx

[Sprogster]

The critical financial

calculations involved with Tinabee’s important point I am sure are overlooked

by many early retiree Brits who move to France and set up an A&E to get

into the French health care system before their 5 years residency. In many

cases if the early retiree is close to State retirement age with a reasonable

UK pension it might well be considerably cheaper to remain inactive and pay for private health insurance

for a few years rather than be saddled with 7.1% CSG/CRDS deductions from your

pension for the rest of your life in France. I wonder how many early retiree

Brits moving to France appreciate that for short term financial gain in

avoiding the need for private health insurance they are incurring much greater

long term financial pain in losing their free S1 health cover they would be entitled

to at State retirement age, if they remained inactif?

[EuroTrash]

I guess the preferred approach will be to simply close their AE when they hit retirment age, apply for their S1 when the time comes and 'forget' to tell DWP that they've been working in France. Have seen a number of posts on the Dark Side along the lines of 'I will start claiming my UK pension next month so please can someone tell me how to close my AE?' It'll be interesting to see whether or not DWP has any mechanism for checking.

[NormanH]

The probem would come if the AE had paid enough contributions to have gained a monthly-paid French pension however tiny.

In that case the S1 won't apply even if the AE scheme has been closed.

This situation is not all that likely since the AE scheme is so new that I doubt that many have built up enough contributions

[Pommier]

[quote user="Sprogster"]

I wonder how many early retiree

Brits moving to France appreciate that for short term financial gain in

avoiding the need for private health insurance they are incurring much greater

long term financial pain in losing their free S1 health cover they would be entitled

to at State retirement age, if they remained inactif?[/quote]

Of course the payment of CSG/CRDS would continue even if these people returned to live in the UK.

[woolybanana]

What would happen if a Brit living in France who is post retirement age with UK OAP and S1 began to work again?

[NormanH]

I presume if the work is in France and declared the S1 stops...but first find the job..[:-))]

[idun]

 Wooly, I have asked about this, our situation being the opposite of yours....; a french S1 and french pension but living in the UK.

The only variation being the way National Insurance works in the UK. If NI is paid then the S1 would stop. So, I would suppose that as soon as someone pays cotisations on earnings in France, then the UK  S1 would stop?

[EuroTrash]

It used to and probably still does state on the S1 that you must inform DWP/HMRC of any material change in your situation. Starting to work is what they would class as a change in your situation.

The S1 is only issued on the basis that you are still the UK's responsibility because you don't have any entitlement anywhere else, and the EU says that a country can't cut its own pensioners adrift in Europe without health cover. But the minute the UK can legally offload you onto another country, they will; and when you start working in France you go into the French system, so the UK can wash its hands of you. Why would the NHS choose to keep paying the bills for someone who's now living, earning money and paying taxes in another country? Be realistic.