Healthcare in the event of a no-deal Brexit

[Cathar Tours]

Do you have a "French" S1?

[idun]

We had a french S1 until the uk state pension kicked in, and then it stopped. And until that point we were still paying some contributions in France too, but they also stopped.

IF we moved to another EU country, we would have to have a french S1 again, and restart french contributions, ie moving to Eire. And if we moved back to France would be, should be, straight into the french system again.

When we moved back to the UK we had to ask for a french S1 immediatly and they were literally months and months and months issueing it. I had Newcastle calling me regularly to ask what on earth was happening as they wanted it.

[Cathar Tours]

Am I right to think from reading some of your other posts that most of your working life and your partner has been in France and not the UK?

[idun]

We are in France an awfully long time. And who knows we may reluctantly end up in France again!

[Mr Wiggy]

Only last week I received a letter from the "NHS Business

Services Authority" which gives a website you can go to ,to find out about this situation;

www..gov.uk/uk-nationals-living-eu. this will explain the situation for every-one.

I just hope that I can have a lung transplant before long as I have waited for almost year on the 16th October, Otherwise I shall be hearing the ringing ot the cash registers.

[Mr Wiggy]

Idun.

I haven't paid my pension taxes in the UK for years as I opted to pay here In France, which means I'm no longer punished for being a single male,.it was a love of motorcycle sport for the reason for remaining single. This was quite a dangerous sport in those days, so female relationship went out the window.

[idun]

 I don't understand your post Mr Wiggy.

I did not know that one could chose where to pay, I thought that

tax regulations said that there were rules as to where one was resident

and where one paid, but if you managed it, well,  OK. 

We have no choice in our income tax payments. When we first moved back to the UK we paid income tax in France and then did our uk declaration and included mention of our payments made in France which were deducted.

Since the french pension started, we only pay in the UK, there is no choice as it is a basic type pension and not a french government pension and there were french social security payments made from those pensions  too until the UK state pension started and then these SS payments stopped as did the french S1.

On this board, our situation is unusual. That is all I can say.

As we lived in France a long time, with the intention of moving back to the UK upon retirement and that idea never left us.  IF Brexit affects the french pensions then we would have to perhaps move back to France. It would not be difficult for us we know how to do everything we need to in France, language no problem either, but frankly I would rather live in the UK without a moments hesitation.

[mint]

Quite right; you can't "choose" as such but you can, of course decide to either live in France or in the UK.  If the former, then obviously you pay taxes in France

[Cathar Tours]

The letter was not just about healthcare, pensions were also mentioned. Here is a link

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5d84fca940f0b61cde27252d/letter-to-s1-holders-on-access-to-healthcare-after-brexit.pdf

Page 2 - Pensions

"If you receive a UK State Pension, your payments will automatically continue after 31 October 2019. Your pension is not affected by the UK leaving the EU. Your UK State Pension will also be uprated in line with UK increases for 3 years up to and including 2022-23 while you are living in the EU. The government plans to negotiate an agreement with the EU to ensure your State Pension will carry on being uprated in the longer term."

As with everything it all implies the UK is negotiating but as the European press point out with whom because nobody has actually turned up to negotiate these issues probably because it is way down their list of priorities. After all those that are affected the most do not have a vote in the UK. Then of course it is a way to save money if you don't have to pay for the healthcare of 385,000 state pension holders in the EU.

So given this is all tit for tat if the UK sate pensions stop being uprated as of three years I guess your equivalent will suffer the same fate assuming it is normally uprated in line with inflation.

[mint]

CT, how do you explain UK pensions not be uprated being decided by agreement with the EU?  "The government plans to negotiate an agreement with the EU to ensure

your State Pension will carry on being uprated in the longer term."

How does the EU decide for the UK government what pension to pay its pensioners?

Likewise, how would idun's pension also stop being uprated in a "tit for tat" (your words)? 

[Kong]

The NHS has plainly got it wrong. The pensions upgrades will be only be decided by the UK. Why need there be an EU agreement on how our pensions are treated (or more likely mistreated) after Brexshit?

[Kong]

crossed post

[Cathar Tours]

Hey guys come on I am just repeating what the letter says. I gave a link so you can read it for yourselves. I am but the messenger. I don't know what or how the UK government thinks. From what I have read they don't have a clue what the left and right hands are doing either.

The EU and UK seem to be playing stupid almost childish games without a thought for those expats be they British, French, German or whatever. I do know for example that it was reported in the German newspaper last week that 85,000 Germans living in the UK have received letters from or via HMRC to tell them they have to register or they will become illegal immigrants as of Oct 31st. I saw on the BBC website last week that some 300,000 French expats in the UK have received the same letter. The Germans are saying they can't register because there are huge problems with the system and it takes forever.

Brits who have applied for German residency have the same problems which is put down to this tit for tat attitude. Both sides are behaving like children. But this is all really a UK problem because they decided to leave the EU so it's all down to them.

Now I am told if you are resident in Spain you wouldn't have a problem because they have said the expats with S1's can carry on using their health system as before. I have no idea if this is true it's just something somebody said they had read.

[Gardian]

For goodness sake, this isn’t hard to comprehend.

The ‘host state’, i.e. where you happen to be living doesn’t care much who pays for healthcare. It’s either the individual’s home state or the the individual themselves.

On balance (as I have previously said), the host state would prefer to invoice the actual costs back to the UK.

The UK seems to be saying that it is trying to sort out an arrangement with (in our case) the French Govt. Basically, a ‘carry on dancing’ situation. For the moment, things continue as is.

[idun]

[quote user="mint"]Quite right; you can't "choose" as such but you can, of course decide to either live in France or in the UK.  If the former, then obviously you pay taxes in France

[/quote]

But not if it is a UK government pension then that is taxed in the UK, as french government pensions are taxed in France even though the recipient lives in another country.

Not our case, as we have bog standard pensions.

[Mr Wiggy]

As I pointed out, being taxed as a single male I was being hammered, for want of a better phrase .

I was informed that I could transfer my payment of taxes to the French system and was told of this by our good friend, now no longer with us, S. D.

So I have been paying into the French system for twelve years or more now. Here I'm treated more fairly as my taxes are on an even playing field.

[BritinBretagne]

You still haven’t explained how you had the choice when nobody else has that option.

[Mr Wiggy]

Hi Britin.

I can't tell exactly, because a good friend known to most as Sunday-Driver, he helped me by sorting all this out for me.

He was a fraud investigator for HSBC so it certainly wasn't any fiddle.

[idun]

  OK, so if you were not on a government pension, ie an ex: teacher, armed forces, civil servant and surely other departments of the government I cannot think of for the moment, then you should only be in the french system. and have informed the UK tax authorities that you were a french resident, and just declared in France.

How, anyone could get round what I call 'government' pensions, I have no idea, as the pension people involved know that they are taxed at source, no matter where anyone lives. The same applies for say a retired french teacher moving to the UK... their pension would be taxed in France, then they would declare that in the UK when they do their taxes, and pay any difference.

I am sure that what you have now must be right, it's a long time for it to be 'wrong'[:)], so when you arrived in France, had you informed HMRC and your pensions of a change of country residence.

Incidentally, single people in France also think that la fisc hammers them too[Www]

[Mr Wiggy]

FurtheI have received another letter in the lunch time post from NHS Business Services Authority Headed Healthcare after Brexit.

Further info go to www.gov.uk/uk-nationals-living-eu

S 1 scheme.

At the moment we understand you get state-funded healthcare under something known as the S1 scheme. The S1 scheme supports certain people, including UK state Pensioners, some workers and people receiving UK benefits who live in the EU. This is funded by the UK government and is administered by the NHS Business Services Authority

[Mr Wiggy]

I get a state Pension same as many other person do, and also have a company pension which is paid by the Pension Protection Fund.

[Cathar Tours]

Well Mr Wiggy your private pension paid via the Pension Protection Fund may well be in for a 10% hair cut.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/money/news/article-7518315/UKs-pensions-bail-fund-faces-huge-bill-European-Court-Justice-ruling.html

[Mr Wiggy]

Cathar.

You didn't read the full articles of my pension, it will remain as is.

. Those who are already receiving their pension will also normally continue to be paid in full.

[Mr Wiggy]

If you believe all you read in the press then God help you.

Maybe you didn't understand what I stated, My Companies Pension is protected by the P.P.F, I had already been stiffed by the Chairman/Director Mr Allan Amey, he stole my pension to try to prop up this ailing company of LDV, with my money, and my pension, then you are mistaken. So what would you do ? just lie down and accept it? No I fought to change peoples attitude.