PAL/SECAM

[ChipshopCharlie]

Hi,

 

Shortly before moving to France, Mrs. Chipshop and I bought our first television together. Having waited a number of years, we blew the budget and got quite a nice one, which was great while we were living in England…

 

The problems arrived once we moved to France, the first being that we are on such low land that it’s pretty much impossible to pick up French TV with a standard terrestrial aerial.

 

Eager to take any opportunity to improve our French, we decided that it would be a good idea if we could get the six standard French channels, so after a lot of high risk acrobatics at the top of a ladder in the Brittany wind, I managed to install a sattelite dish. We now have channels 1-6, although in black and white only.

 

I originally thought that I hadn’t tuned it properly and kept adjusting the dish, but I’ve since found out that the problem is that my TV is PAL only and so doesn’t give a colour picture with a SECAM signal.

 

My question is, can I buy an analogue satellite box that will give a PAL signal out to my television, so that I can watch the Atlantic Bird channels in colour or is the signal that comes from the satellite a SECAM signal? If so, I’m wondering how the French pick up their own TV channels if they live in the UK as, apparently, most TVs sold in the UK are PAL only.

 

Alternatively, I note that a lot of French TVs and videos are both PAL and SECAM. If I were to buy a French video/DVD player and put the satellite signal through it, could it convert the signal to PAL?

 

We’ve tried to quiz TV shop staff on this, but they either don’t know or care, or they do know, but my modest French doesn’t stretch to understanding their response.

 

Thanks in advance for any help.

 

Charlie

 

[Jerac]

Are you using a SCART cable, or connecting via the coaxial aeriel connection?

[Andrewjspencer]

hi Chipshopcharlie

it is unlikely that any analogue sat box will convert the SECAM signal to PAL.

Not sure if a VCR would convert the signal - it is likely to just pass the SECAM signal through unconverted. A DVD player would make no difference although DVDs played on the machione would display in colour on your PAL set.

You can get SECAM to PAL transcoders although they aren't easy to get these days. As my other half is french and we live in the UK, we bought such a transcoder when we invested in an analogue sat box and dish. Luckily for us when we replaced the Phillips TV with a Thomson set (purchased in UK) it was able to take the SECAM signal and show it in colour.

As a result I eventually flogged the transcoder on eBay and it was snapped up for a good price - proving they are hard to come by.

Just searched on ebay for "secam to pal transcoder" and found this:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/SECAM-to-PAL-video-convertor_W0QQitemZ5834463519QQcategoryZ109015QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Unfortunately it is in the UK and is local collection only

May be worth contacting a satelite system retailer in France?

Hope you get it sorted out eventually.

Regards

[Anton Redman]

Is it not worth spending money on a SECAM to PAL device. 9 years ago we purchase El Cheapo Blue Sky colour portable which amazed me by tuning in UK C5 in our kitchen. I them had to sort out a UK terrestrial ariel on the side of our house so my late mother could watch Tango Argentina and Eurotrash in peace.  

If you want French TV either :

Pay a sub to one of the two French Digital networks and you should find that the SCART feed from their box drives your UK TV OK.

Buy a cheap French Tv which will be dual standard SECAM and PAL and then decide if you need an external ariel or a dish    

[BJSLIV]

If you subscribe to French satellite telly eg TPS the boxes output in either Pal or Secam. Then you can watch  french telly, English Premier League Football. and American films in either VO or VF.

[BJSLIV]

I agree with Anton.

If you subscribe to  TPS the boxes output in either Pal or Secam. Then you can watch  french telly, English Premier League Football. and American films in either VO or VF. You also get a high quality picture.

[Martin963]

This topic has been covered a few times,  but it is a minefield. 

The advice above is mostly sound,  transcoders are generally not particularly good unless you pay a lot.   Using a scart lead will not solve the problem unless you use a French TV.    And I've never seen a domestic analogue sat box that outputs RGB - it's easy to do with a digital signal coming in but not so easy with analogue.   Some professional boxes probably do but I doubt you could obtain one,  and it would be very very pricey.

What everyone has missed above (and I have posted about a few times) is that SOME DVD recorders will do the SECAM to PAL transcoding job very professionally.  The Philips 610 and 3305 for sure do.  Connect the analogue box to the DVD recorder (eg via AV2 or CAM 1 via phono plugs) and the TV to AV1 and voila.

Most VCR's do not transcode,  as posted above.

You shouldn't have to pay subscriptions to watch channels funded by the redevance, TPS (particularly) and Canalsat are making money unfairly here.   Unless you want all the other channels that come with the package.

An alternative is to get a digital satellite receiver and hook it up to the dish you have already installed - this gets you France 2/3/4/5/Arte/Parliament although there is a question mark over how long this will be in the clear on AB3.

Or buy a cheap portable TV in France and use it just for learning French by wiring it up to your analogue sat receiver on AB3 via a scart lead.

As to your query about the French in the UK,  they are generally astounded that UK sets are so ofter PAL only.  A (very) technical French contact of mine took a lot of convincing that this was the case!.   There must be some French overseas who only get a grey-tinted view of back home! 

[Brilec]

As to your query about the French in the UK,  they are generally astounded that UK sets are so ofter PAL only.  A (very) technical French contact of mine took a lot of convincing that this was the case!.   There must be some French overseas who only get a grey-tinted view of back home!

They have obviously overlooked the fact that the whole of europe, with the exception of France, is PAL. France is well out on a limb with SECAM.

[Martin963]

Well getting that way,  mais n'oubliez pas that the whole east-bloc (Soviets included) were SECAM.  In fact SECAM historically did come before PAL (by a few months).

But then the French tend to be surprised by a lot of Euro-facts.   We still meet the odd one who honestly thinks that the UK is part of the Eurozone....

[james419]

We bought a Philips set from Curry's just before we moved in April - ready to get Sky etc, and were told by all and sundry - wont pick up French tv, any way on Friday afternoon a local chap came to sort out an ariel problem with the Sat dish - he jokingly asked why we did not watch french tv - "set wont get it I replied" confidently.

Would you like to watch French Tv he countered - Why Yes I replied - he promptly rang his shop and I was dispatched with all haste to collect an antennae - he disappeared into the loft via the roof tiles and within 15 minutes we had French TV no converters no gizmo's he just reset a couple of settings on the TV and programmed in 5 stations - job done - even sales staff in various shops when asked, just shrugged their shoulders and told us to buy a new TV.

Seems so simple but Curry's were not aware that the set could cope with both when they sold it to us, the wonder of having a tecky let loose.

Have a nice day

James

[Martin963]

Philips are an example of an honourable exception in the SECAM/PAL field (see my post above about their DVD recorders).   Certainly some Goodmans TV sets sold by Comet were (are?) SECAM compatible,  don't know whether they tuned system L though (which is of paramount importance for direct off air reception in France).

But you shouldn't rely on a UK sourced TV working via a French aerial on UHF;  some do,  many don't.   The magic ingredient is system "L" in the specifications.

[ChipshopCharlie]

Thanks chaps, very heplful.

The bit that was really confusing me was whether the signal from the sattelite was SECAM or it got turned to SECAM in my receiver box.

I guess we'll have to learn to love French TV in black and white.

Charlie

[Martin963]

Well I'm not sure we answered that one specifically,  but yes ithe signal out of your analogue satellite receiver will be SECAM because that particular satellite broadcasts SECAM (the reason is that this feed is used as the main back-up for the French TV network in the event of failure of the primary microwave distribution,  and the transmitters themselves need SECAM).  

[Gyn_Paul]

[quote]We bought a Philips set from Curry's just before we moved in April - ready to get Sky etc, and were told by all and sundry - wont pick up French tv, any way on Friday afternoon a local chap came to so...[/quote]

Philips has quite a good website (if a little hard to navigate) and you would have been able to see from there that many of the Philips sets are multi-standard (the chips are now so cheap, if you sell euro-wide, it's probably not worth the bother messing about with different tuners for different markets).

You would have had little luck (if my experience is anything to go by) finding ANYONE in any of the electrical multiples who understood what SECAM was, let alone whether or not any of their sets on sale would actually receive it.

I was told by an oik in one shop (which shall remain nameless, but for the sake of argument, let's call it Comet) that, "you'll be OK in France with this set Sir, because it'll play American tapes and they have the same system there" !!!

[ChipshopCharlie]

Thanks again for your help.

Although we've got used to French TV in B&W, the thought of the impending Six Nations and a certain football knockout competition in Germany this summer, the thought of getting French TV in colour is now becoming a little more worth the effort.

If I understand the guidance above, I can either buy one of the recommended Philips DVD recorders (can anyone offer a guide on price?) or get a digital decoder to convert the digital channels from AB3. Can anyone tell me if I will need to change the head on the dish to accept the digital signal from AB3 or is a head a head and it takes both analogue and digital signals down to the box?

Advice before the Wales England match tomorrow would be much appreciated!

Regards

Charlie

[Gyn_Paul]

Answering your questions in reverse order:

A head is a head is a head and cares not a jot if the satellite signal is digital or analogue. However it must be 'universelle' in order to receive the higher frequencies (most anything you buy off the shelf now is bound to be).

AB3 has digital channels and analogue SECAM ones; in fact, TF1 is only available here in Secam.

The analogue receivers or now so cheap in the bricos they are nearly giving them away! No subscription, easy to line up. No probs, but you are still looking at a SECAM signal. going into your PAL set. and - as far as I'm aware - the analogue receiver's SCART output generate a composite video signal which would be SECAM-encoded rather than an RGB signal which feeds the colour components of the signal direct to the guns. So it looks like a cheap receiver + and expensive DVD recorder, or the wrench of finally ditching your uk TV and buying a French one.

p

[ChipshopCharlie]

Thanks Paul,

 

Very helpful. I can get the Philips DVD recorder from either of these two suppliers, cost about £120:

 

http://www.pricerunner.co.uk/sound-and-vision/vision/dvd-players/386444/details

 

http://www.leguide.com/combis_dvd_magnetoscopes.htm

 

As the Philips recorder supports both PAL and SECAM, am I right in assuming it doesn’t matter whether I order from the UK or French supplier?

 

As an additional possibility, I currently have a dish that picks up the BBC channels from Astra 2D in digital (thankfully, I found out that BBC are showing the rugby this afternoon).

 

The digital decoder for this dish gives out a signal in either PAL or SECAM.

 

If, as you say, the head tuned to AB3 will pick up both digital and analogue signals, is it possible that I could take the signal from both dishes into one box? If so, how would I go about it? I accept that I’d lose TF1, but it’s that or £120 for the DVD recorder, as I see it.

 

Regards

 

Charlie

[Robbie34]

If you have a "normal" digital receiver rather than a Sky digibox you should have no problem receiving the French channels on Atlantic Bird.  You need to buy a lnb switch - a manual one is sufficient and cheap.  You simply connect the two leads with their f-connectors to the switch and you will have to make up a lead with an f-connector at each end.  This goes from the switch to the digital receiver.  When you wish to change satellites you simply press the switch.

It is the A/B switch as in this link.

http://http://www.brymar.co.uk/acatalog/Online_Catalogue_Dish_and_Switches_11.html

[ChipshopCharlie]

Before buying the switching gear, I thought I’d test the idea out by seeing if my digital box (which is a ‘normal’ digital box and not a sky one) could pick up the signal from AB3, so I took the Astra 2D feed cable off and connected the AB3 cable.

 

Following the instruction manual for the box, all I then had to do was change the satellite registered in the box and then do a channel search.

 

Curiously, all I got was four channels, two of which are blank and the other two are test cards (for Belgian TV?)

 

So, success and failure at the same time. To be honest, I’m stumped at the moment, as it seems I can get some sort of signal from AB3, but not the ones I want.

 

Is anybody aware of something stupid I may be missing out? For example, have the channel tuning characteristics perhaps changed since they were preset in the box or have the channels that I want been removed from AB3 in digital? I’m sure the dish is pointing in the right direction, as I can still get French TV in analogue. Or maybe my head isn’t ‘universelle’? (it’s only a couple of months old, but was a cheapy from Leroy Merlin).

 

In need of a flash of inspiration…

 

Charlie

[Robbie34]

It's likely that the transponder details are not in the receiver's memory so you will need to do a manual scan. 

The six channels on Atlantic Bird 3 are on transponder 11591 V,  SR 20000, FEC 2/3.

Enter those settings and you will get them.

[ChipshopCharlie]

Unbelievable. After a couple of weeks I finally managed to find a way of putting the transponder details into the digital box and Hey Presto... six French channels in glorious colour.

I'm very, very pleased, thanks Robbie. I now need to find a way to get both satellite dish signals into the one box. I saw your commemts about the switching box. Is there an easier way of doing this? The instructions for the digital box mention something called a DiSEqC - can anyone enlighten me on this?

By the way, it also looks like I can get some Italian channels, but they use a different transponder frequency - would I lose the French ones of I tried to tune to the Italians as well?

I'm also quite keen on getting some German TV, preferably the freebies on Astra 1F (19.2 East). If I'm currently picking up Astra 2D (28.2 East) and Atlantic Bird 3 (5 East), is there any way I could use a double head, rather than buy another dish?

Once again, thanks for your help.

Charlie

 

[Anton Redman]

<< I'm also quite keen on getting some German TV, preferably the freebies on Astra 1F (19.2 East). If I'm currently picking up Astra 2D (28.2 East) and Atlantic Bird 3 (5 East), is there any way I could use a double head, rather than buy another dish? >>

I believe Atlantic Bird 3 is 5 degress West not East but I have not checked the manuels. When BBC1 first went free to air as opposed to free to view, Pro & Cie were selling a special dish and arm which allowed you you bracket the Astra cluster which SKY use with Astra 1f and the other main French digital sat cluster which is about 13 degrees eats. I think it used a normal 6 dgree dual French LNB and an aditional bracket for Sky. I think Satcure also have a a three LNB are on their website which shows it can be done. Unless space or esthetics dictate otherwise I thnk I would og for a second dish. 

[Robbie34]

I'm pleased I could help.  It's quite simple when you know how, so don't give up.

The A/B switch is very easy to set up but you can buy a DiSEqC 2 Way Switch, which are double the price of the simple manual switch.  This is what you want.http://www.brymar.co.uk/acatalog/Online_Catalogue_Dish_and_Switches_11.html  You should be able to buy one in France but I've never seen them for sale in the likes of Bricomarché   I've dealt with Brymar lots of times, and they are thoroughly reliable, so check if they'll post to France.

 

[Crevette]

I read recently that the TNT decrypter works with two scart outs - therefore it should work with a UK (PAL) TV as the signal recieved will be from the TNT box...

You can pick these up for about 60 Euros...

-Rob-