More channels FTA this morning

[CBC]

@ CBC

Difficult to say,  as you will probably have worked out the ch 4 group of FTA channels are on the same satellite (2D) as ITV,  so it could just be that 10729 MHz is a gnat's crotchet below the required strength as received on your set up.

If they still don't work when the sky is clear then the first thing to try is a very small adjustment to the skew of the LNB -  ie how far it's twisted round in its holder.   2D does seem to favour a slightly more than usual clockwise twist (as veiwed from the front of the dish) but having said that I got ch 4 to work on someone's set up by twisting back towards the vertical recently.  

If you can't reach the dish easily,  or if that doesn't work,  I'd try borrowing someone else's box (Sky or otherwise) that DOES get ch 4 when it's at home,   and see if it works on your dish.  If not then it might be time to consider a bigger dish,  the extreme south of France is getting to the edge of 2D's footprint.

------------------------------------

Hello Martin

The odd thing about this is that we have no problem at all with C4 (or Five), in fact it holds its own in bad weather:  ITV channels are the first to go, followed by BBC, but we can almost always continue watching C4 and Five ..............  Hmm!

Now, as I write I've tested them again and it seems we can get E4 and More4 (not perfect reception as weather is a bit off again).  I just have to work out if there is anything I desperately want to watch on them!!

Thanks for taking the time to reply.

CBC

[Tim]

I'm wondering whether this is a 'skew' problem again? If you can get to the dish easily, then it may be worth just tweaking the lnb at the end of the dish's arm slightly one way the the other to see if this improves anything. Some channels are more critical about this than others but I'm not aware that this affects Channel 4 and the rest. If this doesn't help then it has to be down to dish position.

Tim

[Ron Avery]

Tim

I have sent you a PM re my earlier post about the reception qualities of different channels on different boxes from the same LNB and dish. Have you seen it?

 

[Martin963]

@ CBC -  your Sky box will still be looking at the encrypted version of ch 4 when you select 104,   and this version is on Astra 2A/B north beam which is probably giving you a stronger signal than the new FTA's on 2D.   

Skew is definitely worth a check now,  a turn of the LNB clockwise as viewed from the front (south side) of the dish.  No more than 15 deg,   see if it stabilises the 2D signals.

What size dish do you have?

[Tim]

My apologies Ron, I did see the message but I've been very busy and then I forgot about it - I'll pm you back shortly.

Regards - Tim

[AnOther]

CBC (or a mod)

Can you edit the line of -------------------------- in your post please.

It's causing the whole page of messages to be wider than most screens (I'm viewing on 19") and therefore requires horizontal scrolling !

Ta

[;-)]

[AnOther]

Ta whoever [kiss]

[joidevie]

Great news.. More 4 is a great addition. Going on from dish size, what is the next size up fro the standard supplied dishes here? Will this help eliminate breaking up of the picture in the rain? I'm extreme South as mentioned earlier (E of Carcassonne)

Thanks

[Jay]

[quote user="joidevie"]Great news.. More 4 is a great addition. Going on from dish size, what is the next size up fro the standard supplied dishes here? Will this help eliminate breaking up of the picture in the rain? I'm extreme South as mentioned earlier (E of Carcassonne)

Thanks

[/quote]

Have you set your dish/lmb up with a meter or just by luck? If you set it using a meter I can't see that you would have a problem.

Have a look here http://www.brittany-satellites.com/astra_footprint.php which gives you the satellite footprint and the dish size required.

[AnOther]

No CH5 in the line up I see [blink]

[joidevie]

[quote user="Jay"][quote user="joidevie"]Great news.. More 4 is a great addition. Going on from dish size, what is the next size up fro the standard supplied dishes here? Will this help eliminate breaking up of the picture in the rain? I'm extreme South as mentioned earlier (E of Carcassonne)

Thanks

[/quote]

Have you set your dish/lmb up with a meter or just by luck? If you set it using a meter I can't see that you would have a problem.

Have a look here http://www.brittany-satellites.com/astra_footprint.php which gives you the satellite footprint and the dish size required.

[/quote]

.. Done using the on screen signal/strength indicator which I have

found more accurate than a meter.. I have the best signal I can so far

find, although I am going to re-wire the setup to eliminate a couple of

connectors I have along the coax.. And I'm going to look in to finding

the best coax spec available? I'm on the cusp of a 90/120cm dish but in

a wide valley with no obstructions.. Is a 120cm dish going to make a

huge difference in poor weather>

Thanks, and a bit off topic - sorry..

[Ron Avery]

Mine was professionally installed, with an 90cm dish and with a meter and we still lose the picture on all channels in heavy rain, the signal just cannot penetrate through really heavy rain.

I think its been said before by one of the experts that using the sky box signal strength indicator on the TV is not a really accurate assessment of the correct position of the dish which can be quite away out and still give "acceptable" readings.

[AnOther]

In-line connectors are never a good idea and in marginal situations just 1 can make the difference between a reliable setup and one which is prone to breakup in rain.

If you're nearly there then an uninterrupted run of better cable would be the first step before increasing dish size, but keep it as short as you practically can.

For Sky boxes at least it's possible to locate the box itself near the dish and remotely control it with an infra red adapter in the TV downlead. I don't know if any of the Freesat boxes have this capability.

EDIT:

Ron is correct, the quality reading is the one to go for not the signal strength. In simplistic terms the signal strength is a reading of everything that the dish is picking up whereas the quality is focussed just on the one signal you want hence maximum strength does not neccessarily correspond with best alignment.

[Jay]

Using the signal strength on screen indicator may be fine in

the middle of the satellite footprint but is certainly not accurate and nowhere

near as good as using a proper meter. Using a 120cm dish will make a big

difference (you don't say what you use now) as will a quality LMB. Try sealing

the cable LMB connector in a rubber sleeve and polishing the dish with silicon

(the spray you can get for car dashboards - Back to Black or a windscreen water

repellent or similar). All outdoor connections should be treated with silicon

paste. Have a look at this website, he has all you need http://www.satcure.co.uk/, they are very

reliable, have fast delivery and there are a lot of good tips on the site.

I sure hope you are using satellite cable and not coax that you buy for

analogue TV aerials.

[joidevie]

[quote user="Jay"]

I sure hope you are using satellite cable and not coax that you buy for

analogue TV aerials.

[/quote]

Yes I am, though I'd be interested to know the spec data.. The French stuff tends to be with a foil layer inside and much of the stuff in the UK is described differently and seems to have braided copper wire.. 19VATCA... 19PATCPH ?? RG6 ?? WF100??

To make it more complicated, I want black as it will look better on the outside of the barn (French cable is mostly white)..

Thanks

[AnOther]

There are several different cables you could use though quite where you'd source them in France I don't know but I'm sure you must be able to.

Have a look HERE, UK based I know but an indication of what is available.

In the broadest of terms the bigger it is the better it is but once you

start going beyond the typical 6mm stuff that you can simply fit a standard F plug

to you start to run into the need for special tools to fit the

connectors and if you make a bodge of this you can potentially

throw away the advantage of having the better cable in the first place, and maybe more !

The white cable you speak of I would expect to be roughly equivalent to CTF100 and is typical of the stuff a dish installer would routinely use, it has a 3ghz loss of 36.2dB/100m. Next up would be CTF125 (7.8mm dia & 31.00dB/100m) then CTF167 (10.1mm dia & 25.8dB/100m) and finally CTF233 (13mm dia & 20.14dB/100m) which is about as good as it gets but at 13mm dia is considerably harder to work with.

Again, in the very broadest of terms, the improvement you could achieve by using CTF233 as opposed to the basic CTF100 might be the same as going from a 90cm dish to a 2m one which is why I stress that attention to the cable is crucial and always, IMO the preferred starting prior to increasing dish size.

[joidevie]

Thanks for all that great info..

So, as a DIY installer, would you recommend sourcing the best CT100 available rather than say some CT125 (which I have seen on Ebay at £1 a metre) ? And, are the 'screw on' connectors adequate or is it worth investing in a crimping tool? Gold connectors - worth the extra pennies?

Also, some French cable is rated at 19dB (6.8mm) - How does that work out?

Many thanks.

[AnOther]

CT100 is effectively a specification and in theory at least it should all be the same, in practice there is likely to be stuff out there labelled CT100 but inferior in performance but how to discriminate is the problem. Sighting the spec sheet or sticking to reputable manufacurers would seem to be sensible.

The French cable you mention does not appear suitable. First and foremost it is only specced to 3000mhz but also states "utilisation à l'intérieur" which instantly renders it useless anyway, ALL cables for exterior use should be black. Also, saying "19dB" without reference to frequency or length is meaningless.

Regarding CT125 and gold crimp connectors etc., all to the good and may be sufficient to stabilise your system. I don't know what cable you have at the moment however you do say that it has 2 in-line connectors which I think you really MUST get rid of as a matter of priority. How long is the run, why are they there in the first place ?

Assuming your alignment is correct and that you say it works except in heavy rain then I think a single run of CT100 could possibly see you OK and CT125 would practically guarantee it. Being as you need to replace it anyway personally I'd plump for the latter.

[joidevie]

Thanks again.. I may plump for some of this (as it's 25-30m for the setup) and I've found some CT125 screw on F connectors in Maplin.. And hope it doesn't rain too often!

Will a dual LNB affect the signal? (ie. two outputs, not twin headed).. I want to split off and place a second box in an upstairs bedroom..

[Anton Redman]

You have to run to completely separate cable runs all the way to the LNB.

[Tim]

While you are out and about look for something called in English (not sure of the French - sorry ) 'self-amalgamating tape'. It's a 'soft' tape (with a backing you remove) that sticks to itself - cut a piece a few inches long and wrap it around the connector, leaving the nut part free so you can turn it to fit it to the lnb, then cover it with ordinary insulating tape.

I've used this stuff for years and taken apart outside joints over 20 years old and they are still shiney and new inside.

They work much better than these rubber joint covers that are often supplied for this sort of job.

If you want two boxes then you will need two separate feeds from the twin lnb (as Anton says) - and not 'split off' anything, as you say.

Regards - Tim

[joidevie]

[quote user="Anton Redman"]You have to run to completely separate cable runs all the way to the LNB.[/quote]

... Which I will be doing. However, will this lower the signal quality? I have done something similar with the TV aerial and TNT signal - by 'splitting off' ('T'ing off the coax) from the upstairs decoder to another set in the living room. This has caused a poorer signal in the living room and I need to unplug the upstairs set from the coax to get a good enough signal downstairs..

[Tim]

If you have a 'twin LNB' and run a separate cable to each digi box, you are not 'splitting off'' anything. The LNB has two receivers inside and provides a totally separate feed to each box. You will be able to watch different channels on either box - they will be independant of each other.

Tim

[CBC]

@ Martinwatkins

It seems like a little clockwise twist has done the trick!  It will be interesting to see how reception holds up in poor weather.  To answer your last question, our dish is 80cm which we were advised was the minimum needed to get ITV down here.

Thanks again.

CBC in sunny 65

[AnOther]

Just to add a note to Timco's good advice about self-amalgamating tape:

When you use it you tear off a length, peel off the backing, then stretch it to approximately 1/2 it's width, both initially and as you wrap it around whatever you're protecting. Each turn should overlap the previous one by about 1/2 a tapes width then finally you stretch it until it breaks and mould the end into the job, does that make sense ?

It's the stretching action that gives it it's self-amalgamating property and if done properly it becomes effectively a one piece closely moulded rubber boot. Most that I've used 'amalgamate' almost instantly and if you can unwind it after more than a minute or two you've not put it on properly.

Correctly used it's magic, do it incorrectly though and it's worse than nothing because water will get in and be held inside potentially doing more harm than if the connector were totally unprotected.

Sorry if you know all this it's just that it's used extensively offshore (I used some myself yesterday) and I've seen far far to many instances of people who have used it for years still not doing it properly. I've even heard some complain that it's useless because it doesn't stick, which of course it won't because it is not sticky !

Maplin sell it.

How far off topic are we now [:-))]

[:)]