Can you take a puppy to France with no passport? Help please.

[Mulsanne]

Hello,

My mother has a puppy which will be three months old shortly. She has sold up here and intends to travel to France to live there. She is not intending to bring her dog back. She has had it microchipped, has a certificate of good health, BUT, reckons she will be able to take it to France with no pet passport and  no rabies injection . She says that as it is a one way export from a country with no rabies, that she will be ok.

Has anyone heard of people doing this, and is she likely to be able to do it? She certainly won't listen to me, but there's a small chance she'll listen to comments here. Equally there may be people who have done this. Please help!!

[Deimos]

The puppy will need a Pet Passport showing a rabies vaccination, then he/she can enter France 21 days after the rabies vaccination (no blood tests, etc. - just the 21 day wait). To do otherwise would be illegal. France is trying to keep rabies out so does not take kindly to people smuggling in animals (and by the way, there is rabies in the UK).

That is what is needed. Good health certificates are not official travel paperwork - you need the pet passport.

Also, once the pup arrives in France, do get him/her blood tested, etc. so, should the need ever arise he/she can return to the UK. As there is a 6 month delay after a successful blood test before entry into the UK, best to have it done before its needed (when there will not be enough time). It is always disappointing seeing the posts about animals who need to find a new home in France because their owners had tried to save a few € and not done the blood test - then their circumstances change and there is not time for the 6 month delay and their pet cannot return to the UK with them.

Ian

[Christine Animal]

I don't know all the travel laws like Ian does, but you certainly cannot bring a dog into France without a rabies vaccination.  I just wanted to say that I don't think you can do the rabies until the pup is three months old.

 

[Eslier]

Ian is absolutely correct. Up until a couple of years ago it waspossible to bring your pet to France on an Export  Certificate which didn't necessitate   a rabies jab. Since the introduction of the new style  EU Pet Passport this facility  has been withdrawn  and the passport (issued 21 days after the rabies jab) is the only way you can bring a dog to France.

I read recently, that if you are caught by French customs bringing a dog into France without the necessary passport then not only are you subject to a huge fine, the dog is taken away and destroyed. I would urge your mother, therefore, to visit her vet in the UK without delay and organise the microchipping, rabies jab and issue of the EU Passport as soon as the puppy is old enough.

[Christine Animal]

Also, if ever there is a rabies scare in France and a straying dog is taken to a fourrière (pound) in that area, the owner cannot take his dog back unless he is tattooed/microchipped and has his rabies vaccination up to date.  If not, the animal is put down.

 

[Mulsanne]

Thanks very much for the advice. I have since spoken to her and think she may now be convinced!

When I mentioned that les douaniers could terminate her pooch, she sat up and listened!

[chris pp]

Interesting, as there is no requirement in France to have rabies inoculation for dogs, just the tattoo or chip.

I understood that this was in part to prevent an illegal cross border trade, which apparently is quite large, but not from the UK.

Also, of course, there is no rabies in France, Spain or Portugal, except in bats which don't count.

So why if you aren't required to have your dogs inoculated for rabies in France should you have to if you are bringing one from the UK?

Chris 

[Christine Animal]

If you turn it the other way round Chris (and I don't know the answer) are you required to have your dogs inoculated for rabies in England?

 

[Bud]

I would advice, speak to a vet about this or goto the DEFRA website.

I bought a dog over from the UK just under 3 years ago on an export certificate, didnt need a rabies jab. Just normal boosters and a microchip. If youre not planning on taking the dog back to the UK its a lot cheaper and quicker process than the pet passport scheme. Hadnt heard that the export option had stopped.

[Deimos]

The Pet Passport scheme is not expensive - my vet gave me two and filled them in for free. Takes only a couple of minutes for a vet to fill in the Pet Passport and the booklet itself is trivial (cost wise) - so even if a vet charged for it it would be nothing (unless you are being ripped-off).

3 years ago it is quite true that you could do things on an export health certificate. However, the Pet Passport did not exist then and, with the introduction of the Pet Passport the rules have changed. Using 3 year old rules will not help you now (and will risk getting you into trouble).

DEFRA might be able to offer some advice. However, their concern and area of responsibility is primarily the regulations for animals entering the UK. For animals entering France the French authorities are more appropriate..

Ian

[Catalpa]

Two-and-a-half years ago we bought our two dogs in on export licences. They were chipped and rabies-jabbed but at that time it wasn't required, just export papers.

Eleven months ago we bought in two kittens - they had to be chipped and rabies-jabbed and our vet provided the passports. They could not have the rabies jab before they were 3 months old and could not travel for a further 21 days from the date of the jab which is, of course, on the passport.

In the UK, dogs (and cats) are not required to be chipped (or tattooed) or to be jabbed for anything, including rabies. Though of course, it's sensible to do the distemper / parvo etc annually.

Chris-pp said:

So why if you aren't required to have your dogs inoculated for rabies

in France should you have to if you are bringing one from the UK?

I think it is because all EU countries must be treated equally so if rabies jabs are required for entry from some EU countries, the same regulations must apply to all countries. Even the UK.[6] I suppose it's the one law fits all thing. But someone else may have a better (or different) understanding of this.

[P]

Ian

You have a amned good vet. It cost us just under £200 as our dog was already chipped. The cost was for the vaccination, test and the passport, which cost £58 if memory serves me correctly.

There is also a diffrence in rabies jabs between the UK and France - in the UK they are every other year and in France every year.

Paul 

[Catalpa]

And you must have the annual rabies jab done before the date of the previous year's injection. If not (we missed by a couple of days[:@]) you start the whole process again: blood test a month after the jab + the 6 months wait before animal may travel back to the UK.

[Maddie]

[quote user="P"]There is also a diffrence in rabies jabs between the UK and France - in the UK they are every other year and in France every year.

Paul [/quote]

Ah, but it is, in fact, the very same vaccine!

[Deimos]

P said: "You have a amned good vet. It cost us just under £200 as our dog was already chipped. The cost was for the vaccination, test and the passport, ..."

You are confusing a few things. Firstly your pet do not need a blood test to get a Pet Passport. This is only required if you are returning to the UK - thus the cost of the blood test is NOT part of the cost of a Pet Passport. Secondly, I live in France and thus in practice need to get my dogs rabies boosters each year with or without any Pet Passport - thus the cost of the rabies boosters is NOT part of the cost of a Pet Passport. In France your dog must be either chipped or tattooed - thus the cost of this identification is NOT part of the cost of a Pet Passport. What is left - 5 mins filling in a small booklet.

Don't forget that to have a dog in France (in practice) your dog should have ID and rabies anyway.

£200 in the UK does not surprise me (though it was cheaper when I lived there (I think my total bill chip, rabies twice, blood test was £150 and prices have probably gone up). However, costs in France are much more variable and for me the cost of a chip, rabies twice & blood test was 88 Euros (paperwork was free).

The rabies vaccine my vet uses is identical to the vaccine my vet used in the UK. The difference is in how long the regulatory bodies accept the vaccine is effective for. If you live in France you should really have your dog vaccinated each year by a French vet to get the official vaccination certificate (which is not issued by UK vets as it is a French thing and is what all the French authorities recognise). When I showed my vet by dog's UK rabies vaccination record (showing boosters every year - pre Pet Passport days) he did not understand it and issued him with a blue French vaccination certificate (1st year vaccination).

Ian

[Eslier]

We asked our French vet about the difference in the time required between boosters and his answer was interesting. Three or four years ago there was a dog somewhere in the south of France which contracted rabies (from a fox it was deduced). This dog had been given the rabies vaccine three years before, so we know for certain that the vaccine is not effective after three years. The vet's opinion was that two years was too close to three years for comfort and that vaccinating each year provided a more effective safety buffer.

[Deimos]

Eslier said: "Three or four years ago there was a dog somewhere in the south of France which contracted rabies (from a fox it was deduced). This dog had been given the rabies vaccine three years before ..."

The difficult thing is knowing how effective the vaccine was in the individual dog three years before it contracted rabies. Different breeds take to vaccines differently (some react better to certain vaccines than others, some worse). Also, the animals recent health history, age when first vaccinated, frequency of vaccinations, etc. can all have an effect as to the level of immunity from a vaccination. As France has no blood testing to check how well the rabies vaccine has "taken" one will not know the level of immunity in the individual dog. In addition, a level of immunity is in effect a statistical thing that alters the probability of catching a disease for a given level of infection. Thus, it is possible that the individual dog concerned did have more than "adequate" immunity but was either suffering a bit at the time (just a bit "run down") or the level of infection from the fox was very high.

Some vets do all the vaccinations at the same time (regular set plus rabies). This is thought by some to be less effective - though I must confess it is what I do.

When I got my first dog vaccinated against rabies in the UK (for the then Pet Travel Scheme), the vet said that data suggested 20% of dogs would fail to acquire adequate levels of antibodies after a single vaccination and hence the recommendation of a booster a month later. He did say that it was "early day" and these figures would change as more people went through the scheme.

Many people (myself included) think we tend to vaccinate our pets too often. This in itself can reduce their effectiveness. If is a good thing that DEFRA do not require repeat blood tests for those living in France as, with rabies vaccinations each year a number of dogs who originally passed the antibody test will fail in later life.

Ian

[Mulsanne]

Well she didn't listen to me and yes she sailed right through!

Say's she'll do the rabies jab in France.

 

[cooperlola]

Please would somebody explain to me why anybody would not want their pet protected against even the vague possibility of contracting rabies or any other of the horrible deseases/viruses it is possible to vaccinate against?  Surely a small expense compared to feeding and caring for them throughout their lives.

[Deimos]

The ultimate in irresponsibility. Such disregard for the care of a dog - she should not be allowed to keep a dog.

The interesting thing now will be with a UK chip, young dog with no rabies history - when she comes to have the 1st vaccination done it "how did the dog get into France". If it had a French ID then nothing untoward but with a UK chip - must have entered France and the French are tough on illegally imported dogs.

Ian

[Darren, Vicky and Amelia]

Hello

 

We moved here over 4 years ago, and when we moved we bought with us our Cavalier King Charles puppy who was only 12 weeks old. As he was so young he couldn't be passported and if I remember he couldn't have the rabies jab either. She will need to put him under "export" not pasport. If she contacts DEFRA they will tell her what is needed, as it may have changed since we did it, Our puppy needed to se the vet within 24 hours of travelling, and get a certificate to say he was healthy and fit for travel. When we came over no-one checked any of this, in UK or France.

 

When he was old enough though we did get all his jabs done and still do, you can't be too careful!

 

Good luck

Vicky

[Chezstevens]

All changed in 2004. Previous info is correct so your friend has done something incredibly stupid. It is only 3 weeks or a month between vaccine and having pet passport valid - you do not need the bloodtest unless returning to the UK.

Actions by people like your friend will deny cross-border migration of pets for all.

So I guess that will be another animal adandoned or destroyed when it gets too difficult.