What Dog?

[Richard T]

I know next to nothing about dogs so I am hoping to get some advice here.

My son who is 25 has recently moved to France (87) to renovate a house that we have bought. The house is isolated with a large area of woodland around it. He lives alone and has been talking about getting a dog for both companionship and, to a lesser extent, to help him feel secure in the house.

My question is what sort of dog would be best for him bearing in mind:

- there's plenty of room for the dog to run around

- my son probably wouldn't be too disciplined about training and exercise

- he is likely to keep chickens at the house in due course

- I have a three year old grandson who is likely to be a fairly regular visitor

- my son doesn't have much money so I guess he wouldn't want a dog with a big appetite or one that might require expensive vet bills.

Also are there French regulations which need to be considered?

Thanks for your help.

Richard T

[Magnolia]

Hi Richard

From what you've written I would suggest that your son doesn't get a dog at all. All animals are a commitment and can be costly no matter what their size. Your son basically wants something to protect him - well, I suggest he gets himself a woman [:-))]!!!!! At least a woman can fend for herself - she can feed herself if she's hungry (unlike a dog), she can go to the doctors if she's unwell (unlike a dog), she doesn't need training or exercising (unlike a dog), she won't eat your chickens (actually, that's debateable), she won't attack or bother your grandson (as long as she's not a child hater), if you get yourself a good woman her bite will be as good as a dog's and she only need visit at night when your son needs protecting!

On a more serious note though, I think it would be extremely irresponsible of your son to get a dog as he will obviously expect it to behave itself (not chase the chickens or jump all over your grandchild) yet he won't be willing to put in the time and effort to train it. I see a big red flag flying here [:'(]

 

[Russethouse]

On the other hand perhaps a few positive pointers would change Richards son into a responsible dog owner, I'm sorry Magnolia but I see your post as being at variance with the familiar plea for homes for strays etc. Much as we might hope to find excellent/perfect  homes for every dog the truth is that some  would be owners need a few words of encouraging support.

The dog that came to my mind was Spot, the stray that Christine Animal has, but what do I know, its a long time since I have been a dog owner and with that attitude its probably going to be even longer now. [:@]

[mint]

I can see Magnolia's point of view and, to a lesser extent, RH's.  The vital thing to remember is that the dog will be totally dependent on the OP's son for practically all its needs.  Is he able or willing to take on the responsibility of dog ownership?

Only the son can answer this honestly.  I hope for the sake of the dog that he knows what he is taking on.

[Frenchie]

Anyway, not a lab or anything X husky, most of them would escape from a garden that is not enclosed..

Maybe a breed that is more independant, Christine might be able to give good advice , yes ..

[Christine Animal]

No, no advice on this one.  I don't know the son, where they are, if the garden is fenced and above all if he is ready for the responsibility.

Sorry, my mistake, they are in the 87.

 

[Pads]

I would ask your son how much committment h is prepared to put into a dogs care,?

I currently probally spend one third of my day  feeding , walking, training, cleaning up after and general care of my dog, thats apart from when I have to take her to the vets. This is nine years down the line from her joining our house, as a puppy/ young dog, that was probally 3 years of having to spend a lot more time on the training. Another 3rd of my time is spend in just being a companion and the little time I have left , doing my own thing going to work cleaning house ect .... while she potters around the garden or sleeps.

You cant just go away for a night or week end and leave the dog in the house, you cant pop back to england for a week without expensive kennels fees. Good dog food cost as well as flea and worm treatment and vets. toys and bedding  We probally spend on average over 2000 pounds each year on our dog.

Has your son had pets before ? how did he look after them ?

Remember a bored lonely dog will cause a lot more damage in a house than a burglar!! Try replacing a whole kitchen that a bored dog has chewed the doors off , [:)]

But we all had to be first time dogs owners and I for one had a lot to learn and a whole live style to change to fit in  with my first dog.        

[Richard T]

I'm really disappointed at the negative responses I have had to a simple request for advice.

Of course none of you know my son nor how responsible, comitted or otherwise he is but I laid out a number of criteria and asked what sort of dog would be likely to fit the bill. In other words how can my son start thinking about what sort of dog would be best for both him and the dog?

Surely every dog owner has to start somewhere but I guess France Forum is not the place!

Oh well.

Richard T

[Magnolia]

Hi Richard

Firstly, i'd like to apologise for my email reading so negatively (when I was doing it I actually thought it was quite funny) however, you must appreciate that what you wrote didn't sound too positive from a dog owners point of view. In my opinion, all dogs no matter their breed or size require alot of work, time, effort and money. Yes, your son could get a small dog that needs less food but it will still want exercise, training, attention and yearly visits to the vet. What you've experienced here is replies from existing dog owners who understand the commitment and work that go into dogs - no matter their breed.

All i'm saying is that your son should maybe take a bit of time to consider whether or not he wants to commit to the work and commitment that goes with a dog. 

[:)]  

[Richard T]

[quote user="Magnolia"]Firstly, i'd like to apologise for my email reading so negatively (when I was doing it I actually thought it was quite funny) however, you must appreciate that what you wrote didn't sound too positive from a dog owners point of view.[/quote]

Hi Magnolia,

Thanks for the serious reply. I'm not sure what I said in my original post that "didn't sound too positive". I was merely trying to set the scene. If I'd just said "what sort of dog should I get" then you'd quite rightly want to know a bit  more detail about it's likely surroundings and the reasons for thinking about getting a dog. I thought I'd try to anticipate those questions. Instead what I got felt like dog owners telling me that only dog owners should ever become dog owners!

Whilst my knowledge of dogs is limited (but I can bore you for hours about cats!) I know enough to understand that different breeds have different characteristics: some are more suitable for families, some more suitable as working dogs, some more demanding of attention (and maybe some less likely to eat chickens!) so what I'm trying to understand as a starting point is that, given the scene I set, which breed is more likely to fit the bill. From there we can do some more research and understand the sort of comitment my son will have to make and he can then decide for himself whether he is prepared to make that comitment.

Richard T

[Hoddy]

My nearest neighbour here in France has a very sweet-natured Border Collie bitch. She doesn't attack the hens or ducks although she can occasionally be seen rounding them up. She is excellent with children and is willing to be subjected to all sorts of minor indiginities by them.

She barks loudly whenever anyone approaches, but probably wouldn't defend you if you were actually being attacked. She does sound very fierce though and might deter strangers. This breed might be worth your consideration.

 

Hoddy

[Christine Animal]

You still haven't said if the property is fenced Richard.  I would agree with Hoddy and was thinking more of a German Shepherd type adult if your son is not too disciplined about training, they are less likely to go after chickens than a gundog type.

But you say your son does not have much money and wouldn't want a dog with a big appetite or that may require expensive vet bills.  Noone can tell in advance with any dog what the future vet bills may be.  Any dog will cost something to purchase or adopt, have costs for food and the annual vaccinations, as has already been said.

The most important would be your son's motivation.  Is he willing to take on a dog for about fifteen years, is he going to stay in France forever?  If not, is he ready to get the dog passported in case he goes back and not leave him here.  If he wants to go back to England for stays is he willing and able to pay for the kennels here while he is away?

 

[mint]

Sensible questions from Christine, as you would expect.  Richard, don't think that everyone is just being "negative" for no good reason.

I must admit that we are all probably doting dog owners and lovers and hopelessly biased in favour of dogs but your first post did ring some alarm bells for me.

Like Magnolia, I must apologise if I came across as "negative".  For your information, we gave a home to a little dog (simply because we felt sorry for her) and she has, to all intents and purposes, altered all our plans for our retirement.

We meant to travel, live in a small lock-up-and-leave home, be able to be entirely selfish, etc.  Instead of which we now have a large garden for the dog to run around in and we more or less stayed put all last summer as it was too hot for the dog to travel in the car.

Then, earlier this year, we took her back to the UK (at the bequest of the grandchildren) and she was so incredibly good, staying in hotels, enduring the noise of the train, etc. etc.  But the OH and I were completely stressed out with worry about the effect of all the changes on the dog, so we have sworn never to do it again.

I am telling you all this just to emphasise to you that animals can and do "take over" your whole life.  Many people spoke with the best of intentions, so I hope you don't think we were being deliberately obstructive or purposely misunderstanding your request.  

 

[Richard T]

[quote user="Christine Animal"]You still haven't said if the property is fenced Richard.  I would agree with Hoddy and was thinking more of a German Shepherd type adult if your son is not too disciplined about training, they are less likely to go after chickens than a gundog type.[/quote]

The property is surrounded by 4000 sq metres of woodland and although technically it is fenced the fence needs major repairs. There are only two other properties within, say, 500 metres  - both used as holiday homes and both properly fenced - and then nothing for at least 2km in any direction. In other words it's a very rural area, mostly forest and little in the way of livestock.

A friend of mine has a German Shephard - a magnificent dog but seems extremely demanding.

[quote]But you say your son does not have much money and wouldn't want a dog with a big appetite or that may require expensive vet bills.  Noone can tell in advance with any dog what the future vet bills may be.  Any dog will cost something to purchase or adopt, have costs for food and the annual vaccinations, as has already been said.[/quote]

Actually I support my son who is, in effect, working for me. So although we would both like to keep the bills as low as possible there would be no shortage of money for essential vet bills etc.

[quote]The most important would be your son's motivation.  Is he willing to take on a dog for about fifteen years, is he going to stay in France forever?  If not, is he ready to get the dog passported in case he goes back and not leave him here.  If he wants to go back to England for stays is he willing and able to pay for the kennels here while he is away?[/quote]

My son's motivation is that he lives alone in a rural area and, not unnaturally, he would like some companionship. Whilst he may prove not be entirely disciplined when it comes to exercise or training (an that's only my assumption at the moment)  he has been around small animals (but not dogs) all his life so I have absolutely no doubt that he would reciprocate any companionship.

It's not entirely clear whether he will stay in France long term but again if there are costs involved in passporting they will be met without question.

If one has never previoulsy owned a dog then I guess it's impossible to say for sure how you will cope with the long term comitment. But that applies equally to having children. As a father of  four it's quite possible that with the benefit of hindsight I might have avoided having children altogether but sometimes you just have to go with what your heart says. In the case of children I'm so glad I did.

Richard T

[Russethouse]

Many area's have dog training classes, that may both help the dog and mean that your son meets some people who live in the area.

[nectarine]

It's been some years since we owned a dog (a West Highland Terrier) but with our impending move to France we plan to get another one, and for exactly the same reasons as Richard's son - companionship, an early warning system, etc.  Now I'm not a dog expert and can only talk from experience of owning a Westie but the one we had was an excellent companion, guarded his territory well, barked at strangers, was well behaved with the kids and didn't eat us out of house and home.  Also, when we went away we often found willing dogsitters for him to stay at - people who would baulk at taking a Lab or Alsation but who didn't mind having a smaller dog in the house.

I'm sure there are temperamental Westies around but a dog's temperament will generally match his owner.  Bad tempered owner equals snappy dog.  We put in strong discipline with him (it was important to remind him who was leader of the pack) but it was well rewarded with a loyal dog. 

Anyway, just my experience and I hope it helps.  Perhaps a smaller dog for Richard's son might at least keep the food bills down.

[Russethouse]

When I owned a dog it was a Lab/lurcher cross - a baptism of fire, later we had a Labrador live here, but she was never truly 'my' dog. (But she was impeccably behaved !)

The one dog I have often hankered after is a dachshund, but I was once told that the wire haired, long haired and short haired dogs have very different natures....a small dog may be the best bet, but whatever you get, please try and get a dog from a rescue .......

[Val_2]

We took on our first ever dog last year as a new pup and it is a 24/7/365 commitment which we were prepared to do. He is a Shiba Inu but not recommended if you want a dog off the leash as this breed can never run free except in a very well enclosed space and then they have been known  to leap 6ft as they are a breed thousands of years old and originally a wild dog in Japan where they were also used to hunt birds and for dog fighting. On the plus side,he is very intelligent and loyal with great affection for our three cats who he has taken to looking after and they him. The big drawback is the twice a year fur shed which comes out in balls not loose hair and looks like they have mange from the sheer amount of the "blowing".At not a year old yet we have this to look forward to. Just in case you decide to choose this breed and don't realise what you are letting yourself in for.

[Kitty]

Having a dog in France is expensive if you want to return to the UK from time to time.  You have to get it chipped and vaccinated to get its passport (about £180).  Then every time you go back with the dog, you have to visit the vet for worming etc (45 euros), have room in your car and stop regularly (adding time to the journey).  You have to pay for a place on the ferry (there and back) - read thread below.  You can't fly back, of course, unless you leave the dog here when you have to pay for kennels (10 euros per day). 

Once here, the dog has to have annual rabies injections to comply with French regulations - my last lot of vaccinations cost 80 euros.  This is on top of the other vets' bills that you face.  My dog, for example, picked up an insect bite on its rear (unusual in the UK but common in France) and that treatment cost 160 euros.

I find sacks of dog food expensive here and so buy sacks in the UK twice per year.

This gives you some idea of the financial commitment that you son must be prepared to face.  I can tell you, dog owning is not cheap!

Here is a thread about taking a dog on a ferry crossing:

http://www.completefrance.com/cs/forums/1177518/ShowPost.aspx

Good luck!

[Frenchie]

Cathy, a bit pessimistic maybe ...

?

I have a big dog    Lab X husky   

Yearly injections at my vet's = 50 euros

I give him friski*s biscuits, I know, it  s not the best but it is not that bad, and he s perfectly fine..

Though being a big dog ( 35 kilos now) , he doesn't eat that much.. The vet says it is due to his Husky origins.

Of course there is a cost to oiwning a dog, but I think it is mainly about finding the right doig for the right person here..

Loving them is the main thing I assume. And taking one's responsibilities never to let them down. So yes, one should think twice but not necessarily give up  the plan of owning a dog.

 Don't consider a husky, they don't bark ! [:)]

[louis]

I have a big dog - a standard poodle, you may laugh but he is completely loyal, barks when strangers approach and because of his size nobody comes near him until I assure them he is ok to touch.  The standard poodle is a very intelligent breed, doesn't need hours of exercise, hasn't a big appetite.  The downside of course is that he has to go to a groomer every four months to keep his coat short, but then again he doesn't moult and get hair everywhere.

[Kitty]

[quote user="Frenchie"]

Cathy, a bit pessimistic maybe ...?[/quote]

Frenchie - When I had 4 dogs (all Labradors) in the UK and stayed in the UK, it was much cheaper keeping the dogs.  But I have discovered that the cost mounts when you have a dog here in France and regularly take it back to the UK.  That is why I only have one Labrador now.

 

[Val_2]

Frenchie, my dog dosn't bark either being a Japanese Husky but he screams very high pitched and howls along when we sing songs. Again like yours he dosn't eat much either and is very much like a cat with his washing habits and was house broken completely within a few months of birth.

[Frenchie]

What does " house broken " mean please? [:$]

[Jacqui Too]

[quote user="Frenchie"]What does " house broken " mean please? [:$][/quote]

Means House trained, no toilet accidents in the house.[:D]