Life in France IS not for everyone!

[Deby]

Our village and surroundings (agglo) have recently experienced a rather large influx of English, I suppose we would also be considered one of those new English families too.

A french friend brought/introduced this new family to us and I am always only keen to be hospitable and welcoming and offer a few friendly tips.  I popped in on them to see how they were doing and was very shocked to discover that they were terrified of insects (this is the countryside), going to rip out the perfectly good shutters, install two gas fires in there lovely open fireplaces as in their own words 'french people are a bit basic' unlike us civilised English!  I did ask why the were going to do this(the fires) - the reason - well the mess and the convenience of gas - far easier than an open fire.

I smiled politely of course, my head was racing with all the things that they might want to consider, cost, efficiency, blah, blah.

I give this family a year.

Of course they dont speak a word of French, I informed them there is a college nearby that offers lessons for free - their response, oh we are too old to learn (they're in early fifties at the most)!

Well if they are reading this forum, I do apologise for my bitching, but if they had found this forum then they should have at least done a little bit of research before moving.

Please prospective house buyers take off those rose-tinted specs before buying rent first, or even invest in a holiday home and test the water, but don't plunder your life savings with a notion of everythings' is good in France and everything is bad in Britain.  Britain still has all those creature comforts you know.

[Logan]

In this life we are all very diverse in our opinions and aspirations. Who is the arbiter of what is good or bad taste? It largely depends on your own values how you see things. A wood fire is fine for you and me but we are not all the same. It is possible to live a certain kind of life in France and not speak the language. Again it depends of how you want to live and how you are fixed financially. It's possible to live a life in France completely separate from the French if that's what suits you. This in my opinion is why France is a great country in which to live. You can do your own thing and ignore the rest. Conformity is a matter of choice.

[Neil]

Deby, do you have gaz de ville? I should have thought gas fires would be hideously expensive otherwise.

[Jirac18]

"If my answers frighten you then cease to ask me questions"

In future perhaps don't offer advice up front but wait for newcomers French or English to come to you. We all have differing opinions although in this case I do agree that it seems nuts in rural France to try to live like suburban England.

Sounds a bit like Albert Square Walford - new family moves in and all the locals do a Dot Cotton and want to advise whats best. Let people settle in and if they need help they will come. Perhaps just give them they LF forum address and they can have all the help they want.

 

[Teamedup]

Well there insurance likely won't work sans shutters. So they should be told to check with their insurers first. Most companies insist upon them.

And gas fires, where can one buy gas fires here? never ever seen one, which is not to say you can't get them, just I haven't seen them.

[Nathalie]

There are a proportion of people who seem want to live a British life abroad, and that includes changing the house to an English-style property and not wanting to learn the language or integrate into the French community .  That is their choice, and it's their loss entirely in my view.

I'm surprised they didn't come out with "France would be great if it wasn't for the French"!

A work colleague went house hunting in France, and didn't like any of the houses she saw, obviously comparing the difference between English properties and French ones.  So she's gone for new build and so far nothing has gone to plan.  We found the house of our dreams at house view no.3 - and it has shutters and fireplaces and we wouldn't change a thing.  But we're all different, but I'm with you on this one Deby.

Nathalie

 

 

 

[Logan]

[quote]There are a proportion of people who seem want to live a British life abroad, and that includes changing the house to an English-style property and not wanting to learn the language or integrate into ...[/quote]

I am interested to know what this word "integrate" actually means when used in this context. I hear it a lot from Brits who describe it as an aspiration on coming to live in France. My dictionary defines integrate as 'to be made into part of the whole.' Do emigrae Brits suppose it's possible to become French? I guess it depends on your situation and the individual but I think to become French you need to be born here or at least lived here through childhood. My point is that it is almost impossible for Brits to be anything else in France but 'Les Anglais'. The French will never accept you as anything else no matter how well you speak the language or mix socially with the locals. You can live and work here for 30 years and you will still be an English ex-patriot. I often see and hear unrealistic expectations from British immigrants here. After all if the roles were reversed and the French moved to the UK would they ever be regarded as anything else but French? It's just the way it is.

[Teamedup]

I never aspired to becoming french. I did aspire to become part of my community, which I suppose is the whole group in this sense. Everyone knows I'm l'anglaise, it doesn't matter that I am. I do my bit in the community. Most people know me, I have friends, some are very good and close friends and I even have the odd enemy.   What more can one ask anywhere.

 

[Athene]

[quote]I never aspired to becoming french. I did aspire to become part of my community, which I suppose is the whole group in this sense. Everyone knows I'm l'anglaise, it doesn't matter that I am. I do my b...[/quote]

I think our mayor summed it up for us when he said to us that in our area there are some really dreadful Brits, the point and grunt brigade he calls them. They have no intention of learning the language, ignore their neighbours and when they are not understood in local shops, well they shout louder! Really useful! I have to say that these Brits are the ones who knock everything English and are escaping from their troubles over here but, 'sure as eggs is eggs', they will not get on in France either! It is all a question of time!

Yes I agree, one cannot ever become French but I personally am proud of being English and would not want to change my nationality. I think our French friends understand this and respect me for it. After all, that is how they feel about being French!

We live in the countryside and we get on really well with our French neighbours. We have a great time, everyone joins in together. Yes we are lucky, we do speak French fluently but I think it is more a matter of being out-going and generally caring and sharing.

[Val_2]

Reading these replies it has just occurred to me that in a minimum of twenty years or more there are going to be a hell of a lot of new franco/british families starting new" dynasties" here. With this phenomenal influx of british people currently taking place which has never been seen before in France,comes their offspring who will no doubt intermarry and start their own families which in turn down the generations to come will continue on the male side with english surnames and french christian names as you do ocassionally see in the phone book. I'm just having one of those moments today when thinking can be dangerous and have used the word dynasties because I can't think of anything else to describe the setting up of a new family line.

[Logan]

[quote]Reading these replies it has just occurred to me that in a minimum of twenty years or more there are going to be a hell of a lot of new franco/british families starting new" dynasties" here. With this...[/quote]

Thinking is never dangerous Val. I only wish folk would do a bit more of it!

A large chunk of France namely Aquitaine was part of England for a couple of centuries. The descendants of the English who occupied, lived and bred there must be now part of the social fabric. No doubt they would never consider themselves anything else but French. The point being that the world is a global village and it's the social conditioning which makes us who we are. It only takes a generation. The children of the current wave of émigré Brits will become French in time if they stay here long enough. However for the parents it's a different matter. Their dye is cast.

[Teamedup]

Logan, I hadn't been here long when I saw a report about the brits around Bordeaux. It was a long time ago and well before everyone started moving here ie mid 1980's at the latest. The families had been here for  a couple of centuries and had british passports. I have no idea how that worked, but that is what was said. And certainly one bloke had a public school accent. It was all to do with the claret trade. I suppose that these people still live there and run their businesses. (Suspect that the report was romancing this a little, but there was truth in it too, ie the bloke who was interviewed)

Has anyone met any of these old families that have been installed for so long.

Val2, some of us have kids who move back to the UK too. I know of quite a lot of kids who have moved back and usually for either university and/or employment. You know what youth employment figures are like here.

[Blackadder<IMG src="http:forums.livingfrance.comimagesline.gif"><BR>Blackadder<BR>Keighley and Creuse]

I don't really think you can use the full dictionary version of integrate in this context. My idea of it is.....

I run a small village Youth Club set up with a few other parents up here in rural West Yorkshire (i know that sounds contradictory, rural and west yorkshire!)

Due to moves etc we are now down to 4 adults to help, plus a couple of 17/18 year olds (they aren't all bad) we desperately need at least a couple more helpers. Most local parents can't be bothered, if a french family lived here, yes they'd always be French but if either or both adults came to help, they are far more'intergrated' into our local life and scene than the die hard locals who have lived here for generations.

I would hope to be 'accepted' in the same way in France.

I imagine most if not all people on this forum would be like that, getting stuck in, going to the village fetes etc, you are all on here, after all, to widen your knowledge and share experiences.

My big fear when we bought a barn to do up in the Creuse was that locals wouldn't accept us, ignore us or see us as some rich Brits come to make a quick buck. They have been friendly, but thankfully not overly. They know we are not rich (which may help) and the big thing is that we try to speak French to them, we use the bakers van for buying bread and queue up in line with them etc etc.

We are no differant as a 'people', most of us are honest, decent hard working who will put as much if not more into a community as the average Joe, with just a few, a small minority who are selfish and are after all they can get. These are the ones that get publicised 'cos it sells papers and makes for an 'interesting' read. The majority of people are educated enough to know this and take people as they find them.

End of sermon.

[Nathalie]

Yes, people shouldn’t want to lose their identity, by integration I meant getting to know your French neighbours, not just the British ones, becoming familiar with the culture and the language – AND NOT COMPLAINING OR PICKING HOLES INTO EVERYTHING THAT IS DIFFERENT ABOUT FRANCE!! We’re talking about two different countries here, some people move here because they like those differences, some people, some would say naïve, move here because they misguidedly think there is no crime, that the government is perfect, the weather always good, and that you can buy a week’s shopping and still get change out of a 10 euro note!!! – getouttahere!!!! The grass isn’t always greener, it’s just a different shade.

My mother, who is English, lived for 30 years in France married to my French father and she spent all that time being completely uninterested in learning the language, thereby having trouble at French dinner parties following the conversations with friends (it’s difficult enough in English once everyone gets going!) amongst other things. During her time here she complained constantly about missing England, fish and chips, baked beans, the health service, you name it, she missed it. When my father died and she came back to live in England, she’s done nothing but complain about our Health Service, the food, how she misses the French way of life, and she doesn’t touch baked beans or fish and chips! She now wants to move back, because in France she would actually have a better quality of life as a pensioner. So how ironic is that.

I also think that if people have the attitude that the French will never accept them, then with that mindset it's bound to happen, giving out subconscious "you'll never want to get to know me" vibes.  The French always accepted my mother - despite her rotten French.  And I live in North Yorkshire - I can live here for 100 years and still be regarded as an "incomer"!! 

Maybe it’s human nature, but whilst people spend their time picking holes in everything, they’re missing the point – enjoy life, you only get one shot at it.

Right, I’m packing my soapbox away now. Tata.

[Logan]

[quote]Yes, people shouldn’t want to lose their identity, by integration I meant getting to know your French neighbours, not just the British ones, becoming familiar with the culture and the language – AND N...[/quote]

The subject of personal identity or how we see ourselves is interesting. We arrive in France as immigrants totally fixed on an identity which is formed from where ever we come from. We want to integrate and be accepted in the local community. Make friends and behave in an acceptable manner within the cultural values we find. So far so good. However, after a while, a few years maybe how do we feel? Is it like loosing a religion setting aside your former identity? How many of us are or have become culturally schizophrenic. I mean living one comfortable way in private the English way if you like, and then being French in the public arena or among our French friends so we become more acceptable. I have often felt the pressure to conform to these French acceptable norms. This in the face of a more instinctive way of being and feeling uncomfortable as a result. Perhaps it's an 'age' thing but I like the identity I'm more comfortable with.

[Athene]

[quote]The subject of personal identity or how we see ourselves is interesting. We arrive in France as immigrants totally fixed on an identity which is formed from where ever we come from. We want to integra...[/quote]

Hi!

I am intrigued with the last letter that said they had a way of living privately that was English and a 'put on' way of going about things publically with French friends that was different! I would be interested if you could expand on this.

 I have never found I have to be anything other than myself with our French friends. We laugh at the same jokes, comment together on world news and swap recipes, share tools and ways of doing things etc etc. This summer we had to lay a floating, concrete floor in the kitchen/living room, our French neighbour came to give us a hand and showed us a much better way to do it! Our neighbours had to attend a hospital for a consultant's appointment, so we looked after their aged mother. And so it goes on - taking the best from the two countries' realms of experience and sharing.

I am sure other people must know what I mean?

[Jirac18]

athene, I have to agree. One of the things I like here in France is that we are not judged. We are just the family that live in the hamlet, like a laugh, a chat, glass of wine and help out at the village fetes and school where our daughter goes. The locals don't care what car we drive or how big our house is or how much money we make or have. We are just us, plain and simple. It is such a breath of fresh air. For the first time in so long we are taken on face value. I love it 

[Logan]

[quote]Hi! I am intrigued with the last letter that said they had a way of living privately that was English and a 'put on' way of going about things publically with French friends that was different! I wou...[/quote]

My post was meant to be abstract.I was writing about personal identity. Or to put it another way... who you are or how you see yourselves. Perhaps not many folk ask this question or consider it much. However, I believe it's a gateway to personal fulfilment. Do you see yourselves as British and becoming French? Or alternatively firmly British, yet living in France and remaining that way for the duration of your lives. You see I find it odd that anyone would want to fully integrate into French society and yet keep and hold on to a British or any other personal identity. It's like having your cake and eating it too.

[SaligoBay]

But you have a British "identity" that you can't dispose of without physically removing part of your brain.

If you were born in Britain and spent, say, the first 20 years of your life there, that's what made you what you are.  No French person I know would expect me to completely forget my roots as if my ancestry and traditions were completely worthless.   

It's not worth getting too profound about it.  I've now spent one-tenth of my life in France.  Am I to pretend the other nine tenths didn't exist?  Doh, might as well be brain-dead!     

Or have I missed your point?  What does "being French" mean anyway, and why should we aspire to it?

[Athene]

[quote]But you have a British "identity" that you can't dispose of without physically removing part of your brain. If you were born in Britain and spent, say, the first 20 years of your life there, that's w...[/quote]

Well said Saligo! Friendship transcends race!