Incontinent dog

[Mrs Trellis]

I mentioned this under the thread 'Dog blind in one eye'.

Well, after a couple of months we still have the problem of a dog who pees lakes and never asks to go out!  We try to nip him out as often as poss but he's unpredictable.  He goes through the night - well between 5 and 7 hours - and I leap out of bed when I hear him moving around and get him outside.  But two afternoons running he's peed on the floor when we were here - he didn't bark or try to attract attention.  It was all over the room today and took a whole roll of kitchen towel...

The problem is we are moving soon to a house where we spent a fair bit on a wooden floor which would be ruined if the dog continues like this.  We could try to confine him to the kitchen but that seems harsh and we'd still have to mop up - not hygenic.  It seems even worse to make him an outside run - what's the point of having him if he isn't allowed indoors? The same applies to an indoor cage and anyway we haven't room for one on a permanent basis.

Getting to wits' end and OH is saying we'll have to return doggie to the rescue charity.  He seems happy here and has put on weight.  I'd hate to give up on any animal but this one is making life difficult.  Sigh!

[Russethouse]

What does the vet say about it?

[Mrs Trellis]

I haven't asked recently.  At first she thought it might be the tablets for his heart murmur but she changed them as they were also diuretic.

We thought it might be just a settling in thing as our previous 2 dogs had a few accidents at first - but this is going on too long.

[Chouette]

We have had a similar problem with a little yorkie, that we rescued a few months ago, I started to take her outside every hour and stayed outside with her until I was sure she had performed, I noticed that she would come and make a fuss of me as if she was asking for a lot of attention very persistently, but then realised that this was her way of asking to go outside or for food, so you could say she trained me, if you pay attention to you dogs behaviour you may discover that he has his own way of asking to be let outside, I found that my own dog would not go out on her own and needed to be with me at all times, she had a separation problem probably due to to being lost or abandoned and therefore would only go out if I went out with her.

One other thing I would like to mention is that Apple Cider Vinegar is very good for urinary tract problems and I found with another dog who was elderly and had become incontinent at night as soon as I started to use a little ACV in her water the problem stopped immediately, this might also help.

[PaulT]

With a rescue dog a couple of months may not be long enough.

We have had our rescue dog who seems to have been very badly treated in the past and after 11 months there is still a way to go.

Has your dog been allowed to go when and where it wants? It would seem that training and not discipline is required. Discipline to me gives the impression of punishing for doing something wrong and if it has not been wrong for the dog in the past then it will be baffled.

Totally agree with Chouette about watching for signs and acting on those.

There is also the take outside and when the dog does go give a treat so that it associates going outside with reward.

Paul

[Catalpa]

You can teach dogs to pee on command - though we did that with pups not adults. Still, the principle should be the same. As they pee (preferably outside!) say peeeeeee-time, peeeeeee-time (or whatever similarly distinctive memorable words or sounds might appeal to you). Then, as Paul says, give the dog a treat. Once the dog has caught on to the idea, it will pee when and where you ask it to. It's a very useful trick if you're going out and leaving dog in house or car (ferry trips for eg) etc.

However, I would say (even though your vet has obviously been consulted about this problem) when one of our previously-clean-in-the-house dogs started peeing lakes in the kitchen, it was the onset of a tumour that pressed on her bladder and which presumably caused her to need to pee immediately and not when she was taken outside a while before or later. So it's not impossible it is something physical.

Good luck in solving the problem / changing the behaviour.

[gnatgnat]

I would add to this try taking your dog out every hour or so during the day to give him the opportunity to pee and especially just after feeding. Every time your dog pees when you let them out, praise with a good dog...

 

Another idea might be to try posting the problem here http://dogstodaythinktank.blogspot.com or use the search facility at the bottom of the page and see if anyone else has similar problems.

[Mrs Trellis]

Thanks for the comments.  It is hard work!

We had a week free from accidents.  Maybe because we had our son visiting so were not busy and had more time to keep a lookout.  We do look for signs.  As the dog sleeps very soundly, if we notice he's started wandering about we take him out.  Also try to remember to take him out at frequent intervals and he always obliges. The problem is when he's been out recently and we still find a lake and he has given no sign!  We can't spend every minute watching the dog.

I am aware that when he starts moving about in the morning he probably wants to go out.  It can be as early as 2.30 but usually around 4.30 which is earlier than I want to get up.  So I am sleep deprived.

He could have been left outside most of his life.  We do praise him when he wees outside.

I'm not convinced a cage would work but it might be worth a try when we have to go out for a longer time.

[PaulT]

Remember animals and people can be the same - both can be incontinent. You need your vet to see if they can ascertain a medical problem.

[Pommier]

Mrs Trellis, I think you are a remarkably kind and tolerant person. I think I would crack if I had to get up at those hours of the night to put the dog out!

[woolybanana]

Or my partner.

Mrs Tressli, given your phone call problem in another thread, have you ever seen your peeing dog near the fone? I did just wonder whether it might have been trying to tell you something.[;-)]

[Hester]

Hello, sorry to hear about your problem. You are being very patient with your dog and as you become more attached it would be difficult to have to move him on again. Our resuce dog had other issues which I am just starting to resolve nearly a year since we got him.

Crate training is very big in other countries and in America most people train their puppies in this way (or so I have researched on the web). For night time it could be useful, the idea being that they will not soil in their crate, providing there are no underlying medical problems. That way you could leave him a bit longer every night to help his bladder control to get stronger.

Also whilst checking about stress incontinence before having my female puppy sterilised I read that there is medication that they can take for life, but unfortunately I don't know the name.

Good luck, hang in there. Regards Hester.

PS some medications do make them pee more, our older dog was on steroids for arthritis and he drank and peed a lot more. Perhaps non-dog owners may scoff, but... we adapted a baby's nappy for him towards the end of his life, gave him another 8months and worked a treat!

PSS just read your other thread and see that you're already experienced with resuce dogs so you probably know lots of the above stuff.

[Mrs Trellis]

Thanks Hester,

I did wonder about medical problems but his kidneys were OK.  It is puzzling.  Perhaps, like many older people, he gets to the point when he just can't hold on.  So the crate wouldn't help.  It's always a lot of wee so I guess the bladder is full.   This morning he was taken out, did a poo, then came in and did a wee!  We take up the water bowl during the evening to reduce his intake.

We needed to go out today and were gone about 4 hours - no problem in the house on our return.

Still not sure we can carry on....

[Mrs Trellis]

Not quite sure how that helps WB!

[woolybanana]

Mrs Trellis, anything to lighten the load!

Does this doggie wag its tail when cuddled? Does it say thanki (sic) you when food is given? What are its origins and age?

The cage solution seems a very good answer.

I once sent my lovely doggies to a new kennels (not out of choice) and they peed and crapd chez moi, which tells me that the kennels were not up to much (which is the polite version of my comments). Since then, they have been elsewhere and been happy and clean. Which says they do these things when happy or unhappy.

But your doggy might have a bladder problem or just be scared after a lifetime of abuse. As the weather is warmer and the nights lighter, then maybe a later last pipi is possible. Mine manage to go about ten hours before making suitable noises; how long is yours going?

On the other hand, perhaps your doggie is actually using the fone to say something is wrong but is in fact too shy to say what, hence your problem on two threads. You don't believe me, well how do you know dogs can't use the fone?

[Mrs Trellis]

Well, yes, just because I haven't seen them using the phone...

He was a lost dog so age unknown - but safe to say fairly old.  Has a cataract covering one eye and one forming on the other, heart murmur, dodgy back legs.  He is quite a sparky little dog considering.  Has snapped at us when we held him back from the other dog's food or to stop him getting out.   Very thin when he arrived so I can understand his greed. Although our other dog was also lost, thin and very obviously used to being hit but she has never been greedy.

He arrived with worms, having had first tablet, and I gave him the second and as far as I'm aware no longer has them.  The interval between pees is up to 5 hours.  I thought I'd try for an early night and so he went out before 11 but got us up at 4.00.  He doesn't cringe when we stroke him, as our other dog did but yes, I think was probably badly treated.

Otherwise he is sort of sweet - tho not pretty - and it will be heartbreaking if we have to give up on him.  But I haven't had such disturbed sleep since my son was a baby and I was 35 years younger! My OH doesn't like the idea of making him an outside dog, but then he'd be one if kept in a long term rescue kennels I suppose.