Advice appreciated - should we move our kids to France?

[Eskenazi]

We have sold our house in UK (STC) and found the perfect place in France, in the same village as our present weekend house, and my husband's job is all organized. We both speak French, I was brought up there - but the problem is our kids and their education!

Our son is 13, daughter 7. Son is settled in large boys' comp over here, is bright & keen. The best local school in France is a private one in the nearest town, but friends in the village say 'That school is fine for girls, because mostly girls go there - he'd be one of about two or three boys in his class.' The alternative is a huge school in a rather rough town.

Daughter is 7, bright but clingy, real Mummy's girl who trembles at challenges. Both say they want to move over - we already have more friends in the village than we have here in London, and the open life is perfect for the kids - they spend their time just mooching around at friends' houses, biking, swimming, riding...they love it! Everyone knows them in the village & I trust everyone to look out for them. Here in London, I do not - could not - permit them to stir past the front door alone & no one knows them from any other kids.

Any advice from all of you who have taken the plunge? Both negative and positive advice is most welcome & much appreciated!

[Georgina]

[quote]We have sold our house in UK (STC) and found the perfect place in France, in the same village as our present weekend house, and my husband's job is all organized. We both speak French, I was brought u...[/quote]

My boys are both 7 and we have fed them moving to France for over two years, putting them in school whenever I could during the weeks that I was over here.  They are ecstatic at living here and do not want to go back.  Although they have been in full time school for only one month, I have never seen them so happy.  I know of another couple who have a seven year old girl and she is very happy having been here nearly a year.  I have briefly met several people with young children who also said they are happy. I think the 13 year old may be different as I think they push them harder at that age but if he is willing to try it and has been here many times before, why not? I would hate to live in London and wish you luck.

georgina

[Jo53]

I would go and see the college for myself and find out whether the boy/girl balance is really as skewed as local gossip says. Only by looking at this school with your son can you get a feel for whether it will be right for him or not.

As for your daughter, our experience with our rather shy son was that he was much better off in a small school with a family atmosphere, than in the bigger school where he first started (at 4). She is young enough to adapt very well, and knowing other children in the school already (if she goes to the village one) will surely be a bonus. But it may not be easy. Sometimes forums give the impression that starting school in France is a breeze and the kids are bilingual after 4 months, etc. Maybe it's like that for some, but in the first few months we had plenty of tears (mine also, after dropping sobbing child off and wondering what I'd done). My eldest is now 7 and doing fine at school, but despite quickly learning to understand, he did not speak a word of French for the whole of his first school year (aged 4-5). The following year, he started speaking and was fluent from the word go.

Also be aware that French education is not just what you're used to at home, but in a different language. There are some big cultural differences, and you have to be sure that you can cope with them. For example, you may find there is very little creative or 'discovery' type work in the primary.

Best of luck anyway.

[Jmd]

My normal advice would be don't move any child over 6, however I think you situation is a little different.

If they genuinely play with the village children and therefore presumably speak some French, and you and you husband both speak good French then I don't see that you have anything to be concerned about. If you moved within the UK your children would have to make new friends, but they already have friends in France.

I say go for it.

J.

[naps]

Chat to your son - he's 13 and has the option to go into a school FULL of girls!!! (French girls at that!!!) I think he'll love it there.  Seriously though, if your children are keen, then go for it and stop worrying.

[Marie-Clare]

We have now been here a year - children were 7,9 and nearly 17 when we moved. French schools are very different but you wouldn't expect anything else. I think if you can both speak, read and understand French well it is invaluable. The first two terms were very hard work for me as well as the children as they need a lot of help with the huge amount of home work they get. All of them have got good marks at the end of the year and do not have to repeat their first year at French school and they have all integrated well. I would go along and see the school for your older boy and judge for yourself. Also I came out armed with enough English grammar, comprehension and literature books to keep the younger two up to a good level of English language to GCSE standard. It has all been hard work but none of us have any regrets.

[Deby]

Our experiences are very different, but hopefully my reply will give folk food for thought.

We have raised our 2 young children in France, they are now 3 & 6. They have had a wondeful life and upbringing here and I would not have changed this for the world. As they are growing older their needs are changing.  We will be returning to the UK and the predominant reason for this is our belief that the french education system is not good enough in todays' world. It is ancient and something similar to 1950's style schooling.  We have been unfortunate in that the local school in the village is particularly bad, it is run by functionnaires who are not interested in teaching and encouraging children to learn.  Being a teacher is just a job to them.  We could have changed school of course, but the underlying problems are inherent in the French education system and ethos. I know and have experienced this as I have taught in several french schools. Some people may shoot me down with my comments here, but it is honestly my opinion and I have tried to be objective.  Of course the french ed system is different, it is so because it is french of course. We do not like it - it is a simple as that. My daughter is very happy in her school, a fact to which I am grateful for, but as her parents we believe we have to provide the best education we can for her within our means. For us France does not provide this.

I have recently visited 3 schools in the UK  for our daughter and 2 were excellent, the other good.  All 3 focussed on rounded learning and ensuring that the school environment was a place to inspire children no matter what their strenghts and weaknesses are. Respect was earned by the teachers, I could go on, but I honestly felt the UK ethos is far more suited to a good education than that of the French.

Ironically as I was out shopping in the UK and I overheard some young french men (circa early 20's) out chatting, I stopped and asked them what brought them to the UK, all 3 agreed that it was jobs, careers, choices. We were not in London either and I was rather surprised that these young men had made it this far into the Midlands and were not based in London.

The other point I will add here, is that in London I know things are very different and I looked at schools in London and I felt alot had to do with social demographics (i.e. house location/price = good school) etc so do understand and appreciate anxieties, but it is a big BUT- are open fields and sunny outdoors a good susbtitute for a good education? 
We will not be returning to London, but elsewhere in the UK .
This is what both my husband and I have discovered about France, love her to bits, the food, the weather, the relaxed approach, the people but for now our family's needs have changed and a good education is top of the list of our priorities for the forseeable future.
Deby

[Deby]

Our experiences are very different, but hopefully my reply will give folk food for thought.

We have raised our 2 young children in France, they are now 3 & 6. They have had a wondeful life and upbringing here and I would not have changed this for the world. As they are growing older their needs are changing.  We will be returning to the UK and the predominant reason for this is our belief that the french education system is not good enough in todays' world. It is ancient and something similar to 1950's style schooling.  We have been unfortunate in that the local school in the village is particularly bad, it is run by functionnaires who are not interested in teaching and encouraging children to learn.  Being a teacher is just a job to them.  We could have changed school of course, but the underlying problems are inherent in the French education system and ethos. I know and have experienced this as I have taught in several french schools. Some people may shoot me down with my comments here, but it is honestly my opinion and I have tried to be objective.  Of course the french ed system is different, it is so because it is french of course. We do not like it - it is a simple as that. My daughter is very happy in her school, a fact to which I am grateful for, but as her parents we believe we have to provide the best education we can for her within our means. For us France does not provide this.

I have recently visited 3 schools in the UK  for our daughter and 2 were excellent, the other good.  All 3 focussed on rounded learning and ensuring that the school environment was a place to inspire children no matter what their strenghts and weaknesses are. Respect was earned by the teachers, I could go on, but I honestly felt the UK ethos is far more suited to a good education than that of the French.

Ironically as I was out shopping in the UK and I overheard some young french men (circa early 20's) out chatting, I stopped and asked them what brought them to the UK, all 3 agreed that it was jobs, careers, choices. We were not in London either and I was rather surprised that these young men had made it this far into the Midlands and were not based in London.

The other point I will add here, is that in London I know things are very different and I looked at schools in London and I felt alot had to do with social demographics (i.e. house location/price = good school) etc so do understand and appreciate anxieties, but it is a big BUT- are open fields and sunny outdoors a good susbtitute for a good education? 
We will not be returning to London, but elsewhere in the UK .
This is what both my husband and I have discovered about France, love her to bits, the food, the weather, the relaxed approach, the people but for now our family's needs have changed and a good education is top of the list of our priorities for the forseeable future.
Deby

[Teamedup]

Deby, my thoughts too.

 

[timc17]

My wife and i agonised over this months ago before we made the decision to move.

We have four children aged 9,11,12 and 14 and only the 14 year old has raised any real objection to going.

Because of the frequency of our visits to our house in france all four have made friends in the village with children of the same age and who go to the same school where ours will go. This has been a big help in settling their nerves. We have also visited the school a couple of times and having met the head are more comfortable with the decision we've made. It has also helped that there are already several english children in the school.

 

 

tim

[Ormx]

Seems from reading this and many other in education section that many English people cannot accept French ed system as it is so different from English system.

IMO French system is very close to the Irish one, so I don't find many of the things as shocking as some of the posters here. In Ireland we also study as wide a range of subjects (but not in as much detail as A-levels) and have a good rounded education when we leave school. I find the French system excellent.

Education is not linked so closely to jobs. Many many people qualified in Ireland in the 80s with a good "bac" and could not get a job. Many got good degrees and could not get a job. Many of us had to emigrate. Now (and the system hasn't changed) anyone in Ireland can get a job easily. IT'S THE JOBS MARKET THAT HAS CHANGED.

We know several families that have moved out here with kids. None are considering moving back. And what harm if they do want to go to Ireland to get a job when they qualify? Or maybe the jobs market will have changed by then and you won't be able to work in UK or Irl?

[Miki]

Ormx said "....Education is not linked so closely to jobs"

I have to disagree here, I believe that French education, certainly from Lycée onwards is geared towards certain jobs, what makes you believe it is not ? Our son and daughter took courses that were aimed at specific employment and that appears to me, as though education does seem extremely linked to jobs.

I don't think we are at loggerheads with the "difference" in education between the UK and France but more, how it is not working out well here for some children here and I have seen too many instances where education has let the kids down.

[Tourangelle]

I think that the fact that there are courses here that are linked to jobs is one of the real strengths of the French education system. Some of the BTS courses on offer for example sound great, the tourism one and the various assistant de direction have a really good reputation and practically guarentee a job at the end, which is really unusual in France on the whole. The other great thing about the BTS is that they count for 2 years of university study, so it is possible to go and get a degree with one extra year at university. I have a friend who went down that road and did assistant trilingue then decided she wanted to get her languages really up to scratch, went to university and did a degree and a masters. So she had the professional training (and generally they do loads of work experience) and the university education. I really wish I had had that opportunity.

It is also easy to forget that schools in the UK are not uniformly fantastic, and even if they are good it does not guarantee success. My mum worked for years in an inner city secondary school, and she had loads of kids coming in who could barely read. It has apparently got better over the last few years, but the UK system does fail some kids too.

[Eskenazi]

Many thanks for all these helpful replies - your points are much appreciated and are being hotly debated in our family! One thought that occurred to me was that, if it were possible,I could keep the kids at home until the start of the term in January & intensively tutor them in French during that time (I am a teacher) - we would be moving in mid to late September so too late for the very beginning of the Autumn term anyway. Does anyone know if this is possible / permissible in the French system?

[cary]

been here 6 months now.  3 children age 4, nearly 8 and nearly 11.  4 year old doesn't speak french in front of us apart from the odd words and you sometimes hear her singing songs.  Teacher said she does speak a little to the other children in french.  8 year old seems to, at the moment, be finding the language the hardest and 11 year old who is in cm2 has picked up the language very well and can communicate the best in french, although he won't be going to college this year we are keeping him back a year so he doesn't struggle with the grammar etc.   Think it entirely depends on the individual child as has been said alot of times before.  They are all very happy and at this present time would not want to move back to uk.  Our eldest had a week trip back to visit friends and old school and hated the hustle and bustle, didn't like the traffic lights, and said everyone in his old school is mad!!  Think he was pleased to get back to the peace and quiet of our farm.  They all have french friends, no english children in the younger 2's school but eldest has 4 english and has 2 best friends, 1 english and 1 french!!

[Teamedup]

Once children are school age, then they should be registered as being schooled. I don't know who would police this incidentally, but that is what should happen.

[Tourangelle]

Back to the original post and on a more practical level 13 is a difficult age to arrive because it would mean your son should go into 5eme or 4eme depending when he was born. So he will probably have to do English as his first foreign language, because unless he has already started another language in his secondary school current secondary school he wont be able to catch up (and would you want him to have the extra pressure?). He'll be starting a second new language probably anyway. Which basically means he is going to be bored for 3 to 4 hours a week while his camerades learn about Guy Fawlkes night and recite past participles. So it might be worth talking to your potential schools about what they could suggest to get around this potential problem. Could you come in and give him extra French tuition during this time, for example, or is there any possibility of having extra French lesson from the school? You probably need to ask these questions as soon as possible because even if the schools are open minded and flexible, they will be sorting out time tables and so on right now!

[Eskenazi]

Thanks Tourangelle. He takes German at his present school so I assume he'd carry on with that - if the others were just starting perhaps it would give him a boost to be a little bit ahead in one subject?

[Lizzie15]

I'm reading this thread with great interest.It is so refreshing to read a genuine debate! Deby has told it as it is for her,she's not been swallowed up in flames!Others have told their different experiences-just as it should be.Long may this quality of debate flourish!

 

 

[Tourangelle]

That's great that he is taking German, because usually the best students are encouraged to take German as it is supposed to be harder, so he should be in a good class.

Just another thought, in the supermarkets here at the moment they are selling the cahiers de vacances, perhaps if you are in France you could get him the ones for 6eme or 5eme, which could give him an idea of what to expect, especially in French, as they do a lot of grammar in collège.

[Lilly]

In answer to your last question if my experiances are anything to go by as I have a 11 year old and a 14 year old that have now been in school for just over a year, we waited for four months until the start of the new year but to be honest if we had bitten the bullet to send them to school even for just a short time it would have just given them the basics.The best initial learning they can have is to mix with potential new friends and become familiar with their surroundings of the school. In my older sons case he ended up going to school for the final 8 weeks of term this was a valuable time of familialisation (help where is spell check!!) and learning the easier bits of the language, so in a nut shell send them after an initial couple of weeks or so of arriving to a new country and it will only aid the new start of an actual year (In my opinion!)

[Deby]

English people cannot accept French ed system as it is so different from English system.

Hello Ormx,

Of course the English system is different to the French I could not agree more. It is just that I do not wish to accept it and therefore have made the decision to leave.

Incidentally, my husband is Irish and he does not believe that the French and Irish systems are similar.  He is very proud of his Irish education and rates it highly.  From what he has discovered regarding the French is a very much different experience to yours..

For some  it is great but for us it has not been.

Time will tell.

Best,
Deby

 

[Miki]

Duchess,

Sorry changing the subject a little.

What are you going to do about the Chateau ? It seems such a shame, that after all your extremely hard work, the education problem is forcing you to leave France and the Chateau.

I can't offer any alternatives, only a move in France to somewhere, that perhaps has a college/Lycée that can be recommended ? Our daughter did benefit from our move North but our time in the south west left some bitter tastes in the mouth. Her Lycée here was certainly more cosmopolitain (not sure if that is the right word really)in its outlook, still some silly racist remarks now and again though but she became much more settled. Unfortunately she is somewhat older than your children so I guess it is not really relative.

Good luck to you and the kids anyway.

[Deby]

Hi Miki,

Thanks for your comments, yes we are leaving France but still keeping our Chateau.  As a business it is doing very well so we would be fools not too. We have a Caretaker so that works well and my husband will no doubt be notching up a few miles too.

Obviously alot of holidays will be spent here, so we will be able to get the best of both worlds. Must admit I was not looking forward to another winter here! 

I am sure it sounds easy but no doubt it will have its trials and tribulations.  France is a beautiful country and I will miss many aspects of French life which I have grown accustomed to and been part of.   I am sure Blighty will become a bit of a culture-shock for us, however nothing in life is straightforward for any of us.

Of course I will continue to post and keep abreast of life in France and share my experiences of both sides of the channel

And I am  really going to enjoy my summer!

Deby

[Mistral]

Thanks Tourangelle. He takes German at his present school so I assume he'd carry on with that - if the others were just starting perhaps it would give him a boost to be a little bit ahead in one subject?

I know you said you were uncertain about sending him to the local school, do you know if that school actually teaches german?  I ask because german is losing popularity at the moment and less and less schools are teaching it. My town is not a good example because we have so many families with Spanish or Italian origin, but only one collège (out of three) teaches german as a first language and none teach it as a second language. The lycée doesn't teach it at all anymore.

 If he has been doing German from the start of secondary school, then you could look around to find a school that has German as first foreign language. He might be expected to take english as LV2 but it's not obligatory, I had one pupil who did german and italian (although this caused problems for his LEP after)