Education Otherwise?

[Lesbatees]

Something I've been wondering about for a bit.

Does home schooling exist in France? Is it even legal? After all, this is the land where everything that isn't obligatoire appears to be interdit :-).

Press reports I've read say it's definitely on the rise in Britain. Organisations such as Education Otherwise, which help parents who want to home educate, say they've seen a tripling of enquiries from parents over the last five years.

I've encountered two home educated kids in the past - one 6 year old and a teenage girl in hubby's theatre workshop. Both had an impressive level of maturity and breadth of knowledge when compared their peers.

What's the story on home education in France? Does anyone know?

Val

[Teamedup]

This was an option I looked into very seriously when it all went wrong.

At the time we would have needed a doctor's certificate, the school inspector would have had some say and we would have had to registered with the CNED. Everyone tried to put me off this course of action as the child after all is at home alone. However we still continued the process until the CNED proved so unhelpful that we sent him back to the UK. Great move on our part and he is doing just fine.

[Mistral]

As TU says, it's legally possible but not actually very easy to set up.

From what I've heard, you can find yourself inspected at least once a year (although it can be more often) and it's up to you to prove that your child is educated to level expected of a child of his age. I don't think you have any obligation to follow the French programme, but that will be the yardstick the inspectors will measure you against. I've never had to deal this the CNED at this level although I know people who had primary lessons sent to them while posted abroad. Lessons from the CNED would certainly follow the programme and I expect they are quite dry and theoretical. Not easy to teach yourself if you're not used to them.

[Chrisb]

My friend's 12 year old son is educated at home, here in Normandy. She says that it was a bit of a battle, but she stuck to her guns and he is getting on really well. He certainly is extremely motivated and very bright - and she has no teaching qualifications other than FLE and TEFL. I am not sure as to exactly why she chose to home-school him as his 2 sisters both are at 'normal' school - I think it is mainly because he is so bright and she felt he was being held back at school, but I am not 100% sure. (She is English, married to a Frenchman, by the way)

Regards

Chris

[Lesbatees]

Seems pretty much what I expected - possible in theory but damn difficult in practice due to the attitude of the authorities.

The English system seems to give parents a lot more leeway. Though if the teaching unions and the educational bureaucrats have their way, that may change, as these two articles in the Grauniad illustrate.

http://education.guardian.co.uk/schools/comment/story/0,,1307142,00.html

http://education.guardian.co.uk/schools/story/0,5500,1272075,00.html

Sorry, I don't know how to do links.

Who has legal responsibility in France for ensuring kids get an education? Is it the State rather than parents? Is that why there's so much official interference?

Val

[Izz.]

How about getting organised and trying to take childrens education seriously, instead of blaming this or that? it is possible you need to set up an association and find other parents wanting to be involved in their children's education. The next step would be to find enough teachers to teach the N.C. AND CHECK THAT THEY ARE QUALIFIED as they will need to register with exam boards. Last but not least consider the expenses and costs involved in doing so. Good luck

.

[Dick Smith]

Also check that they are clear of convictions or sex offences through List 99.

[Izz.]

I forgot to mention earlier on that teachers in question will have to register at the Rectorat in Nantes, and therefore "an enquete de civilite" will be conducted by them automaticly. They will also require an address for checks.

[Battypuss]

I'm a parent who home schooled eldest daughter for three years (ages 6-9) before coming here. The English authorities were unhelpful in the extreme, but I got there in the end. Education Otherwise is a good place to start, they have members all over the world, and we were lucky enough to meet one lady; a French/English teacher in Vendée, who had given up and sent all three children to ordinary schools here in France. As they seemed perfectly happy, I added dd1 to the system, followed by dd2 and dd3.

I would love to teach dd3 at home; she's bored to utter distraction at school, but with no car and no income, I am stuffed at the first hurdle.

[normandy]

An interesting topic as we have two home educated boys in UK and have been pondering the home education topic in France.  We have a house in Normandy and know a lot of home educators in the UK but very few in France.  I see from the replies someone knows a 12 year old in Normandy - do we know where?.  We are considering home educating in France so any further information would be of interest.

[Chrisb]

I will try and find out some further information for you on Friday, so will post back sometime over the week-end, or if my friend gives her permission I will PM you with her phone number and you could give her a ring.The family live in Carentan, Manche.

Regards

Chris

[MargaretD]

I'm pleased to see this line of conversation going on.  Although I'm a teacher, I educated one of our foster children at home for three years, and what a lovely boy lived in our house!  Anyway, I now make sure that anyone who lives on the Isle of Man can home educate if it's either what they want or if it's the best for the child.  (I even get paid by the authority!! - until August when we move to Champagne!)

I feel it is very important to keep to your feelings about this.  Education Otherwise are a great organisation, and no doubt will provide encouragement when you're in France.  As to the French Red Tape, we all know that the first answer is "NON", but then we all make it in the end... 

Margaret

[Nickd]

For everyone following this thread, here is an interesting Home Education website: http://www.freedom-in-education.co.uk/index.htm

Follow the link at the bottom of the home page for an article entitled "Home Educating in France". 

We have been toying with the idea of home educating our daughters (aged 12 & 10) for some years. Now living in France, we felt it was important for our girls to spend some time at the local school learning French and making friends. Maybe we'll take the plunge soon. We had serious doubts about the formal education system in the UK and while things are very different here, we are once again considering a different route.

Nick

  

[bigjimbishop]

I moved permanently to the Morvan in Bourgogne before xmas with my 3 yr old son.

He's in Ecole Maternelle and picking up the language very well.

However I'm looking around for alternatives to ecole primare when he is 6.

In the Uk I lived in Leicester which has one of the largest Education Otherwise networks and my son and I went to the playgroups every week.

Some of my home-ed friends are coming to visit this summer and I'm going to try to persuade them to stay.

Out here I have a Dutch friend home educating her daughters with the Wereld School system as officially the girls don't really live in France.

But she is interested in setting up an independant school for kids of any nationality to be taught in French Dutch and English.

We've got a few families interested now with kids under 6.

We want to find teachers and do some ourselves.

Nothing is set in stone yet, but we have plenty of space and time.

We all live around Chateau Chinon, halfway from Nevers to Dijon.

If anyone is interested in 58 (Nievre) let me know.

Jim Bishop

[jorja]

we have been HEing here in the auvergne (63) for 7 months now with no problems. i don't know if we are doing it correctly but all i have had to do is send a letter to the local ed dept telling them that we plan on doing this for the next year. apparently it has to be done every year.

we follow the same plan as we did in the UK. basically learning what we are interested in not following a set programme.

i would love to meet up or have contact with other mums or dads home educating in france. my email address is [email protected] .

georgia, issoire 63

[Debra]

Hi Georgia,

How do you get on with teaching them French?  I'm home educating in the UK but am a bit worried about doing it when we move to France because of the language aspect.  I also feel OK about teaching them myself here during the primary years because I feel capable of covering what they would do at school in the UK (and more) but I wouldn't feel so happy about covering the French primary years (are they very different?) and would be worried I wouldn't be able to prepare them sufficiently to cope with the later school years in France.   I have so far intended that my kids will attend secondary school, whether here or in France.  Will your children attend school after the primary years?  If so, how do you prepare them for it?

Debra 

[SaligoBay]

There's something I'm still not understanding.

Do home-educated children "opt out" completely?   I mean, do they not do the baccalaureat or A-levels?   So university is out of the question, or would they go via Open University if they wanted a degree?

I don't think I know anyone who could teach even 3 subjects to A-level or bac standard.   I could have a good go at German, French, English, Italian, Biology, Geology, maybe Maths if I really put my mind to it,  but put a Physics paper in front of me - no way!

So, is the child limited by YOUR abilities and interests?   What happens when YOU can't work out a mathematical proof or a piece of differential calculus?

[Debra]

As I said, I only intend to educate my children at home for the primary years (or until we move permanently to France perhaps) because I've looked at what they are expected to cover during those years and I feel capable of teaching them myself.  I intend to cover what the national curriculum expects and more (I feel it doesn't cover much in the primary years). 

However, a lot of people do home educate older children with great success.  They might not cover the same subjects as at school but simply help the children learn what they want to.  After all, if its a topic the child is interested in they will soak it up apace.  A lot of people don't see the need for children to study all the topics they have them studying at school, and I can understand this. 

(I myself only feel that four of my subjects passed at secondary school were ever of any use to me: Maths, English, Office Practice and Typing - they didn't do Computer Studies when I was at school but if they had, I would have found that useful too.  Other than those subjects, the only study which has been useful to me in my career has been at night classes (HNC, after work) and at home (OU degree), both of which were done 'later in life', years after school years, when I had found the area I wanted to work in and was prepared to study for it.)

Other home educators try to give the same education as would be provided at school but do it at home in what they feel is a more beneficial environment than whatever schooling is provided locally (not everyone can afford to move house if their locally provided schooling is not good enough in their eyes). 

You can purchase curriculums online which the kids can study themselves (a good preparation for later further education studying) or some colleges of further education will take children in evening classes.  There are also certificates that are recognised in Europe and the US which are recognised by universities.  It is possible to build a curriculum from the information given on the national curriculum sites - they're very detailed on what is expected to be covered term by term.  You can provide the child with the materials and off they go.  Home educated children are often more mature and able to self discipline themselves to study because of this experience (like I said, good experience for higher education).  Also, home schooling is often a learning experience for the whole family, with the parents studying ahead of the children so they can help.

The OU doesn't require passes in GCSE's or A levels to take a degree course so this is an option for home educated children who didn't take exams.  Also, a lot more universities nowadays are taking people who don't have these sorts of exam passes.  I've read on the HE sites that they are often impressed with the maturity and study skills shown by home educated children.

I'm not certain what will happen with our children as they get older - I suppose it depends on the experience they have when we try to send them back to school at secondary level (or primary if we're in France).  A case of suck it and see.  However, maybe because I'm fairly new to home educating, I don't feel confident to handle the broad secondary education myself, though with revision and studying ahead of the children, my husband and I could probably manage a fair few subjects between us.  But - time and experience will tell. 

Debra

PS if you read some of the home education sites you will see a lot of answers to your question.  The US sites are very big on using outside curricula.  I suppose it depends on how much you are already capable of, what you can afford and how much input you want to have in preparing their work as to whether you buy these.

[Debra]

[quote]There's something I'm still not understanding. Do home-educated children "opt out" completely? I mean, do they not do the baccalaureat or A-levels? So university is out of the question, or would ...[/quote]

"So, is the child limited by YOUR abilities and interests?   What happens when YOU can't work out a mathematical proof or a piece of differential calculus?"

I'd ask hubby (the more mathematical one) and I guess if he couldn't do it I'd book some time with a private tutor!  There are numerous web sites which offer support, I believe.