Life in Lycée

[Miki]

Daughter has been here tonight for Dinner. This is the first

time we have seen her since New Years Eve when she and her boyfriend flew

back to be with their friends for the festivities. She was very chatty (like

her Mum !) and told us about her New Years Eve do and how Lycée is continuing

to treat her and her fellow pupils.

She has been telling us (once again) how some of the profs in her collège teach them like

they were still infants. A lad in her class, who has never redoubled and is a

very good pupil, missed a paper from his stage abroad. He had very good reason

to be late with it and Daughter said that he started to politely tell the

teacher why he had not handed it in and was embarrassingly ripped in to, he

tried to get a word in to explain but was unbelievably sent out of the class

and told to report to the directrice.

This boy is around 21 I believe, I find it totally incredible that at that age, he is

treated as a child and not as an adult. Without going in to personal detail, when

that prof finds out why, I have no doubt she will simply see the directrice and

put all the blame on the boy for not telling her before, which apparently, he

had tried on two occasions to do, only to be shouted down.

Add this to the fact that most of the class had been abroad until the break up

of school and then were expected to go straight in to orals without any preparation.

This had never been done time wise, at the school before. The class asked as a

whole for 7 days delay and were literally screamed at, that if they were not

prepared, then that was plainly there own faults. Most of them, including the

lad already mentioned had to write up a full dossier over the holiday period on

their stage, some were able to do so, others had far more complicated dossiers

to complete. So this exam was really too much on top of the work that as required

on their return.

It came to a head this morning, after it was discovered that a parent had been

to see the directrice to complain of the attitude of the teacher. The class

were called to the discussion room and were told that the reason the prof was

shouting and being over strict was because of the poor pass rate of the class

the year before. Daughter said that has been all the prof has been saying all

year, no encouragement, just "you will end up like last years class if you

carry on like this"

Now I am no expert but I know in my dealings in management, this would have got

me nowhere at all, if I had told (or been told myself) my workers/players they were likely to be as

useless as the team before. The strange thing about it all, is that the class

as a whole, is and has been doing extremely well from the beginning of the

year, even before the mad rages started from the prof. It was as ever, a gloss

over but tonight I also found that parent has pretty strong ties with the old

school and has some influence with the directrice. So perhaps, this class (and others) may just get a little more encouragement and be less treated like

children butI am not holding my breath and nor my Daughter and no doubt her colleagues. !

Compare this with our eldest Son and youngest Son in the UK who attended lectures and

were treated as adults, a couple even sharing first names with them both. Youngest 

son has been in both systems, he had no problems with his primaire and collège

years here (well up to 4ème anyway) but once Lycée kicked in, he decided he would prefer to do his further education in the UK.

He actually went back (but to seperate Uni's) with an English girl who had been born here but her parents seeing how it was here, compared to their own Uni experience had given her the choice and one she jumped at, when seeing she could do her further education in the UK.

Daughter, bless her, just gets on but is seeing more and more ridiculous happenings

in her further learning and remember this is Bac + 2 year and you would think

she might be au fait with it all by now but it appears to me, that her and her

friends are starting to question more the whys and wherefores of how they are

taught and treated.

Wonder whether we will see another student strike in the near future, this kind

of talk I can recognise as genuine unrest......

[Teamedup]

So nothing changes. This is the education system 'I know'. I usually don't recognise what is spoken about on this board, there again, I don't recognise that 'other' France either. I sometimes feel like I am living in a parallel world.

[Val_2]

Well out of all the educational establishments we have been involved with here, the local Lycée has been the worst you can find. My son who is in his fourth year there because he has gone on and done a second qualification and is nearly 20 now which in the eyes of the law is a fully recognised adult is treated like a 10year old sometimes and WE still have to sign official papers for him. Last term he was sent outside by the prof who is an old idot anyway, because he smacked a large bluebottle which had landed on his hand, his best friend cannot stop farting due to his diet and my boy burst into laughter even the teacher did,but still got sent outside. Now at collège and primaire he was never sent out even when told the teacher she didn't know what she was talking about in an english lesson. He is not a troublemaker, just a clown who likes to joke and laugh and he is always helping the others with their lessons too. I find that the Lycée is very impersonal,well with other 2000 pupils it would be,but the staff are just not what you would expect a professional teacher to be like and have very little regard for their pupils when they do not understand the lessons, in fact in my boy's class dealing with the advanced maths and calculations they don't dare ask to have the question repeated for fear of being sent out.

[Lori]

Does anyone dare complain about these things to the Director(trice)?  If so, what is said?  Do they condone this type of behavior by Profs?  Is there a Parent/Teacher organization in these schools, like in the Colleges?  If so, is it active?  If enough parents make a fuss, wouldn't it, at least, have to be looked into?

I've seen similar problems at my daughter's college.  I'm not quite sure why some of these Profs have chosen this career path.  Clearly, many have no regard for students (at least that is how it appears).  If they get so burned out (and I can somewhat understand that after seeing some of the students AND parents), why don't they do something else?  or teach somewhere else??

 

[Unknown]

I think you will find teachers like this in all countries, not just France and UK.  The school, comp, my daughter went to was terrible. Some of the teachers didn't even know her name.  It seems if you are one of the naughty kids you are remembered.  We had a parents evening with her subject teachers and it was such an ordeal.  Most of the teachers came out with the same old line, you could hear the same garbage coming out for the child in front of us and probably the child behind.  I think there are many teachers in the UK which have very little interest in their jobs as well.

[Val_2]

Trouble is here is that teachers are fonctionnaires - 8-5.30 and nothing more than that. Anyone who complains gets the teachers standing together against them and the child suffers in class, its well known you just don't complain. As for seeing the Proviseur (head) they seem to be invisible except for a signature on a paper, its the Conseilleur d'Education that deals with the kids and parents and I have made an enemy there already here with telling her to basically get a life and stop harrassing us with phone calls when my son has left 5mins early to catch the only bus left home, a distance of 25kms and me with a car broken down.The miserable cheeky cow turned round and said that he should have his own car by now and use that or mine and I said there was no need currently as the bus only costs for three months what it would cost in petrol per week.

[Miki]

Some people do Lori but as Val says, they also know there is a good chance that their child may well be victimised. Our kids, even if they have had a genuine complaint, they would/will never allow us to go in to the school to sort it out. I hear that there are channels (this si tongue in cheek) I even hear of people that have taken that route but when kids and not just mine, say please don't come in to the school, it will only rebound on me, then I prefer to listen to them than take the advice that has has been offered of go and see the head or whoever......

As for parent/teacher organizations, we have seen good and bad in the early schooling up until the end of collège but as far as Lycée is concerned, I know of nothing like that in our kids places.

As far as enough parents making a fuss, it really is not the traditional French way, they rely totally on the profs and believe them to know how it all is and they don't know, so keep out. That maybe general but it is by far the highest percenatge of how it is, well in our experience anyway. I think it comes down from both sides as just how it is, the porofs look afdter each othera nd the aprenst have long thought the way it is and has been is the best......It means the students (along with some profs) take strike action everytime they want change (or not) and we are due another blow up !! The trouble is, the last time (last year) it affected the exam periods quiet badly.

Dotty, I think we are really talking more, after collège here, the years leading up can be a picnic. Your kids have very good marks, keep them at it but do listen to their probs in the years ahead, which I'm sure you will do. But as SB said, we can kick the UK education system but just look at how many people on LF say how good their kids have been in their early years at school here, credit where it is due perhaps ?

[Lori]

Well, I guess I'm dreading Lycee now..

[The Riff-Raff Element]

[quote user="Miki"] But as SB said, we can kick the UK education system

but just look at how many people on LF say how good their kids have

been in their early years at school here, credit where it is due

perhaps ?

[/quote]

Possibly. And then again, look how well (as is often touted) the

products of the French system can do when it comes to getting jobs in

the UK in competition with native English speakers with native

qualifications. Can't be all bad, eh?

As with all these things it is futile to try and extrapolate too far

from individual experiences: for every child having a nightmare in the

system there is one doing extremely well. Personally, it seems to me

that the two systems produce on average pretty much the same result,

and since the same child cannot simultaneously traverse both it is

impossible to say which is the more suitable.