Letting out our house

[cherries_fan]

Hello to all, as a newbie to these forums I seem unable to find a link to a topic relating to letting out a property long term.

My wife & I bought our house outright last year as an investment for the future and are exploring the option of letting it out long term - as we are unable to really use our house as a proper holiday home for a few years yet.

Does anyone know where to find information on letting out in France or even a topic within these forums or have any advice to offer.

Thanks in advance

Mark & Emma

[Patf]

There was a question a while ago from someone who had tenants in their french house and wanted them to leave before the date originally agreed on. I think the consensus was that tenants have the right to stay up to a minimum of 3 years. Best to get advice first from a notaire about types of tenancy agreements rather than get youselves trapped and not able to live in your house. Pat.

[Val_2]

Yes.Be very very careful here.Its far harder to evict people in France and squatters and non-payment of rent persons have many rights (can't be evicted in winter etc).Some places have been occupied for ten years or more and its taken the authorities that long to get them out.

[Iceni]

Slightly off topic but may show how the law is biased towards those actually in the property and not the owner of the property.

I understand from an article written by a French man living in the US that if you have a property in France, even if it is your only property and you are French, you cannot get the squatters out now unless you report it in something like 48 hours. His property is in Paris and he did some research and found that there had been no evictions in Paris to release properties where the owner was not currently residing in France for many years. His view was that second homes of non French people would have even less luck. Some of the contents of his property had also been sold and he had no redress.

I think the article/letter was printed on TF.

So my reading of this is that letting out your second French home or even being unlucky enough to get squatters in your second French home could provide problems if they would not move out as it would be a second home and you would not need it to live in so the authorities may well do nothing (as that is the easiest option for them).

Sorry if I have muddied the waters but this article/letter really did make me realise how difficult things could be in France if you lived away and had problems.

[Jo Taylor]

I think this is the article Di is referring to:

"France - a Squatters' Paradise"

http://www.frenchentree.com/fe-property/DisplayArticle.asp?ID=1432

HTH

Jo

[Tourangelle]

Hi

it is possible to let for less than the standard 3 years of a regular contract for an unfurnished dwelling. In particular this is an option if it is fully furnished. If you read French have a look at this link

http://www.fnaim.fr/services/fiches/location/hab_loc_court.aspx

[cookehouse]

Now I'm worried! How safe is a holiday home? Is it really possible that after 48 hrs away we could have squatters that have more rights than we do?

[cherries_fan]

wow, that certainly makes you stop and think.  So, obviously letting the house out may not be a good idea but then again nor does leaving it empty!

If the poor guy in the linked article has had it done to him by his own sister that really does make the second/holiday home owners sitting ducks or did he just have very bad luck?

What I thought was a general question regarding a common procedure in the UK (letting) has opened a whole new area for concern. 

If anyone else has any experience regarding this topic please post it because i think that this thread may now be of use to many more people than just potential landlords.

Mark & Emma

[vrooje<BR>Cheers,<br>-Brooke<BR><br><B><A TARGET=blank HREF="http:www.experienceburgundy.com">http:www.experienceburgundy.com<A><B>]

It is our understanding that, for a furnished holiday let that is less than six months long, the rights are on the side of the landlord. For a tenancy 6 months or over, the tenant can do all of the things mentioned above, including refuse to pay rent, for years before the landlord is able to evict them.

I wouldn't even consider renting our second home for a period of more than 5 months, for this reason.

I'm not a lawyer, though, so your best bet may be to simply contact a French lawyer who speaks English.

[aumagne]

Hello

We are in the same position as Mark and Emma. From the messages so far it looks like we need to let for a maximum of six months and make sure we get a notaire to produce a tenancy agreement which enables us to get possession at the end of the term.

But what about the practicalities? Is it best to let furnished or unfurnished? Is it best to let to english people or french? Do we use an agent or advertise it ourselves? Is it necessary to have someone locally to keep an eye on things? What about tax?

Is there anyone out there who has done it and is willing to offer a bit of advice?

Aumagne

[Teamedup]

aumagne, I believe it would have to be furnished. We took a furnished place for about six months when we first came and it suited us to have it.

But in general what sort of real demand will there be for furnished accommodation. I really don't know, it would depend on where too. Even divorced people I know have not wanted furnished when they have been looking for somewhere to rent.

[Pangur]

I'm sure the location of your house will contribute greatly to dictating what kind of let to do - if you're in or near a town with a large mobile population, a furnished 6 month rent might work, but remember that you're going to continually have to find new tenants, which is going to affect your rental income greatly.  So you probably can't afford to be too fussy about the tenants' nationality

 With that kind of churn, you're probably going to need an estate agent if you want to keep up occupancy, but I am sure they will take a hefty chunk out of your rent for doing that.

 

 

[Evianers]

We have been established in France for over 10 years but do not actually live there yet. We had an upmarket townhouse in a complex with a resident on-site concierge, so felt very positive about renting out our townhouse to an English couple from Portsmouth, via a local agent who automatically collected and processed the rent for us. However, when asked by us if they could also inspect the premises regularly to make certain everything was in order, they told us French law does not permit this. Bon. After 5 years the English tenants gave notice, moved out without paying the final two months rent and the state of the house was appalling. I think the common phrase is 'trashed the place'. It took over a year to set it to rights: we took them to court and won [rightly so] but it left such a bad taste as soon as the house was habitable we sold it. Notwithstanding the above, we bought another property which is also now rented to a local French family with four children and a cat, who are, according to the agent keeping the house spic and span and maintaining the garden. However in view of our previous experiences, we have taken out a 3% insurance to cover non-payment of rent and other damage by the tenants. So the answer is, you never know..... We have had a very bad experience with English tenants and are now [touch wood] having a pretty reasonable time with local French tenants. By the way, in both cases the leases were for a minimum of 3 years as the law stipulates in France.

[tonyfitz]

I began to read inputs on this theme as a consequence of trying to gather some information about initially renting in France, rather than buying a property straight off. My wife and I intend to relocate to France in August this year and hope to be able to live in the north of Aquitaine or Poitou-Charente area.  Might I suggest that the question 'is it best to rent to english or french' could cause some considerable annoyance to some people who may perhaps be more sensitive to stereotyping than others. The inference appears to be 'we don't want French people to live in our property that happens to be in France, owned by a foreigner'  It also leaves me wondering if, as a Scotsman, just about to complete 30 years in the Scottish Police Service, I would also be a potential dubious tenant.

I think really the issue is about having proper checks and balances in place and trying, as far as is possible, to ensure that anyone you are considering renting to has good references and signs a proper legal contract overseen by someone from the legal profession. In Scotland we have something known as a probationary tenancy that lasts for 6 months. Any difficulties within that time with lack of care, non payment etc will result in the tenants immediate eviction (forced if necessary.)

I know French law is different and, understandably in some respects, tends to favour the tenant.  However my enquiries to date indicate that if a property is let unfurnished in France the minimum period of let is for 3 years, during which time it is virtually impossible to remove unwanted tenants.  If a property is let furnished the rights of the landlord are more in balance and one can possibly lease on a 3, 4 etc month basis, or on a renewable every 6 month basis, whilst still maintaining some controls.

Some tenants, I believe, also offer storage facilities for any property owned by tenants, and furnish their properties with the meagre-est of items to qualify for furnished 'status.'

On a crime prevention theme, I concur with the person who gave advice about locks, which should include window locks etc although in the case of a property that is fairly isolated no matter what external measures are employed if someone is determined, greater security sometimes means greater damage. A key element is giving the impression of occupancy as much as possible, use timer switches for radio, tv, recording of barking dog if necessary as well as for lights (although it is probable that most break-ins occur during daylight hours) Ideally have someone local check on the property regularly.  There is a very useful booklet on home security that can be accessed free on www.crimereduction.gov.uk that will allow you to do as much as you can to protect your property.

I also agree with the point made about making it as difficult as you can as there are plenty who would make it fairly easy.

 

 

[tonyfitz]

To minimise confusion the article above also relates to the piece on burglary on the theme of property

[Coral]

I purchased a small place for renting out and I was given some pretty good advice.

It:s near a university and rented to students on 11 month contracts.  They wont stay forever and the rent is guaranteed by their parents.  It:s furnished but if anyone wants to bring in their own bed and teddy-bear then the bed can become a sofa but it is still officially furnished.  It:s managed by an agent and he charges 7% and gets the tenants and makes sure the flat is in reasonable condition on a regular basis.

I:ve been quite happy with the arrangement as not being there it would be a major problem to take charge of it myself.

Coral - halfway to ariege

 

[squashblue]

hello everybody,we are looking at the moment for a house to rent for about 6 months somewhere within a 50 mile radius of angouleme,starting early june,just thought i`d mention that in case anybody can help! i get the impression there are many people like me trying to arrange lets from the uk so maybe theres a more hassle free market there for your house letting cherries fan? what area are you in?

[Kittycat]

Just thought I'd add my 2 centimes worth to the information already offered.  Next door to our own house, we have an apartment which we let, unfurnished, to a young French couple. We considered if there was a market for 6 month lets to househunters wishing to move over with all their goods and chattels, but had a discouraging response, hence we approached local agents.  As mentioned before, most long term tenants have all their own furnishings, including cooker, fridge etc. Although the initial term is for the normal 3 months, the tenants can give notice at any time.

The agents not only found the tenants but took up their references and signed the contract on our behalf which suited us fine. We had the option of (a) collecting the rent each month directly, (b) having the agents collect the rent and pass it on less 6.5% fee, plus acting as go-between if there were ever any problems or (c)  taking out an insurance against unpaid rent, in which case the total management fee would have been something like 10%.

The agent had said early on in the proceedings, that in our particular area, the chance of tenants defaulting on their payments was unlikely as it is an area of relatively low employment so we opted for (b)  As luck would have it, whether it was age or income related we're not sure, the whole of the rent for the possible 3 years turned out to be guaranteed by their parents, so we feel we have full security for a property we'll only ever consider as a money earner.  If it was somewhere we intended to live or have available for friends and family in the future, I'm not sure we would have gone down this route.

With regard to wishing to rent for only 6 months, why not go take on a long term lease and just give notice sooner?  Many agent immobiliers which sell houses also have rental properties.  You may find the quality of decoration slightly lower than you'd expect from UK houses as the French seem to be less fussy, and you may have to furnish it, (plenty of inexpensive new or secondhand good stuff about) but the properties are out there.

Sorry if I've rambled a bit and happy home hunting!

[squashblue]

yes think i`ll have to take that route,i`ve been trying to arrange something with an english owner because my french is`nt great but obviously most english owners are doing holiday lets, ah i finally get it!

[MountainAlways traveling and learning]

[quote]Hello to all, as a newbie to these forums I seem unable to find a link to a topic relating to letting out a property long term. My wife & I bought our house outright last year as an investment fo...[/quote]

Dear Mark and Emma

This is not a answer to your questions. But I am having a hard time find a long term rental in France.

I am an American Designer, and work in Asia most of the time and vacation in France at least 5-6 times a year. And wish to have a home in France. But want to rent first.

I have a wonderful Loft in Atlanta, GA now, Had it for years. More then likely will keep that also. My partner is retired but is a Photographer, and travel extensively also, But also enjoys the French way of life.

What are is your home in France?

[shas]

hi, i know quite a few people here who let their property, long term and short term, with no problems. I think you would be wise to advertise to the english, either in an english magazine, or on the web, either setting your own site, or through experianced company such as france one call,, or, gites in france, i feel this would be your safest bet.