vrooje<BR>Cheers,<br>-Brooke<BR><br><B><A TARGET=blank HREF="http:www.experienceburgundy.com">http:www.experienceburgundy.com<A><B>

Before we got DSL, we just directed people to the local bar, as others here do. Now that we do have DSL, we installed a wireless router, and we don't charge for access. Theoretically, we could think of it as included in our last annual price increase, but really it's just an added bonus that makes our property more attractive to some and doesn't matter to others. Our phone line accepts toll-free and local calls only, and we did have one person bring along his own dial-up ISP information, and use a calling card.

Agreed -- for last-minute bookings, I would never suggest PayPal if someone were new to the site. I also would be wary of taking cash on arrival. Bank transfer would be my payment method of choice.

Good idea on the ATM card bit -- ours does need some updating. I believe there are a few cards in the States now that use chips, but still very, very few. (And don't get me started on all the ways Americans ignorantly think they're more advanced than the rest of the world.) 3. Where is France? Not as daft as it sounds. Do you know where Tasmania is? It's an island about the same size as France but looks tiny sitting off the coast of Australia. What a funny thing! I love it. No one could ever accuse you of not providing enough information if you answered this question in your FAQ! I have no idea how to answer the road conventions question -- as I've never had the opportunity to drive in the UK, Australia, or Japan. I should ask some of our previous clients... So far the manual/automatic transmission hasn't been an issue, as most of our clients are older than 35, and that's sort of the dividing point between people who had to learn to drive a stick shift. With anyone younger than that, you can't assume they know how. Good point! 7. Can people call us at the house? ie what is the phone number? I'd quote the AT&T Direct number in the guide in the house. Actually, I would not give this information out over the web -- but we of course give that info to clients as soon as we've received their final payment. Likewise with the pictoral directions; I don't want anyone to be able to easily find the house just by looking at the website. We do live in the US and manage from afar (with the help of a local contact), so squatters could be a serious problem. Our pictoral directions are definitely included in our welcome packet, which we send out as a pdf document to all clients after they've paid the bill. What is a squat toilet? I didn't know there were two completely separate types of toilets. Does it not have a seat, or something? ...that would explain a lot about the place I just stayed at in Italy. 9. How many pages does it take to print the whole site? Actually, that's a really neat facility. How do you do that? The first time I showed my parents (the house owners -- I run it, they pay for it) a draft of the website, my Mom used up nearly all the green ink in the printer trying to print it out! So I added a printable function. All the content of the site is not stored in html files, but rather in "include" files. The web pages just call up the relevant include file and then display that content. So view.php displays page X with a green background and the left navigational menus, etc.; print.php displays the same page with just a white background. The "print entire site" function just strings together all the includes onto one huge page. All this together means that if I change the content, I just make a change to the include file, and it will change the main page, print page, and print-all page simultaneously. And a question for you from your US perspective: we have an American 1-800 number. Is that going to make any difference in whether or not an American would book with us? I really do think that would help, yes. Granted, I am the sort of person who would book, pay for, and stay at a house without ever actually calling the owners -- I'd do it all over e-mail. But not everyone is like me. A lot of people would prefer to speak to a human being themselves before giving that person large chunks of their money. Put that together with the fact that most Americans never have to call abroad and are a bit afraid of it (calling codes?! what will this cost?!), and an 800 number is just the sort of thing that might put your property just above the others on their list. Phew -- this is a lot to think about, and all good suggestions -- thanks!

Arnold, Good point about the language -- there's been some discussion of this on the Lay My Hat forums as well. When we first designed the site, we figured we'd mostly be advertising by word of mouth, and most of our friends-of-friends are from the US. So it made sense to keep the language American. Plus, if we tried to convert to a more British English, I'm sure it'd just end up an obvious imitation. We'd miss important details because we just wouldn't have thought of it. So the best we could do was try and use proper grammar and hope our UK clients would forgive us for saying we accept checks rather than cheques! We tailor our rental site ads a bit more toward their typical client base -- so our VRBO ad uses all American style English, and our Holiday-Rentals ad is a bit more British. But unfortunately, I don't think this is an issue that can be solved to everyone's satisfaction/familiarity. I do wonder, though, if there are any FAQ questions we miss because we aren't from the UK or Australia. I'm sure there are other concerns that pop up when one is driving one's own car on holiday (vacation), or when one has just flown halfway around the world! I don't think there is a country-dependent difference, though, in our guests' satisfaction levels with the house. At least, not that I've noticed.

As Americans running a gite, we made sure to provide an electric coffee maker (Americans prefer coffee to tea), a microwave and dishwasher, a washer and dryer (Americans who can afford a European vacation generally don't line dry), instructions for making phone calls and running appliances, a huge framed map of the area on one wall, ice cube trays, and plenty of thick, fluffy towels. We also provide toilet paper and sponges and soap and minutae like that. Most Americans do not want to travel on a plane for 7-10 hours only to have to buy TP and dishwashing liquid right off the plane. So if you don't normally provide that, you might offer to do so for a small fee. Also, self-catering is an unknown thing to most Americans. Most of them don't even know to look for it and will spend their European trip at hotels and B&Bs. So Americans who rent gites are not necessarily representative of the country as a whole. In my experience, they're either the type that really want to immerse themselves in the place they visit, OR they're bargain hunters who would be willing to buy their own toilet paper if it will save them a few bucks. Expect the unexpected, is really the best thing I can say. The USA is a very big country, and the prevailing attitudes in California, New York, Florida, Kansas, Texas, etc., are all very different from one another. There are potential guests from hell and potential dream guests from all those places. I would hope that all Americans vacationing in Europe would be aware that their appliances require not only plug adapters but also voltage converters. However, I'm certain that is not the case. They probably don't all know that their laptops' power adapters *don't* require a voltage converter, either. If you do tell them that, also mention that their power adapters provide the same level of power surge protection that they do in the US (that is, likely none). I usually advise that my American clients just purchase small appliances like hair dryers once they're in France -- it's worth the E10 not to have to lug theirs around and risk burning it out. Even with a voltage converter, the appliances draw more power than they're supposed to, and they die easily, but not before (e.g., with a hairdryer) burning the hair they're supposed to dry. Americans generally come to Europe for the history and/or the food. Keep in mind that nothing in the US is older than 300 years or so, so the stuff that they can see in Europe is radically different from anything they've grown up with. It can get kind of overwhelming, so it really helps sometimes to offer a breakdown of the best places/things to see and the best places to eat. But don't be surprised if they do ask for the nearest place to get a cheeseburger -- especially if they have kids! We Americans are weird sometimes, but honestly we're not as strange as the rest of the world seems to think we are.

We were quite horrified to find that our house drains straight into the river near us... and it has for decades according to the previous owners. Apparently all the houses along the river do, which explains why the river is not as clean as it could be. We discovered it when we were cleaning latex paint from our paintbrushes and a thread of white water floated downriver. We now try to do everything we can to minimize pollution, but really, how much can you do? Thankfully the river clean-up project is forcing the town to put us all on city sewer. We can't wait! It should happen in the fall sometime. My point is that it may not be illegal everywhere if it was a pre-existing pipe. But I might be upset as well if I were the neighbor and the pipes were on my land without my permission. Theoretically, couldn't you claim that property as yours after a certain time period, if you are the one actually using it? Perhaps that's what the neighbor is worried about.

This isn't on the subject of breakages exactly... ...but what is up with corkscrews going missing? We can't seem to keep them in the house. We bought 4 on our last trip there and this week there were none left!

I agree with the idea of a 2x2 with the possibility of connecting both gites. You can do this with various types of "hidden" doors, so that if a couple doesn't need access to the second gite, they will never know it is possible to connect them. Also, I agree that it's very difficult to live off the gite income. After all costs are factored in, our gite does not make enough to live off the profits. And this year, we are booked for 21 weeks (in 21 -- Cote d'Or, Burgundy), so bookings are not the problem. I do think it's possible to book a large number of weeks using internet-only advertising (we have). But do *not* underestimate the amount of hours this takes. It is a lot of work, building not only a good personal website but good rental listing ads! Constant vigilance, etc. Good luck!

My parents signed up for Wanadoo ADSL last year for their gite... ...and we haven't used it in months, and they have apparently lost their password and even the login name. I originally installed it on my Dad's computer, but he has since wiped the drive, so all information that I might have saved there is lost. I thought I surely would have e-mailed myself the information, but apparently not. I've searched everywhere. I went to the Wanadoo website and tried to retrieve the lost password, but a) I don't know exactly what the login name is, and b) even if I did, it doesn't look like Wanadoo would send me the password -- just keeps telling me to check my subscription e-mail. So my question is... what do I do now? Thanks.

We do cash the deposit check -- otherwise, what's the point? Likewise, we don't return the deposit right away, because sometimes people hide their breakages etc., and it doesn't become obvious until the next time something is used or moved. We return the deposit within two weeks. A fellow rental owner recently had a lot of damage done by children at her property, and when she contacted the mother to tell her she would have to take some of the deposit, the mother immediately cancelled the check. Another rental owner used to do walk-throughs and return the deposit immediately, until the family who broke the dishwasher and hid it cleverly enough that it didn't show up until the next week. These dishonest people are the reason you take a deposit in the first place -- why give them a way of getting out of paying for damages that are their responsibility? Frankly, if any potential client has a problem with either a) our cashing the deposit check instead of just holding it, or b) our returning it shortly after they leave (but not immediately), then I don't want them staying at the property! ... That being said, we never deduct from the deposit for small breakages like saucers, coasters etc. Not only is that more of normal wear & tear, but it also leaves the client with a good impression of you, and they are hopefully then more likely to either recommend the place to friends or come back the following year. (That is, as long as they weren't so accident-prone that you don't want them to come back!)

We do something similar to Marie. In fact, we state in our house info packet that guests should feel free to re-arrange the furniture in (for example) the salon to suit their tastes. And right on that statement's heels is the request that if they do this, that they return everything to its original place before they leave. It's sort of an attempt to turn a negative into a positive.

Our rental contract states that we reserve the right to make emergency repairs, and that we will do everything possible to find a suitable replacement for the client if it becomes necessary. We have actually had to use this once, but we knew about it slightly in advance and were able to find another gite nearby that had a vacancy. I do think that if a client pays you and shows up at your door and only finds out then that the place isn't suitable (for whatever reason), you're responsible for their accomodation for the entirety of their stay -- you don't have to put them up at the Ritz-Carlton, but you should put a roof over their heads until they find a suitable alternative. Thankfully this hasn't yet happened to us!

Well, we don't send the welcome packet until we receive the final payment. The welcome packet contains directions to the house and instructions for key retrieval. So until they pay us, they can't get into the house. This tends to motivate people to pay. In fact, nearly everyone so far this season has paid early! But typically I just send out an e-mail and very gently remind them that they can't get into the house unless they payment is received in a timely manner, and I've never had problems.

Hm... the website says the targeted circulation is 25000, which makes me think they haven't reached that level yet. Or did I read it wrong?

We did that when we just started our gite. We weren't nearly as careful as you with liability and such, and were fortunate that nothing went wrong. We essentially had a new kitchen installed and traded it (and other assorted work) for two weeks. Since it was our first season, we didn't think we'd fill up anyway, so we didn't think of it as loss of income. As it turned out, the person who did the work only used one week! He technically can still come back anytime and ask for the other week, but as it's been several years since then, it seems unlikely that it will happen. We will honor his request if he does ask, though.

Cneal, Thanks for such detailed feedback! Not entirely sure I understand what good it will do to see how many hits you got compared to someone else though? To my knowledge there's no listing site that does this, but I've always thought it would be useful. If there are 20 properties in my area and I know that the average number of hits on those individual pages is (let's say) 1000 for one month, and the average number of inquiries for those individual properties is 10 for one month, then I can compare that to my own numbers. If I only got 200 hits, it could be because my photos need to be improved. If I got 1000 hits but only 2 inquiries, I am not selling myself as well as I could. On the other hand, if my stats are better than average, it could mean that I'm doing something right, and I want to know that too. Of course, not all the properties will have the same number of bedrooms etc., so the comparison wouldn't exactly be apples to apples, but I think it would still be useful. I completely agree that the page counter should not be displayed on the page -- that just looks tacky and is hard to put into context. I am with you to some extent in thinking that an availability calendar is not so important. You are so right that we rental owners aren't always that good at keeping things up to date. We may be very good at keeping some calendars up to date, but different listing sites have different calendars and it's easy to fall behind in one. Then you have conflicting information -- and that's no good. Personally I'd prefer to have no calendars whatsoever, but on many listing sites there are penalties for doing that, so we're forced to at least have one. It's my understanding that the people searching for rentals want to have this information, so presumably that's why. But let me use an example from last year. I got an inquiry from French Connections for a booked week. FC didn't use calendars at the time, so the client didn't know the week was booked. I was able to sell him on the following week instead. Later I had another inquiry for a booked week with no available weeks around it. At first I just had to tell the client I was fully booked, but then I later had a cancellation and was able to e-mail her and offer her the week she initially inquired about. She made the booking. With availability calendars, I probably would not have made either of those bookings! I use a sort of dynamic database indexing which although sounds grand means that the visitor to the directory does not need to guess what search for. That sounds really interesting -- do you have an example of something like that that I could browse just to get a feeling for it? I'm curious. It just occurred to me, too, that you should consider posting your original question on the Lay My Hat forums (www.laymyhat.com/forum/index.php). It's a forum I post on (I don't own it or anything) that's just for rental owners, and you would certainly get a variety of suggestions there!

Oh, I forgot -- you also asked what we'd like to see in a directory -- sorry! Allow me to link to my own property website! It helps everybody's search engine placement and it helps me to make bookings that originate from your site. I always ask people how they found me, so I'll know they found me through your site even if they inquire from my site. Allow me limited ability to format my descriptive text -- paragraph breaks, bold/italics/underline, ordered/unordered lists. Note:Holiday-Rentals.com doesn't do the two things above, and sometimes I want to kick them for it. Especially for the first one. Don't charge extra to update text and pictures! This drives me crazy -- text especially. There is NO reason that can't be database-driven, especially if the website is planned well! Go take a look at the availability calendar on holidaylets.net -- it's one of the easiest-to-administrate calendars I've found, and the display to the potential client is very attractive (unlike rentors.org, which I find ugly). Note that I don't think calendars are completely necessary -- I got more bookings from French Connections when they didn't use them. Never ever post my e-mail address on the web unless you've taken measures to protect me from getting farmed by address collectors that sell addresses to spammers. Keep track of how many people visited my page in a given week/month and allow me to compare that information (anonymously, or with averages) to that of other properties in my area. Randomize the way people are listed on initial search results so that everyone has a chance to be at the top of the search results -- and perhaps combine this with a system that rewards people who keep their calendar updated (if you have a calendar system). Don't spam people who inquire through your site! E-mail them friendly reminders, sure, but give them an easy and obvious way to opt-out. Just my thoughts!

Cneal, There are definitely a ton of listing sites out there, but for each rental niche there are really only a few that consistently bring in bookings. I would suggest the following: Starting and maintaining a successful rental listing site has got to be a lot of work. Once you have an idea of how much work it will be, you could probably double that and it'd be closer to how much work it actually is. It's marketing and tech work combined, and you probably can't skimp on either of them and hope to make it work. I'd guess that one of the most important things involved in a venture like this is the planning. The site may not at first have all the features you want it to have eventually, but a plan which includes the potential for upgrading and expanding is probably essential, as is a plan that finds a way to compete for the top search engine phrases out there. I don't think there are any sites that can boast fantastic results for every single rental destination in the world. Some are great for the U.S., some are better for France, some are better for Spain, etc. If you're specializing in France, you'll have to do specific things, but that's probably better than trying to become the best rental listing site for every place in the world. I think it would be very difficult to maintain a successful listing site that actually brings in bookings for the clients unless you charged money for it. Free trials, certainly, but not free forever. Granted, I'm writing this from a gite owner's perspective... so these are just my impressions. Good luck!

I've been casting around for a tactful way of saying this, and I think perhaps the best thing would be if a certain member were castigated, or maybe even cast out, before I - and others - become any more downcast. Is it really only one person? It seems like verbal mud is being thrown from several different keyboards. I can see that one person is at the center of it, but at least one or two others certainly aren't helping. I'm asking the question honestly -- like Stu & Syb I'm relatively new to the forums. I've been reluctant to post most of the time because it really does seem like people are willing to be much, much more rude here than they would be if they considered this a "real" place with consequences. Or maybe they are just one of those rude people Miki talked about earlier, I don't know. I certainly haven't had that experience with most people. Either way, oh, a long post to say I agree!

Clair, I think you should put in something like this, but we don't have a pool so I've never needed to worry about it. (That's why I didn't post before.) Your best bet may be to consult a lawyer. Edit: Also, have you tried the Lay My Hat forum? ( http://www.laymyhat.com ) It's a forum devoted to rental property owners -- I post there all the time. There are some threads about swimming pools.

I feel the people you talk about, must be even worse in a "vis a vis" situation. Here they can stay anonymous, whereas in the big world outside, will they be head down with nothing to say for fear of rebutall? Perhaps it is instead that those of us who read but do not join in the bickering are the ones who recognize that our energy is better spent in the "big world outside," rather than in an anonymous forum where no one is accountable and people are more rude to each other than they would be were they to meet on the street. A statement whose impact is somewhat lessened by the fact that I'm posting at all, but that's just the mood I'm in at the moment.

We have a two-page rental agreement which every client must sign before the reservation is considered complete. It specifies that we're providing a furnished holiday rental and that the rental term is not to exceed three months. As everyone else is saying, it's my understanding that that is the way to stay on the side of rental law that favors the landlord. I would never consider renting (holiday rental or not) the house to someone without a signed T&C/rental agreement!

Loopy Lou, Have you thought about how long it would take for you to complete construction (if necessary) at whatever property you buy? You'd have to live without rental income during that season. There are threads available here that discuss how long these things take, but I think the general idea is that it takes far longer than you expect. As to your other questions, I'm not really qualified to talk about that, since we don't depend on our rental income to live. For your own statistics, though, last year we rented 18 weeks (we're in 21, Burgundy) and this year we're at 15 weeks so far. If we did depend on the income, I don't think it would be enough given our costs.

There are a lot of FAQs and suggestions/how-to instructions for advertising your rental property on the Lay My Hat forum (do a search on this phrase; I'm not sure if I'm allowed to post the link). I run a rental property for my parents, and I post on Lay My Hat all the time. I agree, though, that an apartment probably isn't technically a gite. Edit: I also don't think it matters that much.

It is our understanding that, for a furnished holiday let that is less than six months long, the rights are on the side of the landlord. For a tenancy 6 months or over, the tenant can do all of the things mentioned above, including refuse to pay rent, for years before the landlord is able to evict them. I wouldn't even consider renting our second home for a period of more than 5 months, for this reason. I'm not a lawyer, though, so your best bet may be to simply contact a French lawyer who speaks English.