Road Carnage Down. Chirac Says "No" to Amnesty

[The Riff-Raff Element]

Rather interesting. It seems as though the pressure on improving road safety is bearing some fruit....my translation below:

PARIS (Reuters) - Jacques Chirac

s'est prononcé mercredi contre l'amnistie des infractions routières,

hormis le stationnement non dangereux, alors que le nombre des victimes

de la route est passé pour la première fois sous la barre des 5.000 en

2006 en France.

"Dix mille vies épargnées en cinq ans,

cent mille blessés évités, c'est inestimable", a souligné le chef de

l'Etat lors du conseil des ministres, félicitant le gouvernement pour

les efforts déployés depuis 2002 dans le domaine de la sécurité routière.

Le nombre de personnes tuées en 2006 sur

les routes françaises s'est élevé à 4.703, selon la comptabilisation

des décès à 30 jours conforme aux normes européennes, a indiqué

Dominique Perben, ministre des Transports.

Ce bilan représente une baisse du nombre de morts de 11,6% par rapport à 2005 et de 43% depuis 2002.

"Pour autant, il faut se garder de tout

triomphalisme. Les accidents sont encore nombreux, et nous n'avons pas

encore atteint les résultats de nos voisins britanniques ou

néerlandais", a déclaré Jacques Chirac, , qui a fait de la sécurité routière l'un des trois grands chantiers de son quinquennat.

"Nous devrons bien sûr éviter tout

relâchement dans cet effort", a-t-il poursuivi, marquant son hostilité

à toute amnistie, hors stationnement non dangereux.

My quick translation:

Jacques Chircac announced Wednesday

that he has decided against an amnesty for driving offences, except for

non-dangerous parking offences, as the number of road death victims in

France has dropped below 5000 for the first time during 2006.

"10,000 lives saved in five years and

100,000 injuries avoided is invaluable" stressed the head of state

during a cabinet meeting, congratulating the government on the measures

put in place since 2002 to improve road safety.

The number of people killed on French

roads in 2006 amounted to 4703, in line with the European standard

practice of including deaths upto 30 days [after an accident], stated

Dominique Perben, Transport Minister.

The results represented a reduction in the number of deaths of 11.6% against 2005 and 43% since 2002.

"Nonetheless, we must beware of

crowing. Accidents are still numerous, and we have yet to attain the

results of our neighbours in Britain and the Netherlands", declared

Chiorac, who has made improving road safety one of the three most

important tasks of his five-year term.

"We must of course avoid any relaxation

of these efforts," he continued, underlining his hostility to any

amnesty, save for parking offences.

[Bugsy]

Thats a fantastic achievement when you think back not too many years when France were reporting 17-18,000 fatalities a year. My only concern is that they may follow the UK with the 'camera partnership' income generation schemes.

 

and before I get slated I am not apposed to warranted speed enforcement....................[:)]

[Teamedup]

I am really glad. It was really noticeable about three or four years ago when we returned from the UK. On the autoroute des anglais no one was speeding. It all felt slower and I had been hoping that death rates would go down, it is great news.

[Sunday Driver]

I find that speed limits are generally adhered to - certainly in our part of France.  When we went back to the UK for a visit last year, the only speeding vehicles that overtook us on the autoroute up to Calais were Brit registered cars. When we took our daughter to Nantes airport last Tuesday, we were mercilessly tailgated on the 90kph peripherique by the only speeding motorist that day - a UK registered X-Trail....

One could argue that the so called "camera partnerships" are only being sustained because people can't/won't drive within the authorised speed limit.   The French appear to be cleverer than the British in this respect....[;-)]

 

 

[Deimos]

There was a UK government report a month or two ago (from their Road Transport Research whatever) that was saying that speed is not the main cause of accidents as had previously been thought (as often repeated). Their research shown that it was actually drivers not paying attention to what they were doing. Of course greater speed tended to make the accident worse - but the greatest cause was not paying attention to driving (e.g. children in back, mobile phones, mind wanders when bored, etc.)

Ian

[Bugsy]

[quote user="Sunday Driver"]

I find that speed limits are generally adhered to - certainly in our part of France.  When we went back to the UK for a visit last year, the only speeding vehicles that overtook us on the autoroute up to Calais were Brit registered cars. When we took our daughter to Nantes airport last Tuesday, we were mercilessly tailgated on the 90kph peripherique by the only speeding motorist that day - a UK registered X-Trail....

One could argue that the so called "camera partnerships" are only being sustained because people can't/won't drive within the authorised speed limit.   The French appear to be cleverer than the British in this respect....[;-)]

[/quote]

Same here regarding general observance of posted limits. There is still a strange resistance in fairly large groups of the UK population to speed cameras and the like. You would think that reality would kick in and once realised that you can't actually 'beat them' why not just observe the limits and enjoy the journey.

I do hate this strange activity of 'tail-gating' that seems to be prevelant in France, 110k on the N10 and the guy behind you is so close that you can't see his bonnet. I do sometimes have a real urge to just pull the handbrake on for a second but the thought of all the paperwork that would involve, brings me back to reality.

[cooperlola]

Ian Deimos, my gut feeling is that the report is pretty bang on but it still begs the question as to how come the French experience seems to be that its cracks-down on speeding have contributed to what are significant reductions in fatalities.  As a fellow driver, I always feel that it is the "ditherers" ( don't mean people driving slowly, necessarily, just those who do not appear to be 100% concentrated on the road conditions) that are the accidents waiting to happen, not always those who are driving above the limit.  Is it because, for fear of being caught for speeding, there is less overtaking in France than there was?  It has always seemed to me that on the long straight roads of France, it is the appaling overtaking "techniques" ( I use the term with a hint of irony! ) which contributed to the large number of fatalities.  God forbid that you should change down when overtaking, or leave the overtakee any space once you've passed them!

[cooperlola]

Gary - like you I resist brake testing these idiots, but try putting your rear fog-lights on very quickly - that wakes 'em up!

[Clair]

[quote user="Bugbear"]I do hate this strange activity of 'tail-gating' that seems to be prevelant in France, 110k on the N10 and the guy behind you is so close that you can't see his bonnet. I do sometimes have a real urge to just pull the handbrake on for a second but the thought of all the paperwork that would involve, brings me back to reality.[/quote]

I remember from the days of accompanying my mother on her driving lessons, that this is the way she was taught to drive and be ready to overtake... It seems crazy, but it's 'how they do things here'.

Last week, we saw a lorry struggling up the long twisty 15km road from the town to the village, round the numerous bends and closely followed by a single car, driven right up his bumper and taking in all the 'lovely' exhaust fumes every time the lorry driver changes gear!

[cooperlola]

Yes, Clair, this is what I find - I talked to a young man who has recently passed his test and he told me the same - this is the way he was taught.  What is odd, though, is that it is positively NOT the technique described in the Code Rousseau (I've just looked it up) - that is quite clearly described as being the same as the UK Higway Code standard!

[The Riff-Raff Element]

[quote user="cooperlola"]Ian Deimos, my gut feeling is that the report

is pretty bang on but it still begs the question as to how come the

French experience seems to be that its cracks-down on

speeding have contributed to what are significant reductions in

fatalities.  As a fellow driver, I always feel that it is the

"ditherers" ( don't mean people driving slowly, necessarily, just those

who do not appear to be 100% concentrated on the road conditions) that

are the accidents waiting to happen, not always those who are driving

above the limit.  Is it because, for fear of being caught for

speeding, there is less overtaking in France than there was?  It

has always seemed to me that on the long straight roads of France, it

is the appaling overtaking "techniques" ( I use the term with a hint of

irony! ) which contributed to the large number of fatalities.  God

forbid that you should change down when overtaking, or leave the

overtakee any space once you've passed them![/quote]

Well, strictly it isn't the speed that kills but the stopping suddenly.

Of course, the more momentum (velocity x mass) that you have, the more

likely you are to turn yourself  / your victim into pâté, so from

the point of view of the severity of injury, speed does is obviously a

contributing factor.

The authorities reckon that the biggest impact on the figures has come

from clamping down on speeding, followed by more proactive policing of

drink driving and, third, reducing the number of people trying to send

text messages when they should be looking forward. The next campaign, I

am led to believe, will be more urban in its approach - "encouraging"

drivers to stop at crossings, being more harsh on dangerous parking -

to try and reduce the pedestrian toll a bit.

[Ford Anglia]

[quote user="Deimos"]

There was a UK government report a month or two ago (from their Road Transport Research whatever) that was saying that speed is not the main cause of accidents as had previously been thought (as often repeated). Their research shown that it was actually drivers not paying attention to what they were doing. Of course greater speed tended to make the accident worse - but the greatest cause was not paying attention to driving (e.g. children in back, mobile phones, mind wanders when bored, etc............

Ian

[/quote]

.............Keep looking at speedo instead of at the road..........

[Deimos]

[quote user="Ford Anglia"][quote user="Deimos"]

There was a UK government report a month or two ago (from their Road Transport Research whatever) that was saying that speed is not the main cause of accidents as had previously been thought (as often repeated). Their research shown that it was actually drivers not paying attention to what they were doing. Of course greater speed tended to make the accident worse - but the greatest cause was not paying attention to driving (e.g. children in back, mobile phones, mind wanders when bored, etc............

Ian

[/quote]

.............Keep looking at speedo instead of at the road..........

[/quote]

I find keeping a decent standard of driving quite difficult when being followed by a police car (not following me, just they happen to be going the same way). In a UK 30 limit I tend to find I end up watching the speedo far to much and in a 30 limit one should really be paying more attention to the road. Not noticed it happening in France but probably as, being rural, the gendarmes cars are not very noticeable behind you.

Ian

[Sunday Driver]

Keeping to the urban speed limit is one of the key competencies you have to demonstrate before you can receive your driving licence.  All new/inexperienced/young drivers are able to do it, so why can't everyone else?

Speed control is pretty easy - you've got pedals and a gearlever to help you.  Three of our local towns have steepish hills, all in the 50kph limit - I just select third gear and I know my car will hold about 47kph downhill without any other inputs.  I don't even need to watch the speedo - but I do peep, of course...[;-)]

My motorbike is a bit louder than the limo, so I tend to use the engine note a lot more as a judge of my speed.

Then again, I am a riding God.....

 

 

[Bugsy]

[quote user="Sunday Driver"]

Then again, I am a riding God.....

[/quote]

So are you coming out with us on Saturday, oh great one........................[8-|]

[Teamedup]

I remember a conversation between two blokes I know. One was saying very loudly that it was IMPOSSIBLE to drive through our village at the 30kph limits we have now. The other bloke said that he dropped down into third. At which point the noisey bloke looked like he was going to blow a fuse and announced to the world even more loudly that the other bloke was barjo.

I know quite a lot of people who just find having to change down on a normal road where it  looks like one can 'just drive' as being just plain wrong.

I agree that the tailgating and snaking in and out of the traffic still exists and usually by BMW drivers more than any others, that is just the way it has always been. The motorways do seem tamer than in years gone by.

[Deimos]

[quote user="Sunday Driver"]

Keeping to the urban speed limit is one of the key competencies you have to demonstrate before you can receive your driving licence.  All new/inexperienced/young drivers are able to do it, so why can't everyone else?

Speed control is pretty easy - you've got pedals and a gearlever to help you.  Three of our local towns have steepish hills, all in the 50kph limit - I just select third gear and I know my car will hold about 47kph downhill without any other inputs.  I don't even need to watch the speedo - but I do peep, of course...[;-)]

[/quote]

In my case I can keep to the 30/50 limit without problems. It's just when I have a police car following me I feel the need to keep checking I have not allowed my speed to creep up at all - which it invariably has not, just the police car's presence seems to make me keep checking.

I actually find it very easy driving at exactly 50 without even glancing at the speedo. Maybe its being used to going through villages all the time but most of the time I rarely look at the speedo until well into the village and I'm invariably doing 50 (kmph).

I don't tend to think of this as any type of skill but just being used to slowing down to that speed.

Ian

[Teamedup]

Our village and lots of villages around here are down to 30kmh. I do find that hard to keep to.

[Quillan]

I had not really given the speeding issue in France much thought but thinking about it I have seen more mobile speed guns being used in France than I ever did back in the UK. I have also noticed that drivers in villages where I live have in general slowed right down and appear to abide by the speed limits over the last two or three years.

When I bought my 307 it was a year old and has not only cruise control but speed limiting which is really great. Set your speed at 50kph and it does not matter how hard you push the throttle it won’t go any faster. I thought only expensive cars have this device but obviously not and I find it very helpful, you don’t have to keep your eye on the Speedo when driving in the village. Perhaps they could fit these to all cars as standard and then its down to the individual whether they use it or not.

I have observed that here are far less of these ‘black’ cut-outs along the road which I believe indicate a fatality which certainly ties in with the reduction in overall road deaths. Personally I would like them to be used in the UK, it may make people think a bit more.

I thought the comments about learning to drive funny but can well believe them as being true. We have had parking bays marked out in Quillan for some time including opposite the (only) driving school in the town. The parking of the cars used to teach students is absolutely terrible and at times not even in the bay so it makes me wonder about the quality of instruction students get. I did actually ask a French friend if parking was taught as part of driving instruction and she assured me it was which at times I find hard to believe. So to hear that they intend to ‘come down’ on bad and dangerous parking is to me a good thing. I love the way some people consider crossings as an extra parking bay and park on top of them and the lady that stops at 45 degrees on the corner, in the middle of the road, to have a chat with her friend.

I don’t know if it’s part of the way French thinking but sometimes they appear to take things literally. Many of our non French guests mention overtaking and in particular the risks French drivers seem to take. They also mention tailgating as well. We live a short distance from the spectacular Pierre-Lys Gorge. The road going through it is truly spectacular with over hanging rock formations, very twisty and narrow at times. This is the main route from Carcassonne to Perpignan for cars and lorries including artic lorries that in some places have to drive on the opposite side of the road because of the over hangs. There is no real speed limit except in a couple of places although I think you must be suicidal to attempt to drive through it any faster than 55kph which is what I tell my guests to do.

I use this route as an example to my guests as to how the French drivers think. If it is a dashed white line you can overtake, if it’s a solid line you can’t. So what happens if the road narrows to a point where there is no line? Well the French drivers consider that they can over take even on blind bends, the really tight ones, the ones that when you see them do it your breath is taken away and swear words are shouted out and you break because you are waiting for the bits of twisted metal to come bouncing back at you. The (young and/or inexperienced) motorcyclists are the worse as they attempt to use the whole road (a common practice in France and not just restricted to motorcyclists) only to find a lorry on the wrong side of the road getting round one of the overhangs. Not many walk away from that one. We have about 5 or 6 fatalities in the gorge every year, most in the winter where its worse as the sun never reaches the road and the ice never melts.

[Ford Anglia]

Some years ago, I wrote to the then department of transport, asking why we, in the UK, no longer had any signs warning of accident blackspots, ( I WELL remember the signs on the I think, Sidcup bypass, proclaiming "Death Hill, Accident Blackspot" ), and why we didn't use the French system of black silhouettes, or similar, to mark the scenes of fatal accidents.

I have long since lost the reply, but it stated that, fistly, there ARE no accident blackspots in the UK, since if there were, hmg would have done something about it, (for this, read that hmg can't ADMIT to an accident blackspot, as THEN they'd HAVE to do something about it[;-)] ), and secondly, the use of cutouts or signs of any kind would distract drivers and lead to accidents.

So...........a bit like speed cameras then?

[Teamedup]

Quillan your cruise control sounds dangerous. I have only used it on one car, but it clicked off if one accelerated AND I can think of many situations where one would have to accelerate out of danger, rather than brake. I would not have thought that one would want to be trying to get a control off in a haserdous situation.

IF this is how 'all' cruise controls work, I'll be giving them a miss.

 

Sadly I have just read a couple of articles saying that road accidents are on the increase again in France. I hope that they get them down again.

[Quillan]

Cruise control and speed limiting are two different things but use the same type of technology.

Speed limiting allows you to accelerate as hard as you like but once you reach a set speed you can't go any faster. If you set it a 50kph and floor the car from standstill it will go like a rocket till it reaches’s 50kph. If it's set to the speed limit you are in why would you want to accelerate faster past that speed limit?

Cruise control will hold a car at a set speed up and down hill and on the level but it will disengage when the throttle, brake, gear stick or hand break are used. It is excellent for long drives on the motorway as it will drive the car far more economically than us humans ever can because the throttle changes are far more subtle to keep the speed the same. You notice this on the motorway when you click in at 130kph. Cars overtake and 10 minutes later you overtake them because they just can't maintain their speed manually without either putting their foot down hard or taking it off to much. The modern systems are very safe, were it not I don't think the car manufacturers would be allowed to install them.

 

[Teamedup]

There are plenty of situations where one could need to 'drive' out of a situation and taking account of the speed limit would not be on your mind if you needed to do this. I don't care if these are 'supposed' to be safe, they don't sound safe to me and I wouldn't use anything that controlled my car like that.  

[Cassis]

"Speed limiting" at speeds as low as 50kph sounds like a major contribution to road danger.  Cruise control, fine, but this idea sounds bonkers.  I know coaches have this but it is set at a much higher level, not at levels where you might reasonably need to accelerate to avoid danger.

[cooperlola]

I think the mere concept of accelerating out of danger may be incomprehensible to some (and before anybody starts, I do not mean posters here - just a general observation.)  If you see something scary - jam on the anchors![:-))]