Tax disc upon return to the UK

[Chancer]

I thought that a lot of the replies on here to Owen were uncalled for and showed frustration which perhaps should not have been directed at someone trying to get information to do the right thing.

After using his link to his previous thread I am now convinced of this.

To Owen - I apologise on behalf of the others that cannot find it within themselves to do so.

Good luck on your return, you probably will not have a problem with ANPR and if you tax your car at the first opportunity within the month I expect you will be OK.

[Chezstevens]

[quote user="J.R."]

I thought that a lot of the replies on here to Owen were uncalled for and showed frustration which perhaps should not have been directed at someone trying to get information to do the right thing.

After using his link to his previous thread I am now convinced of this.

To Owen - I apologise on behalf of the others that cannot find it within themselves to do so.

Good luck on your return, you probably will not have a problem with ANPR and if you tax your car at the first opportunity within the month I expect you will be OK.

[/quote]

Sorry JR,

If he has been driving in France on UK plates, that is SORN'd or the Tax disc has lapsed(Sunday Driver made this very clear on the original thread), on French Insurance then he is wrong.  Endex.  

Please don't half read a thread then consider you can apologise on our behalf .

Owen White  if you are sure you are in the right - give us your Reg No and date arriving in the UK with Port.  Don't change your insurance for UK insurance - since you have been driving for 9+ months in France and it doesn't run out till July - don't get a Tax Disc just for returning to the UK since you considered it not required for France.  C&E are then best placed to advise you of your rights.

 

[dogwood]

Hi Dago

No probs mate[:D]

It's just I had a flee up my a** about the first post!!  so took it out on you .

Hi Russethouse.

My wife had her accident in England, she was hit by a European driver,(not French) A lttle further to the East...

Infact a lot further East[:@]

She did go through the MIB (Men in black) but she only got paid out for her out of pocket expences. Wages etc. which was nowwere near what she would have been awarded if the ******* had been insured[:'(]

I had a simlar accident and was awarded 3times what she was, because with my accident the guy was insured.

Dogwood AQR

 

[cooperlola]

Yup, Chezstevens.  Please do not apologise on my behalf, JR.  It's difficult to give ligitimate advice about something which is clearly illegal on an open forum anyway.  The OP seems to be asking how they can circumvent the law, no?

[Mel Prett]

 Owen one assumes that your car is a new one and doesn't need a mot it it does then you really do have a problem getting a tax disk

[Bob T]

No one has the right to apologise on my behalf, I meant every word that I said. I hope that anyone who disregerds the law has his car confiscated and gets a huge fine.

[Chancer]

OK so I feel the need to apologise to those who I previously apologised for on the basis that they couldn't find it within themselves.

I have read the whole post and also Owens original.

Everybody talks about him being illegal, breaking the law etc, for heavens sake this is a young man who came here to work for a limited period and sought (and acted on) good advice about what to do. Now he is returning home and the only thing that I can see that you are condemning him for is driving in France without a UK tax disc (which he tried to get).

I came here for the foreseeable future but it still took me nearly a year to do the right thing and register my car, I am one of the few in my departement that have done so despite some living here for over 5 years, I completely understand why he sought the advice that he did and acted on it and also now why he is a little concerned about returning without a tax disc that he has not been able to get..

Would it not be better to use the self-rightousness on the French and/or Polish, Lituanians etc etc and ask them how long they have been in the UK? Are their cars still taxed in their home countries? Do they know they are illegal etc?

I am sure most, if not all French people would not condemn this young man during his short visit, including the Gendarmes, but hey what the hell, send his details to the UK customs and excise perhaps they will take it seriously.

[fulcrum]

[quote user="Bob T"]No one has the right to apologise on my behalf, I meant every word that I said. I hope that anyone who disregerds the law has his car confiscated and gets a huge fine.

[/quote]

Bob

We are all entitled to our opinions.

I had earlier posted a rather silly reply to the OP. I have since deleted it. I felt like apologising after reading the OP's original enquiries. After all I

don't think he was deliberately  being criminally  minded but really

wanted to do the right thing. None of us here in France know exactly how to go

about everything, hence this forum. We are all at differing levels of French

and finances and employability.

So I do feel like apologising for my rather silly post.

[Chezstevens]

[quote user="fulcrum"][quote user="Bob T"]No one has the right to apologise on my behalf, I meant every word that I said. I hope that anyone who disregerds the law has his car confiscated and gets a huge fine.
[/quote]

Bob
We are all entitled to our opinions.

I had earlier posted a rather silly reply. I have since deleted it. I felt like apologising after reading the OP's original enquiries. After all I don't think he was deliberately  being criminally  minded but really wanted to do the right thing. None of us here in France know exactly how to go about everything, hence this forum. We are all at differing levels of French and finances and employability.

So I do feel like apologising for my rather silly post.
[/quote]

Yes he did ask the questions on his original enquiry.  Cherry picked what suited him - ignoring Sunday Drivers immediate advice about ensuring your T&T is valid.  Does not take much to find his advice - it is the third post!!

[Chancer]

Well I for sure still cherry pick what advice I act on (after all some of it is either not correct or has shall we say an "agenda" to it) I certainly was very bad at not acting on good advice in my 20's.

However he stated that he had tried and was unable to get UK tax with a French insurance certificate, so much for the right to insure your car in whatever EU country you choose.

My final thought is that I consider it unfair to brand Owen as a criminal and to wish that he (and other criminals) has his car confiscated for not having UK road tax (which he has tried to get) whilst a temporary visitor in this country, it is a civil not criminal offence in the UK.

Thankfully he wont return saying that the French gave him a hard time and branded him as a criminal whilst a temporary worker here.

This posting overlapped your one Dogwood.

I think he insured his car here following the advice of SD that he could get temporary cover here for the duration of his stay.

Let the man return to legality in peace

[dogwood]

JR

But why did he insure it in France in the first place?

If he had no intentions of regestering it here. He should have kept his English insurance

Dogwood

[Owen White]

[quote user="dogwood"]

But why did he insure it in France in the first place?

If he had no intentions of regestering it here. He should have kept his English insurance

Dogwood

[/quote]

I got french insurance because i knew that the car would not be covered under my previous UK insurance. My French insurance company (AXA Limonier) informed me that there was no need to register to car in France or to get a CT (as i had a valid MOT), as the period in France was going to be less than a year. If what ive read on here is true, then i have been wrongly advised by the insurance company.

I now need to un-SORN my car ASAP so i can arrange UK tax disc and UK insurance b4 my return. Putting all grudges/moral opinions aside, could anyone simply advise me on what form i need to obtain to do this (legally declaring the car back on the road)?

thanks,

Owen

[Russethouse]

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/OwningAVehicle/UntaxedVehicle/DG_4022058

Try this page - there is a phone number too. ( Even if the right form is not there you may find it on the site)

It also says that their is an exception about driving on the road without tax and that is to get to the MOT station, so I think you will need to book a MOT at your port of entry and go straight there. If possible get this appointment confirmed in writing (email, fax) Get your form filled in and have the address of the nearest PO that issues road tax ready.

Please check this with Sunday Driver - he knows far better than me about such things!

[cooperlola]

Owen, does it need an MOT?  If not, I think you can just insure it with your new UK address, then re-apply for the tax in the normal way (there's a tear-off bit on the SORN I think, for this purpose - for cars in Britain which have been off the road and then are put back on).  If it has no MOT, then I believe you must drive it back to the UK under your French insurance (hoping you don't have an accident on the way), take it to a garage, get it an MOT and then follow the same route.  Basically, just follow the instructions on the SORN which tell you how to put it back on the road and act as if it had never been out of the country.

[dogwood]

Hi Owen

First I would like to appologize to you if I came across all moral and aggresive  ( I don't need anybody to appologize for me)  If you read my other posts you can see why I get very uptight about these people who just blatently flaunt the rules by hiding behind the old " I'm English I don't understand!!" chestnut[:@]

I can see now that you have attemted to do the right thing but was subject to some dodgy info. I beleive your Insurance agent may have misinformed you. 

(I could be wrong it has happend before [blink] ) I still beleive I am correct with the information I gave you in my first post.

So take care because there is a possability you insurance will not fully cover you if you have an accident. 

Dogwood AQR

 

[Sunday Driver]

Now that Owen has given a more detailed explanation of his situation, it's clear that he is not quite the villain of the piece, even though his original post clearly gave that impression.  On that basis, people's reactions were arguably justified, therefore apologies are not called for.  I think Owen will understand.

The original advice he received concerning his long term visit to France was correct and he was specifically advised that he ensure his UK tax was valid for the duration of his stay.  He didn't do this, so he was faced with the difficulty of retaxing his car from abroad.  Whilst his French insurance was valid for driving whilst in France, it was not acceptable for retaxing - that's why he was advised to make sure the tax didn't expire whilst he was in France.

Instead of taking out a new UK policy and applying for a tax disc, he chose to improperly declare SORN so that he could continue to drive his car without that additional expense.  The information he received from his French insurers was quite correct and he remains fully covered for any third party liabilities through his French policy.

All he has to do now is follow the advice given about taxing his car before (or immediately on) his arrival in the UK.

 

[Ecossais]

Owen,

As far as I can make out from the Government Motoring / DVLA website (http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/index.htm) in order to “un-SORN” a vehicle you need a Vehicle License Application “V10” form – you can download and print this, and all the other motoring forms, here:  http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Diol1/DoItOnline/Doitonlinemotoring/DG_10031645

The “V10” is the form you would use if you didn’t have the tax disc renewal letter that you normally receive a few weeks before the tax disc runs out.  Note that in answer to one of the questions on the V10, you either insert the date of expiry of the last tax disc or “SORN” if appropriate.

You will need to provide the following documents at the time of application:

• Vehicle Registration Certificate V5C (“Log Book”)

• Insurance Certificate or Cover Note

• MOT Certificate if the car is older than 3 years

You should be able to arrange insurance over the internet – I assume you’ve still got a UK address that this can be sent to?  It may be worthwhile making the start date 2 -3 weeks earlier than your return date in order to give you time to sort out the tax disc?

It would probably be easiest to post your V10 + Vehicle Registration Certificate + MOT (if needed) to a friend in the UK who can take these along with the Insurance Certificate to a Post Office and obtain the tax disc for you and post it and your documents to you.  You can find out the cost of the tax disc here:  http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/OwningAVehicle/HowToTaxYourVehicle/DG_4022118

Alternatively, you could try applying for your tax disc online:  http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/Motoringtransactions/DG_10034732

If your car needs an MOT and you don’t have one, you will not be able to get a tax disc and your Insurance will probably not be valid.  You would need to book an MOT at a garage close to the ferry terminal and go straight there when you land in the UK.  Once you’ve got the MOT, go to a Post Office with your documents.

 

[P]

Perhaps when people are in a situation such as Owen, if they are trying to do the right things, the best course of action would be to talk to the relevant authority, in this case the DVLA. They would have been able to advise him exactly how he should have handled his temporary move to France and he would not find himself in the situation that he is in now. I wonder if a call might help now.

The above is not meant to diminish the excellent advice that the likes of SD provides.

Paul

[Russethouse]

The link I posted included the phone number for that reason, however Owen will have to follow all the advice they give, not just the bits that seem logical to him. (Sorry Owen !)

I suspect that Cooperlola is correct and that the document he needs to fill in is included on the SORN form. I'm fairly sure I have read that Owens car does require a MOT so what he could do now is make sure that it us up to standard to pass a test so he doesn't incur extra costs (like a night in a hotel while his car is attended to for example) when he gets back.

Also it may in any case be worth his checking that he will be able to buy his road fund license at the post office. Our present car had previously been registered under a motorability scheme and to register it in our names I had to go to a local DVLA center.

Be prepared !

 

[Will]

Unfortunately the DVLA and similar bodies do not always give out the correct advice. Older users of the forum may remember a case of somebody in a similar position to Owen who was told by DVLA that SORN was the correct thing to do; this turned out to be the wrong information and the person was faced with prosecution on return to Britain. So do double check, via something like the government websites that have been linked from several posts here.

I don't think all the responses have been rude or unhelpful by any means, I for one tried to tell Owen what he should do, and give warnings of potential problems he may face.

I think the most difficult thing is likely to be getting back into Britain, because he will not have the necessary tax disc or documentation and is very likely to be stopped at the point of entry. However, I think that if he explains what he has arranged and shows he is trying to retrieve the situation and do the right things as far as possible there should not be any difficulty. I remember, well before the current rules came in, that we took a vehicle back to Britain that was in the process of being registered in France and consequently had no tax disc - although a PC noticed this he was quite satisfied with the explanation (particularly as it was a LHD car with French insurance). Not the same situation as Owen's, but several parallels. When I mentioned it at the time on this forum's predecessor there was some unpleasantness from another user who claimed to be a former traffic policeman and got all holier-than-thou (and worse).

It's very easy to get self-righteous when it is not you who is trying to do things properly but the system doesn't really fit your needs and situation.

[cooperlola]

Or perhaps take a trip back to the UK for the MOT now while the French insurance still "covers" it?  Have you made any trips to the UK under the French insurance during your stay here?

It does not sound as if this was Owen's fault - simply that he followed poor advice.  In fact, I am very surprised he found a French company willing to insure his UK registered vehicle.  When I did mine, they were unequivocal in telling me that it was purely temporary and that I must re-register it within the prescribed timescales or I would be black-listed by the entire insurance community over here!  Anyway, what's done is done so I guess he just has to grit his teeth and hope!

[Sunday Driver]

Sorry, but it clearly was Owen's fault.  The advice I originally gave him about maintaining his UK tax up to date whilst abroad was correct and was based on the DVLA's published procedure.  The advice I gave him about obtaining French insurance during his stay here was also correct and has since been confirmed by his French insurer. 

The situation mentioned by cooperlola refers to cover requirements for vehicles being used by French residents importing a foreign vehicle.  Owen did not fall into this category (his UK registered vehicle was over here under the "visitor" rule for non-residents and therefore he was not required to import and re-register the car) so he was perfectly entitled to apply to a French insurer for commercial cover during his stay because his vehicle was completely legal at the time.  The fact that he subsequently got things wrong over his UK road tax has no relevance to the insurance position.

To draw a line under this, according to the official DVLA rules, in order to re-tax an untaxed/SORNed vehicle, he is permitted to drive it to an MOT station, provided he has a pre-arranged appointment.  In Owen's case, the nearest MOT test station to his French address (where he has obviously kept the vehicle off the road....) is the nearest one to the ferry terminal.  He can then pop into the nearest post office with his fresh MOT and new UK insurance certificate (dated from his anticipated arrival in the UK), complete a form V10 "Application for a vehicle licence" and obtain a new tax disc.

End of story.

 

 

 

[Chezstevens]

It is a shame that there is not a shared european system for recognising and processing vehicle registrations by road side camera / police vehicle computer.  That would stop all transgressions.  Same rules as UK - not legal on the road then off to the crusher it goes.

This is not aimed at White Owen per se, but the ''chancers'' that all countries in europe have.   

That and National ID cards to stop valuable assets being used up by benefit and health tourists (insert scroungers).

[cooperlola]

Humble appologies, SD!  I did not appreciate that he had been advised to maintain his Brit tax - in which  case the situation in which he finds himself is just plain tough.

Reminder to self : read the thread properly before posting!!! - one of the major problems when they go around in circles, I'm afraid.[:$]

[Owen White]

thanks for all your help everyone - i'm sure we'll never agree on all the points but the advice ive received on this forum has been very useful. there are so many pitfalls and it's useful to be able to get advice from people who have already gone through these/similar procedures.

Just to clear one point up, as i mentioned before, my car is fully MOTed - it was done just before my departure for france, therefore it runs until end of may 07.

i will get all the forms filled in this weekend to get the vehicule back on the road and arrange insurance and a tax disc before i return to the UK in four weeks time.