Do I need a French driving licence?

[Dc]

Can anybody advise me of the licence rules in France. I got stopped in La Rochelle this morning and asked to show insurance docs, carte grise and driving licence. The policeman advised me that as I lived in France and was not on holiday that my uk licence was not valid and that I should exchange my licence for a French one at the prefecture. I don't want too as I may go back to UK???? Any advice greatly appreciated.

 

regards

dc

[Nick Trollope]

No you don't. Plenty of explainations on this site, do a search.

If the rozzer or anyone else tells you otherwise, they are wrong (assuming you are a) an EU citizen b) under 70 c) have no significant medical conditions d) don't break any French traffic laws).

 

[Ron Avery]

I know that what you are saying is right Nick, certainly for a UK card and paper license, but what about if you only have a UK paper license that does not show the EC sign?  Is that still valid in France?

[Dc]

This was a plastic uk licence with the European symbol!!!!

 

dc

[Ron Avery]

"This was a plastic uk licence with the European symbol"

Then what Nick said was 110% correct. Mr Flick was wrong...... as is normal when it comes to UK licenses.

[Sunday Driver]

The old green driving licence was a national licence only.  In pre-EU days, it was acceptable for use in France but not, for example, in Italy where it had to be accompanied by an international driving permit.

The green licence does not show the standard EU driving entitlement codes and was replaced by the pink EU version which is the one which is valid for all EU countries.

 

 

 

[Will]

This is a very common error made by a lot of French police. Many prefectures will, rather than change your licence unnecessarily, give you a copy of an EU document that you can show to the gendarmes, proving that under normal circumstances a licence issued in one EU country is valid in others.

 

[Patf]

We had a visit from the gendarmes this morning. Husband was caught by a radar camera and fined. Now he has to change to a french license so that they can deduct the points. Is this correct and is he really obliged to change? Pat.

[Bob T]

Yes

[Sunday Driver]

Code de la route Art R222-2:

All persons having their normal residence in France and holding a driving licence issued by an EU member state and valid in that state can, without having to submit to a driving test, exchange it for a French driving licence.

The exchange of such a licence for a French licence is obligatory whenever the holder commits on French national territory, a traffic offence resulting in a restriction, suspension, withdrawal of the right to drive, or deduction of points.

Failure to effect an exchange under the above circumstances is punishable by a fine under offence category four.

 

[David]

I am a little concerned by the fact that my local prefecture refuses to change my UK pink licence for a French one, unless we have been stopped by the gendarms and are liable to some points deductions.

I know that they are correct, but I am looking to the future.  We are settled in France and do not have a UK address.  Thus when we reach the age of 70 we will be unable to renew our UK licence.  As the French will not renew the UK licence this will leave us without a valid driving licence, unless we go out and break some road laws in order to "earn" some points.

Is this correct?

A further thought is for those with pink licences who have a little way to go before reaching 70.  Assuming that they are not stopped by the gendarms, will the new regulations due to come in next year allowing points to be deducted from national licences in another country mean that it will be then be impossible to change to a French licence at the age of 70, even if points have been "earned"?  Again what will happen at age 70?

Many thanks,

David

[shimble]

bo!!o* they're going to be hassling me to exchange my license then got radared last month ....great

[Alexis]

David, I had this problem.

I had a letter from the Préfecture saying that I didn't need a French driving licence which I carried around with my UK licence.  I finally got around this by going and applying at the Sub-prefecture and they issued one.  After 13 years!

It took eight months to arrive...

You have to insist.  Other people I know got their licences with no trouble at the Préfecture but me....???

[Benjamin]

Strictly speaking yes but in practice, certainly in this area, probably not.

I had a one pointer last year, received the demand for payment, paid it on line and have heard nothing more. A pal of mine had two one pointers last year and after the second he had a visit from the local Gendarmes. They wanted to see his UK licence and had a discussion with him about changing it for a French licence; but that was all it was - a discussion.

He did nothing and has since heard no more.

Maybe it's an area thing?

Benjamin

[Sunday Driver]

[quote user="David"]

I am a little concerned by the fact that my local prefecture refuses to change my UK pink licence for a French one, unless we have been stopped by the gendarms and are liable to some points deductions.

I know that they are correct, but I am looking to the future.  We are settled in France and do not have a UK address.  Thus when we reach the age of 70 we will be unable to renew our UK licence.  As the French will not renew the UK licence this will leave us without a valid driving licence, unless we go out and break some road laws in order to "earn" some points.

Is this correct?

A further thought is for those with pink licences who have a little way to go before reaching 70.  Assuming that they are not stopped by the gendarms, will the new regulations due to come in next year allowing points to be deducted from national licences in another country mean that it will be then be impossible to change to a French licence at the age of 70, even if points have been "earned"?  Again what will happen at age 70?

Many thanks,

David

[/quote]

David, your prefecture is not correct - they have applied Article R222-1 which says you don't have to exchange because your UK licence is valid. That explains why they gave Alexis a letter for the gendarmes.

However, it's Article R222-2 of the code de la route which gives you the right to exchange your licence if you want to.  The prefecture cannot refuse because it's the law.  Here it is in French:

CODE DE LA ROUTE

Livre : Livre 2

Titre : Titre 2 Permis de conduire (Articles L221-1 à L225-9) (Articles R221-1 à R225-5)

Chapitre : Chapitre II

Textes : Décret R222-2

Thème : Echange contre le permis de conduire français

Contenu :

Toute personne ayant sa résidence normale en France, titulaire d'un permis de conduire national délivré par un Etat membre de la Communauté européenne ou d'un autre Etat partie à l'accord sur l'Espace économique européen, en cours de validité dans cet Etat, peut, sans qu'elle soit tenue de subir les examens prévus au premier alinéa de l'article R. 221-3, l'échanger contre le permis de conduire français selon les modalités définies par arrêté du ministre chargé des transports, pris après avis du ministre de la justice, du ministre de l'intérieur et du ministre chargé des affaires étrangères.

L'échange d'un tel permis de conduire contre le permis français est obligatoire lorsque son titulaire a commis, sur le territoire français, une infraction au présent code ayant entraîné une mesure de restriction, de suspension, de retrait du droit de conduire ou de retrait de points. Cet échange doit être effectué selon les modalités définies par l'arrêté prévu à l'alinéa précédent, aux fins d'appliquer les mesures précitées.

Le fait de ne pas effectuer l'échange de son permis de conduire dans le cas prévu à l'alinéa précédent est puni de l'amende prévue pour les contraventions de la quatrième classe.

I suggest you print this off and show it to them.

 

[David]

SD,

Many thanks for your, as always, kind and helpful reply.  Again you have seen the nub of the problem and answered it clearly.  Although we are still in our early sixties, I was worried that the day may come when we did not have a valid driving licence, and would have to take the French test at age 70.

I had been advised by British neighbours that I should not change to a French licence as this would make it easier for the French to deduct points.  For me this argument does not apply as, although I might be caught for inadvertent speeding, or crossing a stop sign, I do not intend to do any driving which could result in points deductions.  So far, touch wood, I have been driving for over 40 years without ever receiving a speeding ticket or a parking ticket (or any other ticket for bad driving).  In any event I suspect that for a French resident, any points earned but not deducted due to having a British licence, would be kept on file to be deducted when they reach a certain level.

I will print off your post and take it to the Bressuire prefecture and see what happens.

One further question.  Would a French driving licence act as an identity card, thus avoiding the nessessity of carrying a British passport?

Many thanks,

David

[Sunday Driver]

David

You're certainly best off changing before you reach age 70 because unlike UK licences (which need renewal at 70), French licences currently last for life.  However, when the new EU wide standard photocard licence is adopted, they'll only be valid for 10 years, so it'll still mean a periodic trip back to your prefecture...

PS:  The office at Bressuire is only a sous-prefecture, so they don't actually deal with licences/carte grises and only send your papers on to the prefecture at Niort.  You'd be best dealing directly with Niort as they're the experts and should know the rules. Park in the big car park opposite the Donjon (keep), then walk to the right along the riverside as far as the traffic lights, turn left and the prefecture is just up the hill.  Licence enquiries is through a door to the left on the ground floor.

Regarding the use of a licence as ID, it will suffice for identity purposes.  You don't need to carry your passport.

 

 

[David]

SD,

Many thanks for that.  I am a bit concerned about going to Niort as I do not know the town at all.  My main worry is that from your description there may be some walking to do.  Although I can drive a car with an automatic gearbox, I can only walk about 20 metres with two crutches, or otherwise in a wheelchair, any steps very difficult.  Unfortunately my wife is no longer able to push me up hills in the wheelchair.  I also do not have a blue parking badge yet.  I applied for one with COTOREP last April, but I have heard nothing since.  My French neighbours have shown me their correspondence with COTOREP and it seems that their first application took nine months for a response.  Renewal every five years takes five months (Should I post this on another thread?).  As there is no immediate rush I might leave this until the spring as I hope to arrange to go back to UK for an operation this autumn. (I have had three unsuccessful operations in France).  Perhaps I will be able to walk then.  Here's hoping.  I have sussed out the Bressuire office, and I think I could manage to get there.

Questions about the new licence system that you may not know the answers to yet.  If you have to renew the new French (and all Europe) photocard licences every ten years, will this be a formality in France, or will this be subject to medical and driving checks?  If circumstances change, and I have to return to the UK, and become a UK resident while holding a French photocard licence, would I be able to renew and keep the French licence, or would I have to change back to a UK licence with all the medical and driving tests?  Would the UK accept a French licence as a basis to change back to a UK licence?  I suspect that they must, but what extra checks would the UK require that the French would not?

I realise that there may not yet be answers to these questions, but I would like to get the proceedure correct.  I suspect that there may be others reading this post with the same questions, and you, SD, seem to be the person with the definitive answers.

Many thanks, and keep posting,

David.

[Sunday Driver]

David

Your driving entitlements exist regardless of which country's licence you hold.

The renewal mechanisms for the new EU photocard licences have not been published yet, but there has been no indication of any onerous conditions being applied.  You will not have to take any driving tests (you are already qualified to drive) and no additional medicals other than those which currently exist locally for specific conditions.

Regarding your own particular situation, I'll send you a PM.

 

[Missy]

[quote user="Sunday Driver"]   The old green driving licence was a national licence only.  In pre-EU days, it was acceptable for use in France but not, for example, in Italy where it had to be accompanied by an international driving permit.

The green licence does not show the standard EU driving entitlement codes and was replaced by the pink EU version which is the one which is valid for all EU countries.   [/quote]

 

Well ! One learn something every day!...

I am still going round with my green paper licence along with the 3 points I collected some 10 years ago in Gloucester for not knowing the place and going at a red traffic light for 0 point 1 of a second!! I also have an international driving licence which I renew every so often for a paltry sum with the RAC...  Better get on fast to change to a pinky one!...

To David : If you don't know Niort. Look at the Calendrier des Postes it will have a map of the town. If you can't get a parking place near the Donjon as Sunday Driver suggested, park on the Place de la Brèche. Walk to the traffic lights and cross the road. You are in the street with the 2 dragons head (can't remember its name...) It goes into rue Victor Hugo, carry on until you arrive in front of the market hall. Bear left and walk up the hill. Follow SD's directions. From the car park not even 5 minutes to walk.

 

[David]

Thanks Missyesbut for the directions.  How steep is the hill after the market hall?

I really could not walk for what is to you a five minutes walk.  About 20 metres is the maximum.  I could use a wheelchair and push round the wheels myself, but I wonder if the hill might be too steep to self push a wheelchair up.

Thanks,

David

[Missy]

From the car park (Place de la Brèche) to the Market Hall it's all flat and approx 4 to 500 yards.

From the Market Hall to the Préfecture you would need someone to help push with the wheelchair. Possibly 2 to 300 yards.

Another way to get to it, is parking on Place de la République at the top of town and then going .... towards the Préfecture... can't quite remember... Sorry....

It's been a while that I haven't been to Niort itself. Though my parents live about 7kms from it.

Sure if you looked on 'Pages Jaunes' you would get a map.... or at the local library...

I know I'll phone my sister tomorrow as she works in the Préfecture but not in the office you want.... Couldn't be simpler! Bear with me for the weekend....

[maude]

We changed to French driving licenses,being "permanently" resident to avoid the problems associated with the address shown on the UK  EEC license which cannot be changed to the French address.Our close friend did have problems with the Gendarmerie after a routine stop,due to this anomaly and especially as we do not have the Carte de sejour issued anymore.The local S.Vendee sous prefecture would not issue me with the as reported letter of conformity.Now legal!    Maude

[Sunday Driver]

Just to restate the situation to anyone concerned about the validity of their old address on their UK licence.

The DVLA have confirmed that because their computer system does not allow for foreign addresses, the holder may continue to use the licence abroad showing the old UK address.

In France, if you move house, you are not even required to change your address on your identity card, passport or driving licence - it is optional only.  These documents are essentially for personal identity purposes only and do not provide a proof of address.

 

 

 

[Domp80]

Does a French driving license show the date you passed your test ie a valid from date on it ?

Only asking out of interest as I passed at 17 (one or two years ago now). When I went for French insurance, the software they use wouldn't allow them to put the 'valid from' date shown on my UK license because (presumeably) in France you have to be 18 to pass your test and so the software is programmed to see anything less as an error.

Doesnt really matter, but if I run into that situation when I change to a French license, my actual test date would then be lost for ever presumeably .....