Selling a car in France through eBay

[Tony F Dordogne]

I've asked a main dealer how much they would give me to buy my Citroen Saxo, 4 years old, recently ct'd and with only 13000 k on the clock.  The offer was pretty useless, even in part exchange, which doesn't seem to make too much difference at that garage.

There are loads of Saxos on eBay France and the prices are much higher than the price I've been offered, for cars which don't have my Saxo's spec, much higher kilometerage, much older and fewer doors.

Does anybody have experience, good or bad, of selling/buying through eBay and any sensible advice about the best way to go about it? I already have an eBay account, but never done anything motor wise through them.

[AnOther]

Hi Tony,

I've not sold a car on ebay.fr but I have sold a few in UK and just yesterday in fact I sold my MK1 Golf Cabriolet via that route, although the actual deal was struck privately, thus avoiding the final sale fee. This would have amounted to close on 4% which would have come on top of the initial insertion fee of about £37, and all for a car priced at under £2000, so it's not neccessarily a cheap affair!

Unless you are prepared to let it go for whatever is bid you should either set a reserve price of the very least you will accept or, and this is what I've tended to do, put it up with a higher "Buy it Now" price but also invite offers. If advertising with a reserve it helps to keep the idiots and speculators away if you say in your listing what your reserve price is. Very often you'll get a punter asking this anyway and I see no harm in stating it upfront as it saves everybody's time and effort if they know where the bar is set. I would also include a telephone number or an email address because sometimes punters will watch an auction without bidding to see what the price goes to and if it doesn't sell might want to make you an offer but once the auction has finished the "contact seller" option disappears and they would have no way of getting in touch with you.

If you do the BIN with Offers you'll still get the idiots who'll offer say £1000 for a £2500 car but you instantly decline them and they usually go away. If you do get a reasonable offer you can get a dialogue going with the potential buyer and maybe sell privately and save the fees as I did.

If you're thinking of this then it's important to state quite clearly in the advert that the car is advertised elsewhere and you reserve the right to remove it from sale at any time and without notice as this is your legitimate get out for doing a deal privately.

I'm sure I don't have to say this but whether you sell on ebay or privately you need to be a bit cautious if travelling to meet a buyer (or seller for that matter if the roles are reversed and you are the buyer) because there have been numerous cases, in UK at least, where it's turned into a mugging and people have lost their car or their cash or sometimes both.

[Onion van man]

[quote user="ErnieY"]If you're thinking of this then it's important to state quite clearly in the advert that the car is advertised elsewhere and you reserve the right to remove it from sale at any time and without notice as this is your legitimate get out for doing a deal privately.[/quote]

I put that on an item listing recently and Ebay removed my listing and sent me an email saying that you can't put that on listings as its classed as unfair terms & conditions...yadda yadda etc. Amazing how many people do put that and get away with it though.

Anyway, I thought your local garage had made you an offer for the Saxo Tony? Or am I thinking of someone else with a low Milage saxo on the forums? It is a petrol or diesel engined car ?

[AnOther]

I've sold around half a dozen cars on ebay and always put this without comment or complaint. I've put it on a few other items too where I thought neccessary. I think it's my right to sell my b****y car, or whatever, wherever and however I want to and I don't see why I should be tied to hanging about for 7 or 10 days on ebay before I can advertise elsewhere. I've already paid the upfront insertion fee so they've made money. 

In the past I've been involved in bidding for an item only to find it disappear without notice or warning which is highly infuriating I can tell you, so putting this is, IMHO, a courtesy.

On one occasion I had asked a seller if he would accept an offer to buy the item immediately but he declined saying he wanted to let the auction run, fair enough, yet a day or 2 later he canceled the auction to sell to someone else. I had an exchange of emails with him about it and ultimately he was the loser because had the auction run it's course I would have been prepared to pay considerably more than he eventually got for it!

[Russethouse]

But ErnieY you know the T&C when you list ! If you don't want to pay their fees why don't you just use another method to sell your car ?

 

 

[AnOther]

Point taken RH however, apart from the fact that probably less than 1% of users have ever read the T&C's, me included, (yeah yeah yeah, no excuse), to prohibit a seller from selling his goods elsewhere simply because they are also advertised on ebay is unfair terms and conditions.

Ignoring for the moment the issue of going outside ebay for the avoidence of the final price fees, there are any number of commercial traders advertising cars on ebay, many of whom doubtless also advertise elsewhere, so is it reasonable or realistic to expect them to say to a prospective purchaser who has arrived other than via ebay, "sorry, I can't sell you this car until the ebay auction has run it's course", I think not.

[Russethouse]

Well actually ErnieY I do not think it is *that* unreasonable, in fact I used to eBay- OK they were 'collectables' but items were most certainly not for sale in the shop while they were on eBay,( I used to rent space in antique shops and do fairs) One or the other.     I know other people have put this condition in and got away with it.....but avoiding fees? Tut tut !

[AnOther]

Let's agree that it's debatable point shall we and leave it at that.

I'm certainly not losing any sleep over it [;-)]

[Tony F Dordogne]

No OVM, I've had two offers but comparing prices to private sales, they appear ok but are in fact very low - older, less spec, much higher km readings are offered and selling for at least 1500 euros more than the book prices.

Just wondered about eBay as a sales method, that's all.

[Iceni]

[quote user="Tony F Dordogne"]

............... selling for at least 1500 euros more than the book prices.

[/quote]

Tony, do you mean asking prices or definite money in the hand sold for prices ?

John

not

[AnOther]

Tony, whatever you decide it's worth remembering that there is a strong market in UK for small LHD cars, both for holiday homers and expats, and what few cars do come up seem to attract plenty of attention and consequently fetch good prices so ebay or not, that might be a good avenue to explore.

I've PM'd you BTW

Ernie

[nomoss]

[quote user="ErnieY"]

Hi Tony,

I've not sold a car on ebay.fr but I have sold a few in UK and just yesterday in fact I sold my MK1 Golf Cabriolet via that route, although the actual deal was struck privately, thus avoiding the final sale fee. This would have amounted to close on 4% which would have come on top of the initial insertion fee of about £37, and all for a car priced at under £2000, so it's not neccessarily a cheap affair!

 

[/quote]

 

Rubbish!

eBay Motors Fees

View Fees for: eBay.co.uk | eBay Motors | Classified Ad | eBay Shops | PayPal

Basic Fees

You pay only an Insertion Fee and a Final Value Fee to list a vehicle on eBay Motors. If the item sells, you are also charged a Final Value Fee. There is no additional fee charged after the listing has ended. eBay Motors vehicle listings are those within the Cars, Commercial Vehicles, Motorcycles & Scooters, Caravans and Classic Cars categories.

Insertion Fee
Format	Single Item Listing	Multiple Item Listing
Auction Style	£8.00	£8.00
Buy It Now Only	£8.00	£8.00  multiplied by the number of Vehicles listed.
Classified Ad	£12.99	N/A

Final Value Fee
Closing Price	Final Value Fee
£0.01 - £1,699.99	£17.00
£1,700.00 - £2,999.99	1.00%
£3,000.00 and above	£30.00
Classified Ad	No Final Value Fee applies

Note: Parts and Accessories Insertion Fees are the same as eBay.co.uk Insertion Fees.

Optional Feature Fees

You can choose to add optional features to increase the chance of selling your item.

[AnOther]

Thanks for your subtle opener nomoss !

Hands up, I did make a mistake on the costs (not deliberate) but a smack round the back of the head with a lump of 2x4 seems a tad OTT, without so much as a smiley to soften it either, owwwww [blink][blink]

[nomoss]

Subtle opener mainly due to my dislike of people who cheat on eBay rules which they agreed to, also giving up the protection offered by dealing correctly on eBay to save £30 or less.

We used to sell boats on commission, and gave it up partly because of such dishonesty, sometimes had to go to great lengths to keep buyers and sellers apart so they didn't sneak off and make a private deal.  We had contracts, of course, but not really worth the cost and effort to enforce them in the long run.

[AnOther]

Well no mistaking where you stand then nomoos, thanks for the heads up...[;-)]

Hardly my fault though is it that you have some bitter personal axe to grind.

I suppose that you will have never bent a rule or even contemplated such a dastardly deed, or maybe you just never had an expensive boat to sell yourself ?

That's all rhetorical by the way so no need to answer, just remember we're not talking the law here.

Oh, and thanks too for the concern but I think I've been around the block enough times to decide for myself whether I need so called "protection" or not.

If you really believe that ebay, AKA Paypal, are concerned about me and deserve to be held up as unimpeachable paragons of virtue and integrity I suggest you spend 5 minutes on www.paypalsucks.com

Have a nice day now [8-|]

Ernie

 

 

 

[AnOther]

Ironically I just found this in my ebay messages [:D]

Quote

"Dear Ernie,

We're writing to tell you about an important announcement we've made concerning eBay policies and standards for seller performance. eBay is taking steps to protect the interests of good sellers like you and the consumer's overall experience on eBay.

First of all, we assure you that your current level of performance exceeds the standards. Congratulations and thank you.

Sellers are expected to perform in a manner resulting in a consistently high level of buyer satisfaction. If, over a 90-day period, a seller's interactions with buyers result in greater than a 5% level of buyer dissatisfaction as evidenced by negative/neutral feedback and/or Item Not Received complaints, that seller will be considered in violation of eBay's Seller Non-Performance policy. Note we're currently not including Detailed Seller Ratings in the enforcement of this policy since they're so new to the marketplace.

As a seller in good standing, you're well aware that buyer satisfaction is vital to your continued success -- and the continued success of eBay. Thank you for your solid track record and continued commitment to good customer service. We're confident that enforcing this policy will go a long way to keeping eBay a great place to buy and sell for you and for all our users.

Sincerely,

eBay Trust & Safety"

Ahh, how sweet of them to write to me personally like that.....[:D]

[LEO]

[quote user="ErnieY"]

Thanks for your subtle opener nomoss !

Hands up, I did make a mistake on the costs (not deliberate) but a smack round the back of the head with a lump of 2x4 seems a tad OTT, without so much as a smiley to soften it either, owwwww [blink][blink]

[/quote]

At least, Ernie  they havent needlessly thumped you on the back of the head,

nor indeed have the dispayed any........   a...nomoss ..ity 

[Tony F Dordogne]

Thanks for all the feedback folks - can't be doing with all this eBay stuff, so going to advertise it locally first to see what response I get as the car seems to be popular with new drivers.

Thanks for the tips Ernie Y, will respond to your email when I get sorted later today.

[Llwyncelyn]

ErnieY absolutely agree that this matter should be put to rest.

However legally (and yes I am in the law) the terms and conditions are there for you to read and not reading is no defence.

Their conditions as to restricting you in selling elsewhere and for the period of the listing is in the eyes of the law fair and The Unfair Terms and Conditions (Contracts) Act would not give you support.  By way of example say someone sold a business to a major company.  That company restricted you in the contract to setting up a similar business within a 100 miles radius and for the next thirty years.  That would be unfair and struck out.  However 25 miles and five years that would be fair (perhaps)  I know a major Plc who bought a business and employed a huge City law firm.  Deal no competition from the major shareholder for five years.  No problem.   They forgot about the son's of the major shareholder.  Imagine what happened?

Their terms include of course the listing fee plus of course the final fee.

Fact and in let us say avoiding that is strictly let us say illegal but I am sure Ebay would not chase you its not worth it.  However in saying that the decision to bypass the contract based upon that fact alone is not in my opinion justification for it. 

Perhaps if you wish to change things set up your own site in competition.  It does cost hence the need for Ebay to get revenue.

I agree a mute point and one that will never be tested.

Final point I once tried to sell my collection of wine on Ebay in the UK they withdrew it for the rules are different in the UK.  Look at the Ebay site in France..

Some would differ and take the view that a major corporation 'can afford it.'  Others would not.

 

[AnOther]

Quite happy to put it to bed however a couple of final points.

My original post was in response to OVM who said his ad had been pulled however ebay have an option to end listings early.

http://pages.ebay.com/help/sell/motors-end-early.html

and one of the legitimate reasons is that the item is no longer for sale which you can interpret as you wish !

http://pages.ebay.com/help/sell/end_early.html

This would appear to be somewhat contradictory if what is really little more than a courtesy statement saying "Advertised elsewhere etc." is cited as justification for pulling an ad.

In the specific instance of my car sale, although there was a Buy it Now price plus an invitation to Offers, for whatever reasons the buyer declined to make a formal offer on ebay and initiated direct contact. Had she not then I would have let it go through in the normal way.

Anyway, subject is now closed as far a I'm concerned [:)]