Insurance Companies Toughening Up

[AnOther]

I've just been talking to my insurance broker and the topic of UK plates came up.

According to him the insurance industry is beginning to toughen up on the rogue companies who are providing ongoing cover for UK registered vehicles and propose enforcing time limits, typically 3 or maybe 6 month's for "difficult" cases, after which, if the vehicle still hasn't been re-registered, their cover will be cancelled.

Hopefully then the clock is finally ticking for the wrigglers  [:D]

[Ron Avery]

and what about those who don't bother with insurance or a CT for the few weeks that they are over here?   Must be holiday home visit time or they have cleared out another airport car park, because I saw three old K reg brit plate vans/cars en route to Montauban the other day,  all had well out of date tax discs no later than 2003 and no sign of a French CT or insurance disc, its those cars that need clamping down on.

[Bob T]

[quote user="ErnieY"]

According to him the insurance industry is beginning to toughen up on the rogue companies who are providing ongoing cover for UK registered vehicles and propose enforcing time limits, typically 3 or maybe 6 month's for "difficult" cases, after which, if the vehicle still hasn't been re-registered, their cover will be cancelled.

[/quote]

I am surprised, the "rogue companies" are not breaking any laws, they are just selling something. It is up to the individual to make sure that the vehicle is imported before the 6 months are up.

[Bugsy]

Long overdue.

I know two families who have both lived here for a number of years and are still running UK plated vehicles. I have now given up trying to explain the rules to them. [:@]

I will really enjoy the day I'm able to say "Well I'd did try to tell you"

 

[Sunday Driver]

Not another new thread on this subject..... [:(]

I recall when this chestnut first raised its ugly head a couple of years ago, I found an EU paper on cross border migration of vehicles (don't ask me to find it again, though).

The EU acknowledge that there are significant obstacles to people moving freely to other countries with their vehicles and there are consultations taking place with a view to improving the situation.  One well-known obstacle was the requirement to obtain individual country type approval for cars before you could register them abroad.  The introduction of EU Whole Vehicle Type Approval in 1998 removed this obstacle for cars manufactured since then. 

Another current obstacle is insurance - the legal/risk situation is complex, but in simple terms, for a domestic insurer to offer cover to a foreign registered vehicle, they have to have established a representative presence in that vehicle's country of registration.  That's why the UK insurers won't cover you once you've moved to France.

Under the current regulations, vehicles of UK origin which have been legally exported from the UK and legally imported into France with import duty/VAT certificates are no longer foreign registered, so the above restrictions do not apply and French domestic insurers may issue cover.

Policies which offer cover for non-imported UK registered vehicles are likely to be in breach of the regulations and therefore may be unenforceable contracts - I suspect that's the reason why the insurers are tightening up.

Any chance we can put this one to bed.....[;-)]

 

 

[Will]

I also found an EU document a year or so back - I came across it almost by accident, and like SD's please don't ask me to find it again. But what it said was that all vehicles should be registered and insured in the country in which they are normally kept. That seems an eminently simple and sensible policy, in the absence of any universal European registration system, and certainly allows for cross-border travel etc.

Sorry SD, it will never go to bed, as there are so many awkward sods who think that they have found reasons why the individual countries' laws and equivalent EU guidelines might not apply to them. If not here, they can be found on AngloInfo and various other discussion places. Misleading newspaper articles don't help either.

[Sunday Driver]

"......they can be found on AngloInfo...."

Please - let's not go there!  [:P]

 

[AnOther]

A hoary old chestnut for sure SD but this little snippet was interesting news to me and so I thought I'd share it.

It's wasn't meant to revive the debate which I thing we are all too aware has been done to death.

Frankly I doubt it will ever be permanantly "put to bed" but of course noone is obliged to respond or even read anymore about it if they don't want to [;-)]

PS: Maybe an article in Con*******s saying that they are definately coming to get you in 1 month would provoke mass compliance [6]

[Sunday Driver]

"It's wasn't meant to revive the debate....."

Come on, Ernie - how long have you posting here?   [;-)]

 

[Nick Trollope]

[quote user="Sunday Driver"]

"......they can be found on AngloInfo...."

Please - let's not go there!  [:P]

 

[/quote]

But you do all the time SD!

[Bugsy]

[quote user="Nick Trollope"][quote user="Sunday Driver"]

"......they can be found on AngloInfo...."

Please - let's not go there!  [:P]

 

[/quote]

But you do all the time SD!

[/quote]

Nick, I think you'll find that the 'past tense' is now more appropriate..............[:)]

[Georgina]

 

Yesterday I was stopped by the Gendarmes doing their routine checks.[blink] I gave them all the documents (I thought) until I got home and found the carte gris in another place, I guess they were not that bothered to check properly as I was not French, they liked the dog though.  Lucky for me I could have been done on not having my driving licence on me too. They could have added some money to their coffers but they were really nice, contrary to other reports I have heard.

Georgina

PS my point obviously being that they probably don't even check foreign cars properly too

[Moulin85]

Surly in this day and age the EU should be able to agree on a common registration system for all vehicles. It’s not rocket science to agree common standards for the CT and the basic ‘Third Party’ part of your insurance, which would give unrestricted cover all across the EU.

It’s not only illegal UK ‘ex-pat’ vehicles that are un-road worthy and un-insured but also the majority of those registered in ex eastern block countries that have been flooding Western Europe for the last couple of years!

[Sunday Driver]

It's not a common registration system that's needed.  The thrust of the EU initiative is to simplify the re-registration process when moving to a new country - far easier and cheaper than having 27 countries investing millions of pounds/euros in IT changes just to accommodate a new pan European registration system.  That would really get the 'antis' howling...

The MOT/CT process is already well on the way to standardisation.  For example, the UK government's policy of 'gold plating' (ie, annual tests instead of bi-annual) is under review and there is a clear political appetite to fall in line with EU test frequency recommendations.  In terms of insurance, exisiting EU regulations already make it compulsory for insurers to provide unrestricted pan European third party cover.

Finally, I'm not sure about your statement that the majority of vehicles registered in ex eastern european block countries are unroadworthy and uninsured.  What statistical basis are you using?

 

 

 

[cooperlola]

[quote user="Sunday Driver"]

What statistical basis are you using?

[/quote]Very funny, SD! You mean people have proper evidence for these kinds of statements?[:D][Www]

[mint]

Yes, SD, not everyone has your orderly, statistical mind; therefore you have to make allowances for us lesser mortals.  What's that joke about, "I have made up my mind, now please don't go confusing me with the facts"?

[Moulin85]

Hi SD,

 

In the 21^st Century people will move around Europe more and more for work, we see this already, this may mean relocating every few months or maybe every couple of years, and it is essential the EU legislature keep ahead of this trend. It is totally impractical to re-register a vehicle every time you change country.

 

You are correct when you say ‘existing EU regulations already make it compulsory for insurers to provide unrestricted pan European third party cover’ but this is only the level of cover and in most cases it is only valid for 90days! After that some policies will cover you for an additional period by one off special arrangement but most don’t want to know at all. What I am saying is this level of cover should be for the duration of the policy, if companies want to time limit add-ons, such as comprehensive cover, that’s fine.

 

Regarding ex eastern block registered vehicles I base this on personal experience. I work with several hundred eastern Europeans many of who are driving cars still registered ‘at home’ but have not taken them been back there for several years, so how can there paperwork be up to date? A quick glance at general condition is a fair indicator of roadworthiness and if you bring the subject up they suddenly don’t speak the language! Even those who do keep there cars legal ‘at home’ appear to have no idea if there are any restrictions on there use abroad.

[Sunday Driver]

Moulin 85

There are already provisions within the regulations to accommodate short term working in other member states.  Agreed, the present situation does present obstacles to the more permanent movement of vehicles within the EU - that's why they are reviewing the situation.  If you could obtain an immediate new registration document for your car by post, then the impracticalities would be removed at a stroke.

Compulsory pan European third party cover is not time restricted - by law, it is valid for the life of a policy.  I think you may be confusing the '90 days' which is usually the insurers' time limit for their 'own vehicle' comprehensive cover which gives them the opportunity to charge you extra for an extension.

Regarding your comprehensive technical examination of your eastern European work colleages' vehicles, I can't really say any more.....

 

[allanb]

[quote user="Moulin85"]You are correct when you say ‘existing EU regulations already make it compulsory for insurers to provide unrestricted pan European third party cover’ but this is only the level of cover and in most cases it is only valid for 90days! After that some policies will cover you for an additional period by one off special arrangement ...

[/quote]

I've posted the following statement before, but since the misunderstanding persists, I'll take the risk of posting it again.  (It isn't a crime to plagiarise yourself, is it?)

There's a basic fact about motor insurance in a certain group of countries (all the EU members, plus many others).  If you have a valid motor insurance policy issued by an approved insurer in one country, and you take your car temporarily to another country, you automatically have the third-party liability insurance required by law in the country you are visiting, even if the amounts are different from those in your home country. 

This is the result of an international treaty that has been in effect for more than 50 years, so it's older than the EU.  Your insurer is [u]required[/u] to provide this cover - you don't have to do anything.  (You should carry a green card as evidence that you have insurance, but that's another subject.  The insurance exists, with or without the green card.)

Some insurers put a time limit on cover for loss, damage, etc, and may charge extra for extending it.  But the third-party cover is automatic for the entire period of the policy.

[Moulin85]

I stand totally corrected, SD and allanb are both correct.

 

My policy document has never been updated by my insurance company but on checking my daughter’s new policy, with the same company, the Third Party time limit has been removed.

Interestingly the free 7day full cover extension, provided they were notified of dates, has also gone!

[bedders]

SD wrote:

Regarding your comprehensive technical examination of your eastern European work colleages' vehicles, I can't really say any more.....

Since when did a glance at the bald tyres of a beaten up, Latvian registered, BMW constitute a

"comprehensive technical examination" None is needed to conclude its illegality.

[Sunday Driver]

Agreed, but I suspect a little more is required in order to conclude the illegality of several hundred work colleague cars, let alone "the majority of those registered in ex eastern block countries that have been flooding Western Europe for the last couple of years".....[;-)]

 

[woolybanana]

You mean the stolen ones coming back?

[Moulin85]

Hi there SD, you must be a politician!

 

Let me put you straight on your last post, what I actually said was:

‘I work with several hundred eastern Europeans many of who are driving cars still registered ‘at home’ but have not taken them been back there for several years, so how can there paperwork be up to date?

 

This is somewhat different to:

‘illegality of several hundred work colleague cars’

 

Like the British in France the vast majority of eastern Europeans are driving perfectly legal locally registered vehicles, but there is a hard core who are not. These people rely on the fact that the local police don’t speak, much less read, there language so are generally reluctant to pull them over unless they have committed a serious offence. Unlike the majority of British ex-pats who have property and ties in the community most eastern European labour is transient. We’ve had a couple of instances where people have been involved in accidents then just disappeared!