Utility Bills

[Marjorie<EM><STRONG>Marjorie<STRONG><EM>]

We're planning on buying a house in the Charente and permanently moving into it in a couple of years, during which time we will decorate/furnish etc it and use it for holidays.

What utility bills will need to be paid apart from electric, house insurance, water - rates (does anyone know roughly what they might be for a small house in a village?).   I think the best way for us to pay would be via the bank account in France (once it's opened!).

Many thanks

Marjorie

 

[Will]

There are enormous variations in local taxes, you can try asking somebody else with a similar house in the same commune, but that is no guarantee of an accurate estimate, best to ask when you are considering buying a place what the charges are.

Cheques, TIP (transfer) or prélèvement (direct debit) from a French bank account are the only sensible ways to pay such bills in France.

[Lizzie15]

Good luck Marjorie.It sounds as though you already have everything sorted in your mind.As Will says there is a huge variety in amounts of taxes.Some people pay only a small amount eg a couple of hundred pounds for both taxe fonciere and habitation but others pay many times more than that.Along with the water charges we now get some sort of sewage disposal charge added which is quite hefty.My water bill was huge this time ( a leak I think)-723 euros before tax but added on was 114 euros for water pollution "organismes publics".Had a bit of a chuckle when I read that as I didn't see the "n" in the middle of it!!LOL   .The water company were very good though as they didn't send the bill immediately,they asked us to check if we thought there was a mistake first as the bill was so large!That's when we discovered a leak! 

 

[Val_2]

You forgot the telephone. Both this and electricity bills come every two months for residents so you should be prepared for those. Taxes d'habitation and foncières come in October/November and payable by end of December. This year the TV licence will also start to be included and if you have anything from computer access to television to just an old UK TV and video machine you must have a licence. Refuse collection is included in your main taxes and water charges come every six months. All the utilities except the phone people must have access at least once per year to verify your meter. Another expense will be your health cover and mutuelle and vehicle insurance.

[Teamedup]

Our refuse collection is included in our taxe fonciere bill.

[BJSLIV]

Cheques, TIP (transfer) or prélèvement (direct debit) from a French bank account are the only sensible ways to pay such bills in France.

The really really sensible way to pay must be by prélèvement, especially while you are still living in the UK. No risk of things getting lost in the post, no 42p stamp to buy to send off the cheque or the TIP every time. You can usually pay all the bills this way, though some water companies and Mairie's are cannot handle the rubbish and water charges this way.

 

Edit:  Plus I forgot it also avoids the risk of penalties for late payment.

[Dick Smith]

Good advice - I pay everything except for EDF by prelevement, and guess what - the latest cheque has gone missing, so hassle and phone calls to sort it all out. My own fault, should have set it up.

[Marjorie<EM><STRONG>Marjorie<STRONG><EM>]

 Thanks everyone for your prompt replies!  I hadn't forgotten the telephone costs, health cover or car insurance, as I am more concerned at the moment for the time whilst we are going to and from UK and what bills we should expect to pay for the French home. 

Forgotten the TV licence tho - where do we apply for that?

Marjorie

[Will]

The TV licence is included with taxe d'habitation, as Val_2 indicated, for 2005 onwards.

Some communes make an additional charge for dealing with rubbish. We don't pay any extra where we live but I'm looking at a bill for another commune nearby, 87€ for a maison secondaire for the year. This figure will vary greatly though.

[Gyn_Paul]

Marjorie, If you haven't currently got a French bank a/c or are thinking about getting one, I would advise not only choosing one which is local to where your house is, but also ensuring you can access your account balance on your computer back in the UK. There's something very reassuring about being able to check you have actually GOT some money in the account when you know there's going to be all these prelevements wizzing out of it!

p

[Tony KayIts only spilt milk, the cat will have it.....]

Hi All

I think it would be really useful to have as comprehensive a list as is possible with regards to 'What you can expect to pay out' for people (such as myself) who are thinking of moving to France, or have just moved there.

 

I gather from the replies here that charges for certain things will depend on location, usage and so on. But that won't apply to everything obviously.

 

it would be very useful to have access to the sort of bills (even ball park figures) that will be payable, whether they be monthly, quarterly, or what have you.

Anyone willing to put such a list together on here?

 

 

[Ron Avery]

[quote]Hi All I think it would be really useful to have as comprehensive a list as is possible with regards to 'What you can expect to pay out' for people (such as myself) who are thinking of moving to Fran...[/quote]

You could not produce such a list for the UK so why do think that one can be done for France?

You say "I gather from the replies here that charges for certain things will depend on location, usage and so on. But that won't apply to everything obviously.

No. not for certain things, for everything.  I cannot think of a single item that is fixed across France.

You can list the things that HAVE to be paid and most of these are the same as in the UK except for council tax read Taxe d'habitaion and Taxe Fonciere and you will pay bank charges.  All the taxes and charges in France are like in the UK based on consumption, where you live and the size of property.  Even the car registration depends on the size of your car.

You could have a 100 people tell you how much they pay in charges and you would be none the wiser.

[Teamedup]

'Exept' the taxes foncieres and habitation? hope you aren't implying that french ones are cheaper?  Ours are expensive and there are a lot of householders in France who will pay as much as the UK and even more than the UK here. It really will depend where someone lives.

There are ways of getting around bank charges, that is a choice.

Our water is expensive too although we pay for assainissement in spite of us having a fosse septique, which I suppose is normal as our grey water and the water from the fosse goes into the drains. And we've been warned to expect another big increase.

 

[Ron Avery]

[quote]'Exept' the taxes foncieres and habitation? hope you aren't implying that french ones are cheaper? Ours are expensive and there are a lot of householders in France who will pay as much as the UK and ...[/quote]

'Except' the taxes foncieres and habitation? hope you aren't implying that french ones are cheaper?

TU  I was not implying any sort of cost comparison, in fact very much the opposite I was just listing the items.

Your post has just reinforced my point that any listing of "I pay........ Would be totally useless information to the original poster

  

[Val_2]

Absolutely impossible to give exact figures for bills in France. Every single commune has the power to increase it's charges to what they think fit to do,there is no set figure by the government, which gives a great deal of difference between those living in a three house hamlet and a suburban area of a larger town. There are also different charges for the utilities regarding residents and holiday home owners who only use very little and do not have nuit/jour tarifs on electricity for instance. If you really really wish to know what you will be paying in France, I would compare like for like with the UK and if its cheaper, well,you won't be so worried because here you have other items like health insurance to pay out for which you aren't used to paying for in the UK.

[Will]

I fully echo what Val_2 says. About the only 'standard' item I can think of is the France Telecom line rental of 13.99€ per month. You can't even quote a common standing charge for electricity, that depends on your tariff option and the maximum supply current.

[Tony KayIts only spilt milk, the cat will have it.....]

I think the point was missed here:

 

I meant a list of things you can expect to pay, not how much they would be unless standard items such as TV licence.

But more importantly, the general charges that ALL will pay, although at different rates.

 

For example;

 

Tax Fonciere (and what it is)

Tax d'habitation (what it is and how the amount payable is determined)

Do you pay road tax for example? I've heard not, but I don't know for sure.

 

And Ron, why do you think that such a list could not be put together for the UK?

I beg to differ, anyone coming from abroad to live in the UK could be informed by trhe average householder what charges and costs they are likely to meet.

 

 

[Will]

OK, here's a start, and I'm assuming for now that you have a holiday home - when you live full time there are income taxes, social charges and (optional) medical insurance to consider - when you work here there are yet more charges.

These are things which either you cannot avoid or are pretty much essential and/or the most realistic option for French life.

* Local taxes (taxe foncière - basic tax on buildings and land; taxe d'habitation - tax on habitable accommodation, based on a notional rental value a bit like the old English rates system; and - not in all communes - ordures menagères [dealing with rubbish]).

TV licence - collected with taxe d'habitation.

* Energy - electricity (standing charge plus unit charges); gas (likewise for mains gas, for tank gas tank rental and refill charges).

* Water - standing charge plus metered charge (usually includes sewerage charge)

* Telephone - line rental plus call charges.

* Insurance - house (normally includes buildings, contents, public liability).

* Bank - Charge for card, plus many accounts have monthly fee.

You did mention road tax, so although applicable to residents rather than second home owners, if you have a vehicle registered in France you pay for:

* Insurance

* Controle Technique (equivalent to MoT, every two years)

* Carte Grise (one-off charge for registration document), no road tax for private vehicles.

Quite frankly, I think a list like that is pretty meaningless as it raises more questions than it answers, but I hope it provides some of what you want.

I am sure others will think of things to add or will want to enlarge on certain points.

[Monika]

[quote]The TV licence is included with taxe d'habitation , as Val_2 indicated, for 2005 onwards. Some communes make an additional charge for dealing with rubbish. We don't pay any extra where we live but I...[/quote]

We in 61 pay for our refuse collection seperately i.e. exactly 100 Euros.

For Tax d'habitation we pay 69 Euros.

Tax Fonciere 69 Euros.

Insurance 140 Euros.

 

Monika

[Ron Avery]

This post by monika just emphasises the point made in previous posts particularly by VAL2 that such a listing of charges is impossible, a friend of mine in the Tarn et Garonne pays 900€ taxe d'habitation and I pay nothing

 

Tony if you wanted average household figures you should have asked for them, you would still have got the same answer,  As for the UK, tell me the average council tax for London and then what use that figure would be to me as a guide if I was wanting to move to say Wandsworth or Islington.

[Tony KayIts only spilt milk, the cat will have it.....]

Maybe I should have phrased the question differently.

 

What would be useful would be a guide to what bills/charges/expenses,  new arrivals/residents in France will encounter, other than the more obvious electric, gas (if you have it) water rates, and so on.

 

And Ron, if I'd wanted average household figures, I WOULD have asked for them. I'm just not clear on why you insist on replying when you clearly have nothing to contribute.

This sort of thing is what constitutes research by people looking to buy in France, and frankly your attitude in assuming that either all questions and requests are stupid, or obvious, is less than helpful, and your replies bordering on downright rude.

 

[Teamedup]

I don't understand what you want then. I don't understand why you said that RA was wrong in posting, his post echoed my own thoughts. And apart from saying that costs are hard to give, there have, never the less, been many useful generalities given already.

If you have a question that can be answered then ask away. The trouble is that I don't know what you don't know.

[Tony KayIts only spilt milk, the cat will have it.....]

maybe it's just my poor English as I don't recall saying that Ron was wrong in posting.

I posted an example of the sort of thing that I meant:

 

For example;

 

Tax Fonciere (and what it is)

Tax d'habitation (what it is and how the amount payable is determined)

Do you pay road tax for example? I've heard not, but I don't know for sure.

I accept that it might just be me, but all replies just seem to assume that I'm actually asking a different question, and overlooking what was actually asked!

But it's fine, I have found the information that I required. Thanks to those who tried.

[Ron Avery]

And Ron, if I'd wanted average household figures, I WOULD have asked for them. I'm just not clear on why you insist on replying when you clearly have nothing to contribute

 

Errmmm Tony, If you look at what you posted I think you raised average households not me.

You got your answer that there are no standard charges in France from people other than me, my reply was not rude it was factual and correct and the answer to the original question. If you want rude you will get it if you continue posting similar replies to those seeking to help you

[Tony KayIts only spilt milk, the cat will have it.....]

I give up. Even with the opportunity to read the posts again Ron, you still miss the point.

You say 'Tax D'habitation' as though every one knows what it is. The same is true for Tax fonciere.

There must be even more examples.

Not how much. But what the charges are that people can expect to pay, ie, what they are called, and more importantly perhaps, what type of charge they are.