am I missing anything ?

[craigw]

hi all, great site by the way.

 

We have been looking for a house in france for a couple of years (at the same time as selling a property in UK, this has finally sold).

I have trawled latitudes, francophiles and many others & last year I found a 4 bed cottage in perigrd vert & we went to see it.

At the time our sale fell through so we couldnt proceed.

I have now gone back to the owner & we have agreed a deal at more or less the same price as a year ago (it seemed/seems like a good price compared to what else I have seen)

The house is less than 4 years old, we have an english speaking notaire (who is also a friend of & acting for the owner, is this a problem ?)

Finances are pretty much in place but my long term girlfriend & I arent married.

I suppose my questions are,

-am I missing anythuing obvious?

-do I also need a solicitor

-do I need a survey on a 4 year old house (all looks good but I am no expert!)

All help very much appreciated, I can think of nothing else.

 

 

 

[Alexis]

We don't have surveys here.  The money is lent to you not to the house.  If you wanted to buy a ruin, as long as you could cough up each month, then that is ok.  Courage!

The Notaire acts for both parties in the transaction but if you feel you would like another, you can use one.

You will have to go into the non-marriage bit more carefully.  Other people will know better than me as I was either single or married when I bought....never living over the brush

[Kayjay<P> <P><P>"Passer sa vie à lutter contre la connerie est le meilleur procédé pour mourir dépuisement."<P>]

No, no and no!

You ought to talk about how you are intending to buy the place, of course, since if anything happens to one of you then the other could end up in the doo-doo re inheritance.  Ask the notaire about the pros and cons of buying "en tontine" in your circumstances.

Good luck!

[derf]

 have now gone back to the owner & we have agreed a deal at more or less the same price as a year ago (it seemed/seems like a good price compared to what else I have seen)

Did you find the property privately last year? because if you went through an agent and have not used them to do the sale this time, they will come back to you for their money, just a thought.

[Teamedup]

I wouldn't be here and unmarried. Finances may well not be quite in the place  you  imagined if you come here unmarried and one of you dies. Inheritance is hard enough to sort out when married, unmarried and the couple is just classed as two unrelated people and even if you managed to leave money to the other, the tax free allowance is next to nothing, around £1000 and then 60% on the rest, which is rather a lot isn't it.  And if you did  nothing about this then nothing would pass other than to members of your own family, ie your own children, siblings, parents etc etc.

 

So yes, think carefully about this. I realise tontine has been mentioned and that works for passing a property of a low value ie 75k euros, but then the taxes would again be very hefty if you were unmarried.

 

So get legal advice.

 

I agree watch out about the immoblier wanting payment too.

No, surveys are not usually done.

 

 

[Hagar]

[quote]hi all, great site by the way. We have been looking for a house in france for a couple of years (at the same time as selling a property in UK, this has finally sold). I have trawled latitudes, fr...[/quote]

I would suggest you consider consulting a separate notaire.

On the survey - ask yourself if you would be happy buying a house in the UK without a survey (even if not required by a mortgage lender). Have a look at these threads -

 http://forums.livingfrance.com/shwmessage.aspx?forumid=288&messageid=108665#bm108409

http://www.totalfrance.com/france/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7202&highlight=adia

Alexis - when you say "We don't have surveys here" - I assume you mean you yourself and your immediate acquaintences . It is certainly not my experience in France that you buy a house without a survey first.

rgds

Hagar

 

[Ron Avery]

" It is certainly not my experience in France that you buy a house without a survey first"

Well it was mine. We were told that surveys were not the norm in France and there was nobody really around locally who was qualified to do one, but an architect could look at the place and give a price for the rebuilding.

The valuation survey in the UK is to give comfort to the lender that they will get their money back on the house should you default, so in that sense Alexis is absolutely right that "We don't have surveys here"!  Of course now there are lead, termite and asbestos surveys to be done, but the valuation or structural survey is rarely carried out by the French.  Of course for the Brits old habits die hard and if you are buying a newish house, you may want a survey and you can engage an architect to do that, surveyors do not seem that plentiful here maybe due to the lack of work   But most of us knew that the pile of stones we were buying was in fact a pile of stones

[Hagar]

Hi Ron

"We were told that surveys were not the norm in France" - When we were buying we were told the same thing a number of times - but only ever by ex-pats, ex-pat vendors or agents.

The french agent and the notaire we used thought a survey was perfectly normal and the agent arrranged for the architect (www.adia.org) to carry it out before we signed the compromis.

The standard surveys that are available through ADIA's architects are remarkably similar to those you would expect an engish "surveyor" to provide. (with the exception of the "valuation survey" which I think is a particularly british thing - and a complete con IMO).

 I'm sure somebody will correct me if I am wrong but I don't think "surveyors" are recognised as a separate profession in france i.e surveyors are not the norm in France - surveys are quite common.

rgds

Hagar

 

[Ron Avery]

Hi Hagar

Conversely we were told "surveys were not the norm in France" by a French agent and Notaire.

I think you are right, in France for surveyor read architect, but can you trust an architect 100%?  Many of them project manage restorations and rebuilds as their main occupation, so would you really get an objective survey from someone who may have an interest in finding fault where none exists?

I also wonder if you would have grounds for recompense in France as you do in the UK if  an architect/surveyor did a survey and missed something.

[Alexis]

Never, ever had a survey done.  You are right Ron, I could recognise they needed "a bit of work".  The first house I bought was over 16 years ago and the last was last year.  I never even thought about it. 

Reading this forum and having lived here for ages, I have seen lots of queries about surveys.  It is what we are used to.  Perhaps it reassures us.

Perhaps it didn't exsist before the invasion (recent) started?

I don't know.

 

[P]

Ron is correct that the vast majority of surveys carried out in the UK are for the lenders benefit - until recently this was priviledged information and not shown to the purchaser - there will also be on offer far more detailed surveys, which people do take when buying mainly older properties.

The lenders survey is normally concerned with providing a valuation, confirming that the property exists and that there a no major visible defects.

Some people do use the lenders survey to renegotiate the price where defects are found but the fuller survey can assist to a greater extent. Failing that it does give a better knowledge of any forthcoming problems or, if the report is good, that you should have no problems.

[craigw]

wow, so many replies so quickly! thanks.

the house is relatively new & has been rented out almost the whole time since it was built so I'm assuming any defects should have shown up by now.

We didnt see the house through an agent although the notaire also acts as the local agent & I am paying her a token sum as she has assisted with the sale a bit.

the ten year guarantee on the house is in force but I'm not sure how comprehensive this is. The vendor of the house is also the builder & he seems fairly well regarded in the area. (just a bit more info in case its relevant)

thanks for all help.

 

 

 

[Ron Avery]

Wow Who is this Notaire who acts as an immobilier and does not charge the full fee?  

Many Notaires in France also do selling, but all those I know charge a scale fee, what is token??  You sure you haven't got a bill coming?  Is she also doing the legal work? I'd check the bill carefully if I were you......

[craigw]

I did think that myself. Basically the total of the notaires fees and her agents fees come to just over 2% of the sale price. I have confirmed there are no other fees. i found the house myself & did 99% of the negotiation so the notaire is fine with this.

[Alexis]

Come on somebody.  Explain to me why I have always paid 16% Notaires fees.  I always plan for 20% on top of the price.  Are you including the taxes you have to pay?

I know things have changed regarding the amount you pay and the age of the house, but I was under the impression that the minimum was 5%.

Once upon a time, before agencies, the Notaire sold all the houses.  He does all the legal work anyway so it is always first stop Notaire.  They don't put the prices on the advertisments around here because the agencies go round and 'take them off their hands' and add their bit and then show the price in their windows. 

It was the Notaires job to sell houses and  I hadn't realised they charged as well.  Must dig out all the bills.

[Teamedup]

I think Alexis, that houses under a certain age are exempt from certain taxes. I'm sure that I have read it in adverts for property and this may be what affects this sale.

Usually craigw they are far more than this.

[sue702]

My partner and I were not married when we bought, he had children by a previous marriage, so things started to get very complicated. I employed a bi-lingual UK based solicitor to advise me how to buy and to check all the paperwork which also turned out to be more complicted because of a resident farmer. It cost a few quid, but money well spent in my opinion just to have our special circumstances thouroughly looked into so that we got what we expected and what we wanted. If you want his name PM me.

Sue

[Iceni]

I used a specialist UK bi-lingual solicitor who managed to make a hash of the whole thing. If I had not had a mobile phone on me on the day of signing to get them to fax over all the documentation that they had not bothered with we would not have our property. They are well known and advertise in all the major mags.

I found out about the various ways of buying a property via this forum - so thanks everyone for the advice, the Notaire thought we were very well read and our UK lot not.

If you want a survey there are UK chartered surveyors who have decamped to France and will do this for you or like us you can fly a specialist over who happends to be a really good friend and get advice that way (plus some nice drawings as to how to do some specialist work).

All the best

[craigw]

thanks again guys, much appreciated.