registration of motors for non-residents

[frexpt]

Can't find a definitive answer for this, so would be grateful if anyone has a suggestion.

We are UK resident and my wife has a UK registered LHD car which we would like to leave at our place in France. The car is already Euro compliant with a cert of conformity, but currently has UK MOT, tax and insurance.

As non-resident in France, is it going to be possible to register this car there? We would not envisage needing to bring the car back to the UK.

My concern is that when the next UK MOT is due, the Euro set up of the car is going to create difficulties.

[AnOther]

The only thing you will need to register it in France is a utility bill for proof of address, usually EDF, which presumably you will be able to produce.

I don't understand what you mean by "when the next UK MOT is due, the Euro set up of the car is going to create difficulties"

To be legal you will have to French register it so the UK MOT etc. become worthless and completely irrelevent.

[frexpt]

Thanks and sorry....I was thinking out loud! If it hadn't been possible to register the car in France, being non-resident, I was thinking of the problems that might exist in keeping it UK legal.

[nectarine]

yes you can register it in France, no problem, and get French insurance. Very easy. But if you keep it UK registered, of course you need to MOT it which means an annual return to the UK. You will find a French company that can insure a UK reg car, but usually only for a specific time limit. Or you can try Saga insurance, if you intend to keep it UK registered at your UK address, as they allow you to take it out of the country for 364 days a year .. and of course the 365th day is the day you take it back to England for its MOT.

[AnOther]

You were doing OK until the 'but' [blink]

Overriding everything is that fact that once it has been in France for 6 month it becomes obligatory to register it, if you don't it's in the country illegally, with all that might imply in the case of an accident, so the bottom line is that there is no option to keep it in France without registering.

[bigears]

hi

As a uk resident you can legally keep a uk reged car at your maison secondaire if you abide by all the rules.  If the only one you fall foul of is the 6 month french rule, go for a day trip across a border and fill up with fuel keeping the receipt.  I wish in some ways I had not re-registered my van in france and just popped it back for the annual mot, and of course our trip to spain/germany  at regular 6 months intervals. 

[Sunday Driver]

The rule is actually six months maximum in any twelve month period, so a cross border day trip for a fill-up receipt doesn't work.

However, it's all academic because all freexpt wants to do is bring his wife's LHD car over and leave it here permanently.  By registering it, he makes life simple for himself and when he's finished with the car, he can sell it over here for a nice big profit....[;-)]

 

[bigears]

hi

that 6 months in any 12 months is news to me sunday driver nevertheless I will take you word for it as you are a learned one. 

[Will]

Has it been registered in France before? Drawing from our own experience a few years back now, re-registering, in France, a previously-French vehicle that has been exported can be an uphill struggle. You'd think it would be dead easy, but...

I seem to recall the main problem was that the dates of UK registration didn't match the records on the French system showing the 'mise en circulation' for a vehicle of that VIN number, which, for some reason, caused the system to grind to a halt. Eventually, finding an old CT document that gave its last French immatriculation, and an exchange of faxes between two prefectures, provided the key to unlock the logjam, but it was a lengthy and tedious process.

Hopefully they have got their act together a bit better now, or perhaps we just had the misfortune to have a badly-informed prefecture.

The 'six months in any twelve month period' is an EU rule rather than anything specifically French. The French appear, in general, not to enforce it, whereas certain UK constabularies (notably Northamptonshire) have interpreted it rather too strictly by assuming that if a foreign vehicle is noted twice in a twelve-month period, on dates that are more than six months apart, it is in the country illegally. Which potentially makes it difficult for those of us who make a short visit once every three months or so.

[frexpt]

That was all very helpful...many thanks to everyone. The car was imported into the UK from Germany, registered, then shipped immediately to France. We will be coming up to six months soon, so will need to make a decision.

Although four years old, the car has only done 5,000 kms. Have I seen something somewhere about cars with less than 6,000 kms being subject to a higher rate of import duty?

[Les]

You may have done, but only if the vehicle is also less than six months old.

[AnOther]

[quote user="bigears"]hi

that 6 months in any 12 months is news to me sunday driver nevertheless I will take you word for it as you are a learned one. 

[/quote]Check HERE, just over 1/2 way down the page.

Also happened upon THIS I'm sure some will recall operation Andover and a certain Mr West, seems it rumbles on.

[Chancer]

THIS

Didnt work.

[Will]

[quote user="frexpt"] Have I seen something somewhere about cars with less than 6,000 kms being subject to a higher rate of import duty?

[/quote]

There isn't any import duty as such within Europe, but as mentioned above if it is less than six months old and has covered less than a certain number of kms you will pay TVA.

AnO - your 'this' link doesn't work. Please fix it, it sounds interesting.

[AnOther]

Try again, it's a link to word doc so can't read it online, you will have to download it.

[Sunday Driver]

The criteria for establishing whether TVA is due on an imported car:

La taxe sur la valeur ajoutée (TVA) est due lors de l'acquisition d'un véhicule neuf (c'est-à-dire un véhicule âgé de moins de 6 mois à la date de livraison ou ayant parcouru moins de 6 000 km).

Source: Douanes

To avoid having to pay TVA, you need at least another 1,000kms on the clock.....

 

[frexpt]

Thanks for that, but I think that page goes on to say that TVA (or VAT in our case) would be payable in the country of residence, which for us, is the UK.

Nevertheless, I spy a grey area, so I think a decent length road-trip will be on the cards when we are next in France. We still have some time before our six months expire

[frexpt]

A shame to have to resurrect this post, as I thought we had it cracked.  Jut just been into the local prefecture to start the process, only to be told that we can't register the car, as we cannot declare that our principal residence is in France.  The lady I dealt with wasn't the most helpful I've come across in France, but she was quite insistent on the non-residency issue, which was, of course, the point of the question in the first place.

I cannot see why this should be a problem..........any further thoughts, please?

[Will]

Last week we registered a car in France (which was already French registered but that's irrelevant to the residence issue). This was done under the new system - it has changed a bit since new immatriculation numbers came in that are with the vehicle for life rather than changing with départment moves. Being too busy to go to, and hang around, the prefecture, we went to our local garage and did it there, having downloaded and filled in the forms. All that was required was evidence of ID (passport, ID card, driving licence etc - any European one will do) and evidence of address (we used a phone bill). The garage copied them, sent them off, and we got the new carte grise today.

No question of whether or not it was a principal residence - you obviously got the regulation French bureaucratic dragon who has to exist among the more helpful staff.

OK, there is a fee payable for handling it via the garage which some of the spendthrifts on this forum may object to paying (though it was reduced because new plates were not needed), but it was worth it for us for the time and money saved by not having to do a 50 mile round trip and hang around at the prefecture (and end up with the dragon).

Unfortunately that procedure won't work if the vehicle is not already registered in France, but the principle is still the same regarding residence of owner.

 

[RicandJo]

How did the prefecture know your principle residence is not in France?  If you present a utility bill addressed to your French property, together with all other documentation that should be that..........when I registered our car the question of residency never even came up.

[frexpt]

Unfortunately that procedure won't work if the vehicle is not already registered in France, but the principle is still the same regarding residence of owner.

Thanks, but unfortunately, the car is presently UK registered!

[frexpt]

[quote user="RicandJo"]

How did the prefecture know your principle residence is not in France?  If you present a utility bill addressed to your French property, together with all other documentation that should be that..........when I registered our car the question of residency never even came up.

[/quote]

All our utility bills are sent to our UK address.  It is important that we remain UK resident, particularly after the implimentation of the double taxation treaty in December.  Even if  the French utility bills were sent to our French house, we still wouldn't be able to enter that address in the box "Residence Principale".  To do so would potentially open up a whole can of worms.

As I have said above, the purpose of this post was to establish wheteher it was possible for a UK resident to re-register a UK car in France, so that it could be left indefinitely at the residence secondaire.

[RicandJo]

You say you went to the prefecture to 'start' the process - prefecture is the last step where upon you walk out of the office with a slip of paper which has your new french reg number on it so you can go get the plates made up.

If I were in your shoes I'd be tempted to tell a little white lie and say 'yes, of course I am resident in France....'  But like I said earlier that question shouldn't arise if you have produced an allowable document with your French address on it.  Acceptable documents listed in the blue band on the right here http://www.ants.interieur.gouv.fr/siv/Immatriculation-d-un-vehicule-d.html?_r=y

Copied from aforementioned site via google translation;

Documentary evidence of domicile for individuals (original or photocopy of one of the following):
- A title, a certificate of taxation or taxation not less than the previous year, a rent receipt, gas, electricity or telephone within six months, proof of home insurance, a sworn statement provided by housing (+ identity and proof of the host + official documents secu card, as family allowances, anpe ...), a special travel booklet, a booklet movement or movement carnet valid for persons to whom the Act provides a common connection, a certificate establishing their link with the host organization on a list established by the prefect and in Paris by Commissioner of Police for people unable to provide proof of their address or that the law does not set a common connection. (note the water bill is not an accepted proof)

 

 

 

[Will]

[quote user="frexpt"]

All our utility bills are sent to our UK address.  It is important that we remain UK resident, particularly after the implimentation of the double taxation treaty in December...

[/quote]

Say no more...

[quote user="frexpt"]

As I have said above, the purpose of this post was to establish wheteher it was possible for a UK resident to re-register a UK car in France, so that it could be left indefinitely at the residence secondaire.

[/quote]

I think it has been clearly established that if you are prepared to admit to having a French address then it is perfectly possible.

[frexpt]

[quote user="Will"][quote user="frexpt"]

All our utility bills are sent to our UK address.  It is important that we remain UK resident, particularly after the implimentation of the double taxation treaty in December...

[/quote]

Say no more...

[quote user="frexpt"]

As I have said above, the purpose of this post was to establish wheteher it was possible for a UK resident to re-register a UK car in France, so that it could be left indefinitely at the residence secondaire.

[/quote]

I think it has been clearly established that if you are prepared to admit to having a French address then it is perfectly possible.

[/quote]

We are perfectly prepared to admit to having a French address and very pleased to have one.  We are not prepared, however, to make a (false) declaration to te effect that it is our main home.

I have to smile, as we have tried to do the right thing by bringing the car into the French system...........