Insurance - UK registered vehicles

[elamessa]

I was in my Insurance  agents office (Allianz) this morning and noticed a pile of addressed envelopes ready for posting and commented that they seem to be busy.

Agent told me that they were letters going out to all the english clients with UK registered cars insured with them that they were not going to be insured again until they registered there vehicle in France.

Apparently the Gendarmes have targeted insurance companies with UK registered cars on their books after having an audit done.

Seems the net is tightening.

[Bob T]

Good, about time too.

[AnOther]

Here here [:'(]

Coupled with the tightening up on the CT front with a C of C now being demanded there will be few opportunities for the cheats to continue getting away with it.

[Chancer]

Who exactly are the cheats cheating?

Still, good news for AXA though isnt it! [:P]

[allanb]

[quote user="Chancer"]Who exactly are the cheats cheating?[/quote]

The state won't be getting the initial registration fee, and I suppose they're depriving the CT industry of some revenue every couple of years.  But I sometimes wonder whether it makes economic sense, compared with the UK road tax and MOT inspection fees.

Of course, that's assuming that they do pay the UK costs, so that the car appears to be legal.

[cooperlola]

When I registered our UK reg' car here when I first arrived, my insurance agent made it quite clear to me that I had to re-register the car and told me (this is six years ago now) that if we did not comply then the whole French insurance industry would "black ball" us.  Clearly this was not the case if companies like Allianz have been renewing policies on UK reg' cars.  I hope the gendarmes prosecute these companies for illegally insuring cars but I bet they won't.  I wonder if Allianz would have paid out if these cars had been in an accident or claimed that they were illegally registered and thus not in compliance with the law.

[ebaynut]

[quote user="allanb"][quote user="Chancer"]Who exactly are the cheats cheating?[/quote]
The state won't be getting the initial registration fee, and I suppose they're depriving the CT industry of some revenue every couple of years.  But I sometimes wonder whether it makes economic sense, compared with the UK road tax and MOT inspection fees.

Of course, that's assuming that they do pay the UK costs, so that the car appears to be legal.
[/quote]

It would not bother me one bit if the state was not receiving the "fee", or if the CT inspectors were missing out on a few Euros.

What would concern me would be be if they hit anyone and found they were not covered, which would mean the innocent party was not fully compensated.

[Sunday Driver]

It's even more basic than that...

Every owner of a motor vehicle who wishes to use it on the road must register themselves as the person responsible for that vehicle so that the authorities can enforce the traffic regulations.  People who choose not to comply often boast about being able to flash radars and get away with speeding fines.  Presumably, they also feel they can knock over pedestrians and drive off, safe in the knowledge that the authorities won't be able to trace them and prosecute them.  Lack of respect for the rules imposed by the society in which they live doesn't seem to bother them.

 

[Chancer]

[quote user="allanb"][quote user="Chancer"]Who exactly are the cheats cheating?[/quote]
The state won't be getting the initial registration fee, and I suppose they're depriving the CT industry of some revenue every couple of years.  But I sometimes wonder whether it makes economic sense, compared with the UK road tax and MOT inspection fees.

Of course, that's assuming that they do pay the UK costs, so that the car appears to be legal.
[/quote]

My thoughts exactly Allan, they are cheating themselves by paying road tax and MOT every year as opposed to a one off carte grise payment and CT every two years.

But I want to ask the question again who exactly are the cheats cheating? Or perhaps it should be "why do you call them cheats?"

Is it simply that having jumped through the hoops to register a vehicle, battled with a foreign language and fonctionaires people want others to have to suffer similarly? why get cross about it if they chooes not to(and it is always so predictable when this subject arises) when you could feel smug instead ?

[Jonzjob]

"My thoughts exactly Allan, they are cheating themselves by paying road

tax and MOT every year as opposed to a one off carte grise payment and

CT every two years."

Chancer, the problem is that these clowns are NOT paying road tax or MOT on their vehicles that are not registered anywhere any more. They aren't legal in the country that the plates on the car represent because of that. You can't be a French resident and own a U.K. registered car based here on a permanent basis and still be legal. If you are resident here and have a car that is always here then it has to be French registered. There is no argument, simple as that!

[AnOther]

[quote user="Chancer"]But I want to ask the question again who exactly are the cheats cheating?[/quote]They are cheating the system and the laws of their host country, it's enough isn't it ?

Cheating does not necessarily mean in pure monetary terms.

[Chancer]

Just playing devils advocat you understand, are they cheating rules or laws?

Dependant on the circumstances and whether they are daft etc I am reasonably happy to bend rules for the advantage of others or myself but draw the line at breaking the law especially in France where penalties are so much higher.

If these "cheats" are actually breaking a law why are none of them ever prosecuted for it? Even in the UK the punishment seems to be the seizure of the vehicle which can be challenged and is completely different to being prosecuted, are the authorities just taking the easy way out?

Does an EU ruling automatically mean that those not complying with it are breaking the law?

There is a big polemic at the moment regarding the expulsion of the Roms, both sides are claiming that the other is acting illegally under EU law/rules

[allanb]

France has decided to construct and maintain a road system, and to recover some of the cost by charging users a vehicle tax.  It has also decided to try to make sure that the vehicles that use the roads are in good condition, and to make users pay for the necessary tests.

France says: foreign visitors are welcome to use the roads free of these charges (just as French visitors to the UK can use British roads free of charge), but if you become resident you pay, just as a French national would.

If you dishonestly pretend to be a visitor you are defrauding the system; I think that justifies the word "cheat" - although I wasn't the first to use it.  Some people may think it's trivial; but a thief is a thief even if it was only a few quid that he took.

[quote user="Chancer"]If these "cheats" are actually breaking a law why are none of them ever prosecuted for it?[/quote]

I don't know.  Maybe it's because at first glance a UK-registered vehicle in France may belong to a legitimate tourist; I don't think there's anything visible to show that the owner is resident here.  Or maybe some of them are prosecuted and don't talk about it.

[Chancer]

Good points AllanB.

I have been reflecting on this, I watch French TV every night which is mainly news and current affairs programmes, I watch the regional, national and DomTom news each lunchtime and hear the radio news pretty much every hour, I am always aghast as just how severe the financial and penal penalties are in France, not just "you can be fined up to" but those regularly handed out by the courts, that in itself is enough to keep me and most people on the straight and narrow.

Given that this is a favorite hobby horse of many forum members some of which often post "the penalty for ignoring X code de la route is €5000 fine and up to 12 months in prison" I am really surprised not to have read of the penalties for this infraction if it is indeed one.

Coming back to my question of cheating, yes I can see that they are cheating the French treasury and also themselves if they are keeping up the UK road tax and MOT.

[Jonzjob]

Allan, you said " Maybe it's because at first glance a UK-registered vehicle in France may

belong to a legitimate tourist; I don't think there's anything visible

to show that the owner is resident here.  Or maybe some of them are prosecuted and don't talk about it"

So many U.K. reg cars also have CT stickers, French insurance stickers and no tax disk, so they are not MOTd or U.K. taxed either! So they are in a very dark grey area me thinks?

[Pickles]

[quote user="Chancer"]Given that this is a favorite hobby horse of many forum members some of which often post "the penalty for ignoring X code de la route is €5000 fine and up to 12 months in prison" I am really surprised not to have read of the penalties for this infraction if it is indeed one.[/quote]

According to http://www.lescomparateurs.com/guide/acheter-voiture-etranger.html, failure to reregister your imported car within the time limits is a 4th category offence (135€ fine) and can result in immobilisation of the vehicle concerned.

There's an interesting story at http://www.club-mercedes-passion.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&p=144336 involving someone who brought in a car on German export plates that then expired before he had re-registered it. The police were threatening him with use of false plates - a whole new kettle of fish with respect to fines and other punishments (and this offence also includes defaut volontaire de plaques, which is a 6-point offence).

Regards

Pickles

[Chancer]

A bit like my French rigi-pliante caravane bought in England that becomes illegal as soon as it hits French soil when being towed by my French registered car, an amende of €90 is not going to make me break into a sweat, I am sure that the threat of €135 is not going to be much of a deterrent to the determined.

The only case that I know of someone being rumbled was my French pal that bought a Westfield from one of my mates when I brokered the deal (he was supposed to be buying mine!), there was no possibility of him being able to re-register it so he happily posed around in it for a couple of years on UK plates and insurance from AXA.

All was well until he finished an affair with a bunny boiler that was married to a local gendarme, he started to get leaned on by the guys colleagues, getting pulled over whenever he drove in whatever vehicle, they didnt prosecute him for the Westfield but made threats if he were to be seen in it again so he sold it, to a Gendarme! I sometimes see him tooling around in it, still on UK plates of course.