Registering a trailer

[powerdesal]

As mentioned by me in the distant past, I am (still) attempting to register my new caravan, its a Bailey Unicorn Valencia with an MTPLM of 1565 kg, which I take as the PTAC in French terms.

It has an MRO of 1409 kg but I cannot remember the French equivalent terminology.

I have, at last, been called for an inspection by DREAL in Torigni sur Vire next Thursday afternoon. Hopefully this will be the (almost) last step. However, the DREAL letter states that, in the case of a trailer, it should be presented with a load of 2/3 PTAC. As this is approximately 1042 kg and the MRO is 1409 kg it is patently impossible to meet that criteria.

What to do?

Has anyone got any thoughts on what might happen, what I should do / say, or anything ???????????

[AnOther]

Does this help at all ?

http://www.tourerinfo.co.uk/payloads/pdf/TC-Payloads-FAQ-final-revision.pdf

I think they perhaps mean loaded to not loaded with.

In other words, 1565 - 1409 (= 156) x 2/3 = 102kg + 1409 = 1437kg

[powerdesal]

''Dans le cas d'une remorque presenter le vehicule charge au 2/3 du PTAC''

Apologies for the lack of accents.

You may be correct in that I should present the trailer with 2/3 of the payload allowance. As I can't meet any other interpretation I may as well be ''hung for a sheep as a lamb''

edit: what is the French acronym for MRO (mass in running order) ?

Just how I am going to do it, bathroom scales rule OK I suppose.!!

[cooperlola]

If you have a local grain store/prairie skyscraper or the like, they probably have a weighbridge for the incoming product.  Mine will weigh a trailer for the price of a beer or two if I ask nicely.

[powerdesal]

I had the totally empty caravan weighed at the local Agrial for submission as part of the dossier so I know it's present empty weight. I will just have to weigh each thing that I put in to get to the 2/3 load allowance figure.

[cooperlola]

Well, if it were me I'd use bags of feed which I know the weight of but then I have them around the place.   Do you have any potential balast of that sort lying about, Steve?

[powerdesal]

Not really Debs, I could use concrete blocks, I have lots of those but, realistically, I might as well put in the van the stuff that normally lives there anyway. Gas bottle, toilet, water tank (empty), crockery / cutlery etc etc and weigh each as I put them back in place. They were only removed to get the totally empty van weighed so that the weight ticket could be supplied in the dossier.

[powerdesal]

Success.

DREAL inspection done - no problems, they weren't interested in the weight at all. Checked the chassis plate details, length, all lights, axle number (presumably - he was underneath, I wasn't).

I anticipated an internal check for gas isolation valves etc but no - all stated to be already in conformity.

Now to pay the bill ( E86.90 ) then get the paperwork for the Prefecture.

ps They don't take cash or card, only a cheque - which I don't tend to carry.

[AnOther]

Result then !

Maybe a candidate for a sticky ?

[powerdesal]

I will try and put together an ''idiots guide'' to registering a UK caravan, it may take some time.

[cooperlola]

An idiot's guide would be wonderful.  I've long wanted to register my horse trailer (the company in the UK went bust but it's on a French chassis with the manufacturer's plate in tact) so I can flog the thing.

Really glad all the hard work paid off for you, Steve.

[powerdesal]

I have given the ''Idiots Guide'' some thought and, to be fair, it's very difficult to set a definitive method, primarily because, in the case of UK caravans, age is a major factor ( I believe ). Also other types of trailer may be treated differently - I have no idea on that.

The first port of call is a visit to a DREAL main office, in my case it was at Caen. The chap in the office was extremely helpful, I took every piece of paperwork that I had relating to the caravan which, because it was new, included conformity statements for the gas and electrical installations. I had asked the dealer for these but ended up being re-directed to the caravan manufacturer ( Bailey ) and getting them from there.

The DREAL office went through the relevant forms and in fact completed them for me. They advised that I needed additional info, specifically being conformity documents relating to the chassis, axle (in respect of weight rating), brakes (including handbrake) and the towing hitch. These had to come from the manufacturer ( ALKO-Kober in my case ).

I contacted ALKO UK who agreed to supply the information at a cost of GBP85. They in turn contacted ALKO SAS in France who eventually sent the documents. They had quoted 6 weeks delivery but, because it took longer, they waived the fee. Prior to that I had to give them the axle plate details which I discovered was actually underneath on the axle casing.

These were then taken back to DREAL in Caen who compiled the dossier and advised that an inspection date would be notified.

Weeks went by and finally a letter from DREAL ( another dept - technical side ) requested further information. This included proof of title of ownership for which I used the purchase receipt (and the VISA receipt ) and two documents relating to the chassis and brake designs.

Back to ALKO-Kober (France) who very quickly sent me, by e mail attachment, some 40+ pages of design data, together with the comment that DREAL already had this data on there database !!!!!

Submission of all this to the technical dept, by snail mail, seemed to do the trick as I next got a technical inspection appointment at Torigni sur Vire. That was done yesterday and was a basic check of the lights, chassis number(s), weight plates and I presume axle plate details. The body dimensions were also checked. The cost was E 86.90. nb Cheques only.

Ins'allah I will now get the necessary paperwork to take to the Prefecture in Caen to immatriculate the van and get a registration plate number.

The whole procedure has taken approximately 6 months to this point and I cannot insure the van until I have an immatriculation number. It may be of interest that caravan insurance is going to cost about double the car insurance and there are very few companies which will insure caravans.

[sid]

Hi

I've given the following information to several people but I thought I should add it to yours here for the sake of completeness.

You are correct in saying that procedures differ; with the help of great advice from Sunday Driver, I registered our 21-year-old Lunar caravan in 2006.

First step was to collect every scrap of paper relating to the 'van (original invoice, handbook, photographs of the caravan, plus photos of the various identification plates on the chassis and on the Knott axle etc - these are very useful), and National Caravan Council certificate for BS 4626.

I also wrote to Lunar and they sent me a letter, in English with a copy in French, confirming that the caravan built in 1989, conformed to EN1645.

At SD's suggestion I put all of this stuff in a folder with a nice photo on the front ("Immatriculation d'une caravanne britannique"). They seem to like this sort of neat presentation.

I then made an initial appointment with DRIRE (as was) in Niort and went (without the caravan) to discuss the next steps. The guy was extremely helpful.

He explained that I would need additional marker running lamps on the side of the caravan and some side reflectors. These were not fitted as standard in 1989. I would have to make an identification plate and secure it (rivets) to the RHS of the A-frame in an accessible place. I would also need to make an appointment with Bureau Veritas to have the caravn inspected for gas safety, ventilation, and mains electrical standards.

I fitted the new marker lamps and reflectors, and changed the internal mains sockets to EU type. I made a plate from aluminium sheet and punch-marked the necessary identification details (Make, model, VIN, PTAC, PV). For the VIN I used the original chassis number. The weights I already had from the manufacturers plate. I made the appointment with BV and took the caravan to Angouleme for inspection. This turned out to be a very cursory examination. The fact that we've had the caravan from new and kept it in pristine condition was a big help I think. Cost of the inspection and certificate in 2006 was 179,40€.

I contacted DRIRE again and received an appointment to present myself and the caravan for inspection at DRIRE in Mazieres en Gatine, together with a cheque for 86,90€. This is an inspection site used for heavy good vehicles. I had to drive the car and caravan over a huge pit, rather a hairy experience as the pit was designed for the wheelbase of a truck and my car only just straddled the gap! Again another cursory inspection, checking the lights, verifying the identification numbers, and the job was done.

3 weeks later I was able to collect my immatriculation certificate, cost was 48€.

The caravan was included on my car policy for third-party risks all during this period using the chassis number, and the policy was amended once the regstration number was known. It is still insured today on our car policy, and I get a separate green certificate for it. Because of its age I didn't consider it worth insuring separately (fully comprehensively).

I've seen so many queries about this process, and difficulties that various people have had, even giving up, but the steps are simple, if a little tedious at times, and provided you follow the requirements it all works out in the end. The whole process took 2 months.

I should mention the temporary immatriculation certificate which is required to enable you to tow the caravan to its various inspections. I'm not going to go into any great detail on this as I can now admit to having taken a shortcut (risk) here, but it worked in the end, including having to stop for a routine gendarme "controle" on the way to Angouleme.

Sid

[powerdesal]

Sid,

Interesting and helpful.

Obviously I did not need to go down the Bureau Veritas route as the van is new and conforms to the various gas / electrical / marker light rules. Although it obviously has UK style socket outlets internally. These were not checked, looked at or even of interest.

The DREAL inspection was also at an HGV place but the pit access was not a problem other than the height of the rolling road rollers. It's surprising that the cost of the inspection at E 86.90 is still the same today as it was for you in 2006 - no increase in 6 years, that must be a record.

I too took some risk regarding the temporary plates, as I did when I towed the van back from UK via Dunkerque. As I had used the van in UK for a few weeks it was not possible to run on WW plates as they are not valid outside of France, I used the car number, which was of course totally illegal ( being a French registered car) but I got away with it, which is not of course a recommended method. When towing to Torigni for the inspection I ''forgot'' to put any plate on the van at all. A passing Gendarmerie vehicle didn't seem to notice though.

Regarding insurance, I wanted / want comprehensive cover as the van cost as much as the car and my AXA agent could only offer one company who would provide cover. They required the plate number which obviously was not available. The quoted price was between 600 and 700 Euro which is about double the comprehensive cover cost for the car.

The time scale for the process was obviously exacerbated by Christmas and New Year, plus the delay by ALKO in supplying their documentation plus the need to supply DREAL with additional copies of documentation which they already have.

As an aside, I had to virtually strip down the 'A' frame cover to let the inspector see the data plate on the frame.

[sid]

That insurance premium is a bit of a shocker! [:-))]

I had to make an aperture in the fibreglass A-frame housing, so that the new rivetted ID plate was visible. 

The conclusion to draw from all this, for others out there, is that it IS possible to get the immatriculation; age of the vehicle and door "on the wrong side" are all myths.

Bonne route!

 

[powerdesal]

Update:

Went to the Prefecture in St Lo this morning and got the 'certificat Provisoire d'immatriculation' with no hassle at all. The PV from DREAL, plus identification ( used UK driving licence ) plus letter from an ''Official'' source to the residence, plus the application form - et voila, Euro 59.50 cheque and that was it.

Update on the update:

This morning I received the 'proper' carte gris for the caravan, less than 24 hrs after application. Efficient or what ?

[sid]

A very satisfying feeling, n'est-ce pas? [:)]

Now for some outings, eh?

 

[powerdesal]

Yep, I feel a trip to Mouchard is appropriate, to check out a gravestone.

[jerry in france]

Thank you all this has been very interesting. I have one problem though my trailer is historical being a Rice Beaufort horse trailer. The problem I have is the company has gone out of business so I cant get any paperwork.

Has anyone got any ideas as to how i proceed. The trailer is 1980 and would not get a certificate of conformity any way I have owned it for 13 years and don't want to get rid of it. I've been ringing the DREAL to get advice but they never answer the phone! Their offices are 2 hours drive away. I'd like everything in place before I go in for a wasted journey.

I have the chassis number And know all the weights

thanks in advance

[Pickles]

[quote user="jerry in france"]Thank you all this has been very interesting. I have one problem though my trailer is historical being a Rice Beaufort horse trailer. The problem I have is the company has gone out of business so I cant get any paperwork.

Has anyone got any ideas as to how i proceed. The trailer is 1980 and would not get a certificate of conformity any way I have owned it for 13 years and don't want to get rid of it. I've been ringing the DREAL to get advice but they never answer the phone! Their offices are 2 hours drive away. I'd like everything in place before I go in for a wasted journey.

I have the chassis number And know all the weights

thanks in advance[/quote]

Richardson Rice Trailers still exists in some form, so it might be an idea to contact them to see who holds the paperwork for the trailers. The registered office from Companies Hous is:

Name & Registered Office:

RICHARDSON RICE TRAILERS LIMITED

c/o C/O YORKSHIRE SHEETING & INSULATION SERVICES LTD

GREEN LANE TRADING ESTATE

CLIFTON

YORK

NORTH YORKSHIRE

ENGLAND

YO30 5PY

Company No. 02687047

I suggest that you look up Yorkshire Sheeting and phone them.

[AnOther]

In the absence of a CoC for the trailer as a whole then you will need to collect CoC's for the individual components, the axle, hitch, brakes, etc. etc. then take plenty of photos and consult with your local DREAL as to what modifications they might require you to make in order to get an attestation for it.

To give you some idea of what modifications they might demand these are the construction rules for trailers in general.

Unfortunately apocryphal evidence suggests that success or failure in such matters can hinge on nothing more than the whim of an individual DREAL inspector so two hours away or not I think a personal visit may prove unavoidable.

Bonne chance !