Looking to move to Toulouse, looking for direction in regards to employment

[tech-teacher]

My partner and I just came back from a month in Toulouse and loved it.  We have been wanting to leave the US for a while and think we may have found a suitable city.  We love the weather, the food, the diversity, and think it meets all of our criteria, now the hard part, how do we do it?  We would like to move in 1-2 years or so and need some direction finding answers.  I'd appreciate answers if you have them but even pointing us in the right direction would be greatly appreciated.

He is a French citizen and I am from the US.  We can't get good answers to the question: If we register as domestic partners in France (the PAX?) will I be able to work legally in France?  For this reason we're hoping gay marriage will go through soon as this sounds more promising for me to attain a carte sejour.  We have been together 10 years here in the US and have domestic partner documents from Berkeley, CA and Philadelphia, PA as proof.  Does anyone know if I can get a carte sejour by being domestic partners (I know we'd have to register in France too, does that take long?) or does only marriage give you that?

On to work matters, I currently teach computers in public school here in Philadelphia.  I have taught a variety of grades and a variety of subjects so I know teaching English would be an option.  I'd prefer not to but I wouldn't turn down a job if offered.  I also develop websites on the side which is really the direction I'd like to go into.  I understand Toulouse is becoming, if not already is, the high tech capital of France.   Does Toulouse offer a lot of opportunities for web development?  I can do many aspects of web design and have been focusing on e-commerce as everyone seems to need this these days.  I'm also curious about information security and have thought about pursuing another Master's degree in it but only if there seem to be opportunities in the Toulouse area.  Anyone know? 

I also am the network administrator in the school where I work.  I maintain the LAN and do trouble shooting of the network and computers, train teachers in software and hardware, and maintain the school website.  I don't have qualifications for Network Administration but can be a very useful assistant of some kind in this capacity.  My guess is that with all the universities and high tech companies in Toulouse there must be jobs of this sort as well.  What do you think?

I understand French very well as we have many French speaking friends so I hear it everyday, but I don't speak that well.  I plan to really focus in the next 1-2 years on speaking better so hopefully language won't be much of an issue when and if we get there.  I am fluent in Spanish, is that seen as a plus?  I thought maybe I could enter a university program for a year or so in Toulouse to learn the language better, and be able to work part time on a student visa if I am unable to get a carte sejour the other ways previously mentioned.  If you are accepted into a French University for learning the language does that give you the right to work like when studying anything else?  We have an investment property in PHiladelphia that we don't plan on selling that will provide me with more than enough income to satisfy the the $500 dollar a month requirement for the non resident student status.  Does this sound reasonable or am I dreaming?

I also have read that if you go to school in France it is easier to get a job there.  I thought that maybe I could go to school for web design or information security and have a better chance at getting a job.  Even if it were just a technical school, I would learn more and hopefully be easier to employ, I love school by the way so I really don't mind going back.  Language becomes more of an issue then but luckily computer programming languages are universal.  Is there any truth to it being easier to get a job if you went to school here?

Finally we run a contemporary design shop/gift gallery here in Philadelphia, which my partner would like to open in Toulouse.  He basically runs it and I design the website, graphic materials, basic accounting.  He is a French citizen so I know he can do this but where do we begin to look into replicating this in France?  We are an s-corp here in the US for tax purposes but neither of us understands French tax law so we have no idea where to begin.  Any ideas?    

Are we deluding ourselves?  I feel there are a lot of high tech opportunities in the Toulouse area so that was also part of our reasoning but does it sound like a long shot for me to be able to work there.  I know I could just work at the store and he can take the paycheck but from opening our store here I know it is more like 2-3 years before you can really pay yourself, if it even succeeds.  I feel like I have many semi-plausible ideas and some specialized skills that make me hopeful for finding work but doesn't everyone think that too?  Any ideas or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.  Thanks!

[Rosebud]

Hello Tech-teacher

That's a very long post with lots of technical questions!  I can't answer them all but I can tell you that you are not deluding yourselves.  It sounds like you have thought it through in detail and have many opportunities.  Toulouse could definitely be the place for you.

We live in Toulouse and my husband is self employed, he is a programmer/consultant and has been drifting into the web design business for about the last year.  He now has the freedom to work from home, that's the beauty of web design, you don't need to be in any particular place.  He has clients in France, the UK and the States.

There are certainly many high-tech companies here and I think with your skills you should have no problems finding work.  Certainly you will need to brush up on your French, but it sounds to me like you have the opportunity to do that before you get here.  As a fluent Spanish speaker you will also have an advantage, especially if you can get yourself some sort of translation qualification before you get here.  I know of a company here who are always looking for qualified translators.  Perhaps that sort of work could tide you over whilst you were studying.

I really can't answer the question on same sex marraiges here, but maybe your partner, as a French citizen, would be better equipped to find out about that side of things.

Good luck!

[:)]

 

[tech-teacher]

Thanks for your encouraging response.  I too would consider starting my own web design business but I think dealing with my residency issues, opening the store, and adjusting to life in France will be more than enough.  I would like to get a job first and then when things are more stable consider starting my own business.

It is still a little perplexing to me this PACS

A foreign partner in a PACS with a French citizen can obtain

a temporary residence permit (“permit de sejour”) after a one-year waiting period. It is subject to annual

renewal through the local mayor's office.  After five years, a permit de

sejour holder is eligible to apply for permanent residency (which in France means a ten-year permit).²⁷⁵

Article 12 of the PACS law states that in considering the grant of permanent

residency to a foreign partner, the existence of a Pact is “one of the elements

for assessing personal connections in France.”

Does anyone know if this means I can go to France but during that one year waiting period I have to leave every 3 months? 

Can we apply for the PACS while living in the US and then move to France after the waiting period?

Does my partner maybe have to move to France first so we can get PACSed and I will still need to live outside of France for a year for that waiting period?

Can we move to France, get PACSed, and then I attend school on a student visa to allow me to work part time?  After the year waiting period then apply for my permit de sejour so I can get a regular job?

I know in the US companies now are reluctant to even consider employment for people who don't already have their papers in order so I would like to have my permit de sejour before I try to find full time work in France.  With specialized skills are French companies willing to help get papers in order for the right job candidate?  I can probably guess the answer to that question.

Another trip to the French consulate is again in order, but they have generally not been very knowledgeable about this, so they have been only marginally helpful.  Anyone else in a similar position?

[Tourangelle]

I don't know the answers to your questions, but I do know that it is possible to sign a pacs abroad at a consulate or an embassy, as I know somebody who has done it.  Sounds like a phone call to the French embassy is in order [:)]

[PossumGirl]

T-T, you may find a lot of competition in the high-tech area, especially as Toulouse IS such a center of high tech activity.  You definitely need to get your French language skills up to par, as that is probably the only way to actually get hired.

I will tell you that you have one great benefit in coming from Philadelphia:  you can merely exchange your PA driver's license for a French license.  I couldn't do that, as my license was from California, which doesn't have an exchange treaty with France.  I got my first license in Philadelphia many moons ago, but unfortunatelly, even though they went out of their way to help me, the PA DMV couldn't find trace of it.  I had to go through the rigorous French driver's license exam.

There's a website for Americans in Toulouse that might be able to help you.

Good luck!

PG

[Afy]

1. It will be nuts to move to France. Working and trying to run a business in France is absolutely insane. To give you an idea... the French language does not have a word other than borrowed english for Entreprenurship.

2. The French are generally wary of Foreigners, more so of the "ugly Yankee"

You want to move to a more open area than Philly... try Boston or SF. Better than France.

3. Yes it is easier to find a job in France is you go to school here. Provided that the School is a "Grand Ecole" other than that youre SOL.

4. To work in Hitech in France you definetely need a lot more than basic Netwowrk Admin/ Some web development skills.

 

5. Spanish in France will makes things easier to about the same level as if you spoke fluent Tibetian or Punjabi.

I would work harder at making things a go in the US rather than trying this half thought out move to what has to be one of most hostile countries to foreigners in the world.

[KathyC]

[quote user="Afy"]

. To give you an idea... the French language does not have a word other than borrowed english for Entreprenurship.

[/quote]

You may not speak French, but you certainly speak Dubya!

[Tony F Dordogne]

And from Afy's other posts re his domestic situation, which may be colouring his views of France, language skills which he dosn't have apparently are really important.

[PossumGirl]

I haven't found ANY anti-American sentiment directed towards me in visiting here for over 25 years and living here for almost 2.  In fact, if anything, I find people open and interested about the United States, albeit confused over our politics and social policies (or rather lack of them).

It DOES help to speak French.  But attitude helps as well, and if people see that you are making an effort to integrate in your community, they are willing to forgive language mistakes.

PG

[Afy]

[quote user="KathyC"][quote user="Afy"]

. To give you an idea... the French language does not have a word other than borrowed english for Entreprenurship.

[/quote]

You may not speak French, but you certainly speak Dubya!

[/quote]

 

I dont speak Dubya, personally I think the GWB is well mentally challenged, but that is a different story. But I am no socialist either.

I am happy that for a number of people here the French dream is working.

However lets keep in mind that like the origninal person in the thread, without any French speaking skills, this country can quickly become a hell hole.

Jobs: Given non-transferable scholl teachning skills, and limited IT skills, netiher being very marketable here, how are they going live?

They have an established business in the US, and are from the looks of it comofrtably set up. However I dont find re-setting up here easy, and certainly not if you have no skills. (That is the one department I got very lucky in, being on the leading edge of technology, and having very marketable skills).

Now if you have a few million stashed away.. well come on over and live the French dream.

[KathyC]

[quote user="Afy"]

 

However lets keep in mind that like the origninal person in the thread, without any French speaking skills, this country can quickly become a hell hole.

[/quote]

The original poster said that he understood French very well but his speaking skills were not that good. I would think that most people in his situation would expect to be pretty fluent in French after a year or two, particularly as his partner is French. I realise that you have been living in the country for a couple of years without managing to learn the language, but many people would be well on the way to being competent in it by now, particularly with the advantage of being able to speak the language at home

I would spell out what I meant about speaking Dubya and your comment about entrepreneurship, but somehow I think you'd still have difficulties in grasping it!

[Anton Redman]

It is probablby worth having a look round

http://www.americansintoulouse.com/

and possibly joining. The site has been going at least 8 years and gives a useful perspective for somebody coming from North America rather than the U.K.  Knowledge of any Latin derived language is of use when you are trying to get by in another. You should be however, be aware that Toulouse has more Catalan speakers than Spain.

[Joerger École]

I think that it is useful to offer caution for someone from the USA, or elsewhere for that matter, about relocating to work and live in France. At the same time many have been successful.  We have lived in France for nearly seven years. It has been challenging at times. We have had to adapt considerably from our USA life style and culture. There are a few things we miss and wish we could just "import" to here, but we have found that there are many things to recommend living here. That is obvious to most.

One thing that has not been difficult for us is being accepted by the French. We have experienced full, whole-hearted acceptance by the French in the area that we live. Sure, people are sometimes cautious, but more often they are warm, courteous and helpful.  I suspect, as has been mentioned, that our attitude make a big difference.  When we first arrived we spoke very little French and understood even less.  That did not seem to matter to our neighbors. Within a week of being here we were invited to dinner in two different homes.  A few months later we attended the annual village picnic where we were introduced to everyone (75 people).  Many were curious about us, why we moved here, how we found France, etc.  It was the beginning of numerous friendships based on mutual respect.

By the way, according to Merriam-Webster dictionary “entrepreneur” (and by extension) entrepreneurship as follows: “Etymology: French, from Old French, from entreprendre to undertake”.  I take Afy’s point that France does not have the same level of entrepreneurship as one would experience in the US. Still, recent developments in the French show that the economy is growing.  Small businesses start here everyday. Look around and see that new shops open regularly, new services are advertised, large enterprises expand, new housing is built, etc.  Of course, just as in the US, many small businesses fail within a short time. That is, I believe, the nature of entrepreneurship.

Afy makes another good point:  “Do your homework!” I think that is what the original poster is attempting to do by inquiring in this forum. Good luck to them. I hope they find the way to realize their dream of living in France.

[samdebretagne]

[quote user="tech-teacher"]Does anyone know if this means I can go to France but during that one year waiting period I have to leave every 3 months?  Can we apply for the PACS while living in the US and then move to France after the waiting period?  Does my partner maybe have to move to France first so we can get PACSed and I will still need to live outside of France for a year for that waiting period?[/quote]

I'm an American pacs'ed to a Frenchman, and can tell you that the laws recently changed to make it more difficult for those who are pacs'ed to get the right to work and live in France.   The best thing to do would be to sign a PACS at your nearest French embassy, wait a year so you have proof of "un an de vie commune" and then move to France afterwards.  As long as you have concrete proof that you have lived together for at least a year (signed,notarized, and translated letter from landlord, official bills -electricy, phone, etc) you should be able to get a carte de séjour that will allow you to work.

Before the laws changed, you could just get pacs'ed and they would give you a one year cds visiteur so you could establish your year of vie commune and then you could move on to the cds vie privée et familiale that allows you to work, but because of the recent changes, many préfectures will no longer do this.  It ends up being a catch 22 because the couple needs to have lived together a year in order to get the cds, but the other partner isn't allowed to live in France legally so it's not possible.  Someone I know on another site is now having this exact same problem.

[quote user="tech-teacher"]Can we move to France, get PACSed, and then I attend school on a student visa to allow me to work part time?  After the year waiting period then apply for my permit de sejour so I can get a regular job?[/quote]

This would be another solution if you wanted to move right away - PACS in the US, then come on a student visa for a year and then apply for the cds vie privée et familiale after a year here.  You would need to make sure both of your names are on all the bills though, because they only accept bills from France Telecom, EDF, tax returns, and rent receipts as proof.

[quote user="tech-teacher"]Another trip to the French consulate is again in order, but they have generally not been very knowledgeable about this, so they have been only marginally helpful.  Anyone else in a similar position?

[/quote] 

I would also recommend calling the head préfecture for your department, as they will be able to tell you exactly how they treat the cases of foreigners who are pacs'ed and what the requirements are.

[Quillan]

I know nothing of Pac's so I won't even go there.

Regarding your IT skills I would seriously consider while waiting to move (or not) to France getting certified by Microsoft and any other company (perhaps CISCO). Of course you will have to pay for the exams but it will give you commercial qualifications and accreditations that will give you a better chance of employment anywhere in the world. Try looking at http://www.cbtnuggets.com to get some idea. You can buy coarse books via amazon.

Being able to speak French is really a must. I did not speak French when I first came here (did German [badly] at school) and I can remember four years ago on this forum getting in to a 'debate' about in not really mattering. Two years later I had to admit that I was totally wrong. You can get by with poor French if you work with only English speaking people or run a B&B or Gites but for anything else you really need to speak it 'like a native'. You may consider doing an immersion, Alliance Française http://www.alliancefr.org/  is used by government bodies as it is deemed to be about the best, they also hold course in the US. They are very good but you either get on with them or not as everything is done in French. They are often run at the universities during the summer break.

Other than the above I can't see any reason why you can't make it work. I would not take any notice of the 'Grand Ecole' comment because it is only relevant to and absolute minuscule amount of people and was somewhat of a snide comment (in my opinion) and few people actually know what they are.

[tech-teacher]

I don't know if it is worth responding now but here goes

I am learning the language now and plan to spend our first year exclusively devoted to learning the language.  That won't be a problem.

I understated my tech skills so as not to sound arrogant, its an annoying habit of mine, I didn't want to sound too confident about getting work.  I think my language issue will prevent me from getting work more than my technical ability.

I think I will focus on developing websites and tutoring in English to earn a little money right away.  We do have income from a rental property and a sizeable chunk of money when we sell our main home and business.

I know our standard of living will be different and I don't think of it as living our dream in France.  My partner is French, his mother is old, he'd like to go back and occassionally help take care of her when needed.  I think our reasons are different from the "lets try to live in France" crowd, not that there is anything wrong with that but it is not us.

Having made the "mistake" of moving to Philadelphia we are pretty clear on what aspects of a place are very important.  I just want to find out if it sounds reasonable that I would be able to supplement our income with income from web development, on my own if need be, and English tutoring.  My partner is French and able to work, so providing he can find a job, I think we'll be alright.

We haven't decided if we will try to open a store or not, but if we can both find work, even a little our income will be sufficient.

[PossumGirl]

I "escaped" from Philadelphia in 1978, so I feel your pain!

Finding extra income the way you want will probably all hinge on the various contacts you can make.  I always find (and it was no different in Los Angeles than it is here), that personal connections are the best way to get anywhere!

I wish you the best of luck; your reasons for moving seem sound to me.

PG

[Russethouse]

 I was thinking of visiting Philadelphia next year - what's the problem ?

[Just Katie]

Too many Welsh decendents live there RH[:-))]

[tech-teacher]

[quote user="Russethouse"] I was thinking of visiting Philadelphia next year - what's the problem ?[/quote]

There is no problem.  We just don't like it too much.  People seem to be moving here because it is likely to be the next big city to boom in the US.  A lot of people who got priced out or couldn't make it other places came here so it has a strange feeling to me.  As a whole the city has a chip on its shoulder about its 200 year fall from grace.  It used to be the premier city in the US, we're talking many years ago.  It has lots of things you'd expect big cities to have restaurants, entertainment, public transport, etc but it doesn't add up for me.  It's like in its recent renaissance it just plopped down the things it wanted but didn't dvelop them so it feels soulless to me.  It was very affordable 5 years ago when we moved.  It has gotten more expensive but I don't think it is changing as rapidly as we hoped.   Coming from CA it was nice because it looks more like a European city with small narrow cobblestone streets, lots of stone and brick construction, etc.  Oh yeah it is very corrupt, yeah yeah I know all cities have a level of corruption but Philadelphia really takes the cake, at least here in the US.

The real problem, if there is one, is that it is large geographically and only about 20% of the city is nice and has interesting things to do.  About 20% more is okay and really about 60% is extreme poverty and very depressing.  It is less than 2 hours drive to New York City and less than 3 from Washington DC.  That seems to be its biggest selling points, not something about itself as a city.  I spend more time in NYC than in Philadelphia.  I'm getting older and don't want to wait for it to become the city we want it to be, if it even does that.  We'd rather move to a place that we like now so we can live the way we want now.

[tech-teacher]

[quote user="Just Katie "]

Too many Welsh decendents live there RH[:-))]

[/quote]

It must be an inside joke.  According to my mother, we are Welsh.  My name is Owen after all, named after my great grandfather, not the black knight, at least I don't think I was named after the black knight.

[Llantony]

Too many Welsh descendents - isn't that Patagonia?

Anyway, what's wrong with us people lucky enough to have Welsh ancestors?

Yes, I know you were only joking, so am I.