value for money,old or new

[boris]

this question is directed at those of you who are looking to buy but have not yet bought though everyone's opinion is welcome. i believe it would be possible to buy a new build bungalow/house in a rural or semi rural location for under 150.000 euro with a good standard of finish and on a nice manageable plot with three /four bedrooms.  now with your average habitable property of a similar size costing about the same and then probably needing decorating ,new kitchen and bathroom etc would not new build be the way to go,i have discussed this with a french immo friend with a view to him marketing some new builds for me but he says that english want stone property with caracter and whilst i agree that what he says was true when it was possible to buy for 50.000euro and probably renovate for the same this is now not the case. i recently helped put a roof on a barn that cost over 26.000 euro to complete and that was before any window openings were made or the inside was touched and i believe these costs are now prohibitive ,it would be possible to do a new build and include caracter features like real oak beams and some internal stone work etc and not go much over a 150.000 budget though as common sense would dictate the final cost would inevitably be reflected in the specification.so my question,with a budget of say 120.000 -180.000 euro would you go quality new build where you can have some input on finish and walk straight in or old house with the inevitable costly renovations

[hastobe]

Personally a new build was never an option for us - whatever the price differential. 

Hastobe

[Val_2]

We spend our lives here dealing with people buying old to renovate and to be honest I wonder why half of them bother sometimes. It starts as a dream of an eventual character property in the old granite with a couple of outbuildings etc but can quickly turn into a bottomless money pit as more and more problems surface once work begins,usually out of years of neglect by the former owners. The one good advantage of buying a new build is the yearly or whenever you do it, maintenance - e.g. repointing,re-varnishing/staining wooden windows etc,replacing old tiles or having to replace completely after a few years of ownership, it really never stops, yet you don't see new houses here having all this work done do you? I'm not sure about the figures you quote though as a lot depends on where you want to build and the size of the property. In my particular commune,prices just for a plot of land have trebled in the past ten years and new regulations regarding new build have come into force regarding exactly where you can or cannot build. I would have thought you could get a comfortable pavillion for such a budget in a non-touristy or seaside region.

[hastobe]

We bought our old house in France knowing exactly what we were

doing.  The house we have in the UK is 400 years old and we have

rebuilt half of it (making it split level), rewired, put in tanking,

slate floors, new bathrooms, new kitchen, sand blasted internal beams

and fireplaces etc etc, dug out and planted up nearly an acre of

garden.  It was damned hard work - but I have absolutely no

regrets.  I definitely would not live in a new build - either in

the UK or France

Hastobe

[YCCMB]

I agree totally with hastobe. Our English house is about 20 years newer than our French house, (both early 19th century, so not that old really) and new build would never be an option for us in either country. Maybe if price (i.e. total cost of having a perfectly-finished house with all mod cons) is a primary consideration, then people will consider new build  as preferable to old. However, some people really want old properties and I don't think they would be tempted by a new property in spite of renovation costs.

[Anton Redman]

VFM almost certainly new unless you have the skills and enjoy the work yourself. However I was pretty uninpressed with the cramped turney designs we looked at. Unless I start valuing my time I suspect we will be well on the right side with the current house.However if I was paying anybody for the majority of work it would be a different mattter. Also if I ever tumble out of bed less than eager to complete today,s jobs them my views may change.

Liked the Edwardien house we had in the UK, also liked the 30s Maisonette which preceded it. Loved out first French house but it was too small for a main house. Would have no problemns with a new house but have not seen many I have liked once you work through how much space there is with furniture in, full size beds and doors on the bedrooms.

[boris]

i agree with what anton says about size,but surely the idea of building a one off on a single plot is that you can make the house as big as you like,i do not think it is all that more expensive to build a 200m2 as a 160m2 yes there are cost implications but they are not that great and i speak from experience as one who has built his own house in the past,part of the pleasure was making sure the kitchen was big with a dining area(that was my particular want at the time) making sure the master bedroom was en-suite having a big lounge etc etc the list goes  it's then all down to taste.i think stone houses do have far more character but unfortunately you have to spend a fortune in their renovation and upkeep,

[vervialle]

I would not swap my 300 year old house in France for any new build, yes they are a money pit, but I have a massive wonderful farmhouse kitchen that is wonderfully cool in the summer and warm in the winter because the heat cannot escape through the metre thick walls, everything we do, I know I am preserving a piece of history for future generations, we had the bread oven restored and everybody in the village was thrilled, they said if french people had bought it they would have knocked it down, they tell us stories of how all the bread for the village was cooked in my house,I look at it in the summer when we sit out and wonder at how they built it.At the end of the day its what it does for you, I have a real love affair with the house.Incidently I have a 500 year old house in the U.K which is half timbered, also a money pit but its a central focal point of our village, its not a patch on our stone farmhouse in France it is freezing in winter, we have to have the heating on 24 hours a day,I would give anything to have our stone farmhouse here.I think new builds serve a purpose but the history of a property does it for me,I hope I have preserved a little bit of french history for future generations to enjoy.

[retread]

Dear Boris

After recent events around the Northern Dordogne an emigre developer would have a hard time gaining any sales <<off Plan>>.

I have researched the relative costs of new builds vs renno's with the help of various builders in the UK (personal friends) who specialise in barn conversions here in the south west of England and the cost can be double for a renno to achieve the same standard of comfort in the house.

Our local planning officers are appalled by the number of old barn structures that "fall down" at the start of a development to the extent that they are investigating every occurrance and in some cases revoking the permission where they suspect any skulduggery

In addition with a new build you can build what you want where you want it, a renno is invariably a compromise.

As for costs,for a Romantic local Style, you should budget for Circa €1600 per m2 for the bare shell add on Kitchens and central heating plus garages and Terrace and of course the land. And somewhat less for the homes the French build for themselves.

On the plus side you will have no large bills for ten years and the insulation will allow for much lower fuel costs. 100mm of polystyrene will be a lot warmer than a metre of granite.

I was talking to a selection of French people discussing the proposal (plan A) and came away with a feeling that they could not understand our preoccupation with internal space especially in the bedrooms and even two internal W.C's seemed to be excessive, yes a largish kitchen and living room with the obligatory wood burner is good especially in the winter but isnt life here about living al fresco. C'est different en France n'est ce pas?  So back to the drawing board (plan B). 

France is for living not DIY.

[Monika]

Val put it quite rightly, she wonders sometimes why people bother, and the thought has crossed my mind several times renovating our barn. But then again, once it is finished we have a virtually brand new home with old walls but insulated to the latest specs and we have conserved a little bit of history for us and eventually other people to live in for many years to come.

[Harley]

For us the costs made the decision.  We bought a small old house (about 100yrs) when we first came over but  with growing children it was just too small for the long term  The type of house we would have been able to buy with our budget would have needed an awful lot more work to make it a comfortable home although I would have loved an older house.  With a young family and the need to work, taking on a renovation project was not an option, but neither was buying a completed new build.  We have looked around at the going rate for a new build which has been lived in and the price difference is quite large.  We have bought our own land and are going through a regional building company and will hopefully be in our new home by Christmas (this year).