Ethical Dilema

[Goonz]

First off let me say i have been a fairly long time stalker as i have been doing my background research on buying in France for about 6 months and having finally found somewhere i feel at home with in these wonderful forums i am ready to come out of the shadows.

My question is simple, and i hop enot too controversial.

Narrrowed my search down to half a dozen properties and now planning a couple of days of visitation to eliminate the dead wood and progress towards something more formal.

Several of the houses i have found are advertised on different websites at different prices as well as private sale at a reduced price.

Having requested lost of details over the months and garnered a considerable collection of particulars, should i feel compelled to go and find the original specifications from one of the agents or just deal direct with the vendor? The commissions involved as an 'introductory fee' seem high for what amounts to a cut and paste exercise from one site to the next, doubly so when the vendors did most of the original preparation. And whilst i have no issue with rewarding soembody for a job well done, i do have with money for old rope.....the horns of my ethical dilema.

Comments please.

PS I am not as evil as this all makes me sound, more confused as the the niceties

[Cassis]

If a place is advertised in several places there's no reason why you shouldn't approach through the cheapest source.  Only underhand if you see an ad with an agent or notaire then approach the vendor directly.

Phil

[sclarke2208]

Hi Goonz,

I , too have seen properties that are advertised with more than one agent at differing prices. I wouldn't mind if it were a small amount but two of the properties were advertised at over 20,000 euros more than the 'original' advert. Cassis is right and I would do as she recommends , find the cheaper agent and go for it.

roseysan

[Just Katie]

Yes but be careful because the more expensive ones could be inclusive of agents fees.  I would therefore start from the bottom and ask if there are any fees to be added. Also, don't forget notaires fees.  I think if my memory serves me right notaires fees are 5% of the price and will in most cases not be included.

[Unknown]

Hello

We paid 7% to the notaire a year ago.

[Cassis]

7% includes registration fees etc - the notaire only keeps 2%.

[Will]

I would not advise paying anything up front, in terms of 'introduction fees' or anything else. Go straight to the agent dealing with the sale in France. If the house is with several agents at different prices, check just what is included - not only fees, but outbuildings, land etc. This can sometimes vary.

There is no reason in theory why you should not go to the vendor direct if you can identify the house, though the seller may have exclusive mandats with certain agents so you will end up paying fees anyway. However, if you have been shown the house first by an agent then it is not done to try and bypass the agent subsequently, you can end up either being chased for fees or causing a lot of bad feeling.

I would advise that if you are not totally familiar with the French house buying system, which is completely different from the English process, you will probably not regret using a good agent who can guide you through everything and smooth out the many potential obstacles. The fees may seem high, but can be money well spent. Such agents are probably not the cheapest, but not necessarily the dearest either- try to go by recommendation. Do avoid the British-based agents if you can and go direct to the agent in France.

[ali-cat]

I agree with Will about the agent guideing you through the buying process, especially if they are able to help with translation etc.  If you aren't familiar with the French system of buying a property, it would be money very well spent - for peace of mind.  It's what we intend to do, very soon (I hope!!).

[Krill]

I think the agents here are far too expensive and if you use a good english speaking notair they will help with most things you will need, NEVER pay anything up front to English agents would be my advice

[Cassis]

Are we perhaps in danger of talking at cross purposes here?  The term 'agent' seems to be being used in some places to mean 'estate agent' and elsewhere as a 'property assist' type agent. 

I know that the latter can seem expensive but some people find them reassuring if they've never done this sort of thing before and feel out of their depth with the system and the language.  Or if they've got more than a few bob to spare and can't be fagged to do the legwork themselves.  They usually sort out bank accounts, water, telephones, electricity etc., as well as the purchase process, so it's not the sort of service you get from a notaire, no matter how helpful. 

Or you can always pick the brains of people on the forum, as long as you don't mind having to unravel contradictory responses!

Phil

[Will]

But a good 'estate agent' will do all that a hand-holder, property assist agent, or whatever you want to call it does, and not charge any extra for it. The crunch is that if all 'estate agents' in France actually did something to earn their fees then that other type of agent would be totally superfluous. Notaires, too, vary considerably in their helpfulness. As a general rule, don't expect them to speak English (though some do) or to provide any information unless you specifically ask for it.

[Cassis]

Totally agree on the estate agents front, Will.  If they all provided such a service then all would be rosy.  Problem is, it seems a lot of them either can't be bothered or can't see why they should provide these 'extras' to the buyer - even if it is the buyer who pays their fees.  At least that's the feedback we've had from housebuyers who've stayed with us.  Maybe it's just the estate agents round here who are rubbish.

Phil

[hastobe]

We are buying through the notaire immobilier (so paying a significantly lower fee than had we bought through an agent) - nevertheless our notaire has said they will arrange all the utilities etc - they even offered to help with tax returns or any other problems we might have.  I think it all depends on the agent.  As with everything - some are great - some well....

Kathie

[Translator]

I read your dilema. I bought my property from an estate agent and I

wouldn't have found it alone. But if you have found a property alone

(or with a little personal investigation) and if you speak and write a

little French then use it and do as you'd do back home. Go visit the

owners, you will find the French very helpful in general (moreso when

you talk directly than by phone or letter) and not pushy sellers at

all. Besides you don't have to agree to anything on the spot. Then if you feel the need for some extra security visit the estate

agents (French or Foreign) or Notary to see if they have the property listed and see for yourself what extras they are offering for their

commission.  Sometimes, like for me your 'dream' can't be found alone but if it can, go for it, you'll still have to go through a Notary (make your first visit before signing anything) so s/he will make sure that the sale is 'legal' and officially recorded, but you'll have to settle on a price by yourself.

[bakerino]

It was not my intention to BUT I bought privately simply because after looking at all the properties my agent had shown me and not liking any of them, I just happened to go past a house and see a cardboard sign AV.  I  just rung the number arranged a visit and it went forward from there. My French is only basic school French and the chap spoke no english but we got through  the whole process although luckily the notaire I chose spoke some English and was very helpfull.  Im not necessarily advocating this but it worked for me.  As for all the utilities that was simple with the use of the internet and forums such as these.  Im sure most agents earn their money but know wants to pay for something if they can manage it themselves, obviously each set of circumstances is different.

If you use an estate agent I would advise a local French one who know the area and can sometimes come up with properties through word of mouth.

 

Good luck