cheminot Posted March 6, 2006 Share Posted March 6, 2006 Our neighbour, whose house is situated at the bottom of our garden has asked if we would swap a piece of our garden adjacent to his house so that he can get vehicular access, for a separate piece of land that he owns at the side of our property. The idea being that apparently 'land swaps' do not attract the fees and taxes that buying the land from us would. We are minded to agree to this provided we do not incur any costs ourselves.Has anyone had any experience of this and the processes involved?Cheminot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teamedup Posted March 6, 2006 Share Posted March 6, 2006 Ask your notaire. And good for you if you can just do this, but as there are usually a lot of taxes involved in buying land and registering it, then I for one would be surprised if this is a freebie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stocky Posted March 6, 2006 Share Posted March 6, 2006 Nothing is free for a start the Notaire fees will be about 1,300€ plus the cost of changing the boundries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheminot Posted March 6, 2006 Author Share Posted March 6, 2006 [quote user="Stocky"]Nothing is free for a start the Notaire fees will be about 1,300€ plus the cost of changing the boundries.[/quote]Have you done this and incurred these fees as a result?cheminot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teamedup Posted March 6, 2006 Share Posted March 6, 2006 We bought a tiny bit of land from neighbours and paid next to nothing for it. Our bill was around 1000 euros, haven't got the papers to hand so that may be a bit out. It wasn't cheap though. The notaire got little of it, most was taxes and land registry etc etc. If these swaps are free then your notaire would know. Best to ask the notaire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tresco Posted March 8, 2006 Share Posted March 8, 2006 Cheminot, under these circumstances it has to be worth it to your neighbour to pay all (or the vast majority) of the fees. Make sure you know whats being written into it all though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheminot Posted March 8, 2006 Author Share Posted March 8, 2006 One thing I am certain about regarding this issue is that if it is going to cost me anything it is not going to happen!After all I dont need either piece of land but will accomodate my neighbour if possible. I have been advised by my solicitor that the notaire must be involved as it will require changes to the cadastral plan but whether the resulting fees will be as high as with a purchase I have yet to find outI am going to my house at the end of the month and will give an update when I return.Cheminot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teamedup Posted March 9, 2006 Share Posted March 9, 2006 I will be interested if you manage to get this done for free, please let us know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stocky Posted March 9, 2006 Share Posted March 9, 2006 [quote user="cheminot"][quote user="Stocky"]Nothing is free for a start the Notaire fees will be about 1,300€ plus the cost of changing the boundries.[/quote]Have you done this and incurred these fees as a result?cheminot[/quote]No experiance of a free swap but we did buy our neighbouring 4,000 sq mtrs at a pitance and had a dispute with the Notair about his fees and he showed me the official set of fees, the only variable was the smaller fees of the Notaire, the majority was in taxes. Fees nearly cost the same as the land. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheminot Posted March 9, 2006 Author Share Posted March 9, 2006 Yes this is the interesting point I think, I know there will be a fee for the geometre to measure the land and amend the cadastral plan but the big question will be whether the government wants to tax this kind of transaction, and if so, how they go about it.Cheminot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BJSLIV Posted March 9, 2006 Share Posted March 9, 2006 if so, how they go about itEasyTo be legal the transfer has to be handled by a Notaire. He knows the price and levies the taxes accordingly. If you substitute a lower value then the authorities can impute a true market value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheminot Posted March 10, 2006 Author Share Posted March 10, 2006 [quote user="BJSLIV"]if so, how they go about itEasyTo be legal the transfer has to be handled by a Notaire. He knows the price and levies the taxes accordingly. If you substitute a lower value then the authorities can impute a true market value.[/quote]Yes, but the point is that there is no price, both pieces of land are about the same size and value.Cheminot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BJSLIV Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 In most places there is a going rate for land whether it be agricultural or building land and I'm sure that the notaire could suggest a value.Unfortunately the value won't really have that much bearing on the bill.Think of a number, lets say 1000 euros per plotTypical notaires bill 536 euros per party.OK So you think thats too much, what about a notional value of 1 Euro per plotTypical notaire fees 437 Euros per party.I think these relatively low figures may reflect the change which came in on 2006 which reduced the stamp duty on minor transactions, previously the minimum was typically 1000 Euros.You can always play around using any of the online calculators on French websites. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheminot Posted March 11, 2006 Author Share Posted March 11, 2006 Dont dispute what you are saying, but as no-one is selling any land, just exchanging it, the value doesnt necessarily come into it, but as I said before, as it is of no concern to me whether this exchange takes place or not then any fees of any kind will have to be borne by my neighbour or the exchange will not take place.Will post again when I find out more.Cheminot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheminot Posted July 3, 2006 Author Share Posted July 3, 2006 An update on this subject. We have just spent two relaxing (not always) weeks at our house in france. Have seen the neighbour who wants to swap a piece of our land for his. He has had a visit from the geometre who has quoted him 650 euros to change the cadastral plan and register the exchange. In addition there are notaires fees which he has yet to find out about. I get the feeling that he is starting to go off the idea now!cheminot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitty Posted July 4, 2006 Share Posted July 4, 2006 I'm a chartered surveyor and have dealt with a large number of access issues.Whether in France or in the UK, land for vehicular access is worth more than land for garden use. It would be perfectly normal for you to expect him to pay for all your costs. In addition, you should receive a larger piece of land.Watch out that the access is for only his house and not for any 'back land' that can be developed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex Forum Admin Posted July 4, 2006 Share Posted July 4, 2006 'ransom strips' is what we used to call them....[;-)] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheminot Posted July 4, 2006 Author Share Posted July 4, 2006 [quote user="Forum Admin"]'ransom strips' is what we used to call them....[;-)][/quote]Hardly a ransom strip. The present situation is that he has pedestrian right of access along the bottom of our garden from his property to a well so this part of the garden is of no use to us. He has vehicular access to his back garden from a lane which runs down the side but it is awkward to get into. What he is asking for is exchange a piece of his land at the side of our house (not joined to the piece he wants) for a strip 4 m wide to allow him to get a vehicle to his back garden without using the lane. We are in a restricted development area (ie no new building is allowed) so even if he had the space he could not develop it. Given these circumstances it is no wonder he is trying to avoid the high fees of a purchase. We do not want the land at the side and would happily sell him the strip he wants but that of course would generate the very fees he is trying to avoid.cheminot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poppy Posted July 4, 2006 Share Posted July 4, 2006 For years we have been in a restricted development area, definitely zone naturalle. However last October the land was rezoned and now all the land around us is for sale with a CU. The area is very remote and the last place on earth you would expect this to happen,but it has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheminot Posted July 4, 2006 Author Share Posted July 4, 2006 In our case the restriction is due to an 'ancient monument' being within 500metres which is an old chateau, but also all the land immediately around us is owned by Hennessy Cognac on which they have just planted new vines so we are feeling fairly safe from new development for the moment.cheminot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athene Posted July 4, 2006 Share Posted July 4, 2006 Hi Cheminot,we have been trying to buy some land for almost three years. First there was a delay to get the CUs. This was applied for by the geometre.It costs 800 euros. The seller said that he had permission for two houses of 250 square metres footprints. The permission has come through as one house of 150 square metres footprint. The local mayor says that it does not matter what the permission is for as he will allow the two houses to be built. Our notaire has said very cunningly she would like to see this in writing! So far no letter from the mayor has arrived! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BJSLIV Posted July 4, 2006 Share Posted July 4, 2006 This was applied for by the geometre.It costs 800 eurosI hope he did lots of other work for his fee, as the CU costs nothing and the application process is relatively straightforward. When we bought a plot outside our village, the estate agent applied, and it was treated as part of his normal activity and fees; which were themselves probably not much more than 800 euros.Incidentally in many cases the CU specifies the size of property that can be built based on a set ratio of building surface area to plot size. It may well be this that has restricted the size of the property, and if that is the case, you may have a long wait before you receive anything from the maire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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