Are Brico-Depot's Gas "Combination" Boilers any good?

[Sarahd]

Hello everyone.

As per my earlier post I am looking into buying a new Gas Combination boiler to replace our old one which has now finally boiled its last.

I was planning to buy one of Brico Depot's gas boilers made by "Lamborghini". The model is the basic 25 kw combination boiler to provide central heating and hot water. I don't need a high output boiler for the central heating as we mainly use our natural log fires backed up by an advanced paraffin heater to heat our old house. The central heating & radiators are only used as a back-up during very cold weather as gas has proved very expensive in the past.

Two plumbers I have obtained quotes from have warned me off the Lamborghini boilers telling me they do not have a good track record and are unreliable. Does anyone know if this is true?

Also one plumber has recommended the marque "Atlantique" as being reliable and better value than the more expensive makes like "Saunier Duval" (Saunier Duval was the make of our old boiler that had lasted for 15 years). Are "Atlantique" boilers any good?

Many thanks for any guidance in advance.

Thanks, Sarah

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

    

[Chas]

Before you rush out and buy one have a look at the last three replies on you earlier post.

[Sarahd]

Thanks Chas. I do intend to obtain quotes & carefully verify the situation re. the credit before buying anything. Always pays to do this in France from my past experience.

Nevertheless, tax credit notwithstanding, can anyone advise me if the Lamborghini chaudieres from Brico-Depot are any good? Does anyone have experience of these?

I'm trying to view this from overall cost - if to get the credit I have to pay a high cost for a "proffesional" quality boiler this will/might cancel out the advantage of the tax credit. I am trying to look at all angles before I buy anything.

Can anyone help me on the question of the Brico-Depot boilers?

Many thanks in advance.

P.S. sorry wrong icon in my title - it was meant to be a "smilie"!

 

[Lassie]

I too was getting excited at the thought of owning a Lamborghini, even if it was only a boiler, and it was half the price in Castorama of the boiler quoted for by the plumber.  When I said I would buy it myself, he pointed out

1.  Lamborghinis are rubbish and are always breaking down

2.  Castorama do not stock spare parts 

3.  There would be no tax credit

and

4.  neither he, nor any other plumber in the district would come out to mend a Lamborghini or a Leblanc bought by the customer.  So with that degree of sales patter, or blackmail, we are going with his suggested make.  The 25% tax credit does reduce the cost somewhat but we are still talking about an extra 1000 euros for his recommendation.

Are we mad, or prudent?.

[Anton Redman]

Probably prudent rather than mad.

I might have had a look round the Internet to see if I could source spare parts. I might also ask at Bricodepot or Castorama how long it took them to get parts it. In contrast to B & Q they do have an aftersales desk which works.

I might hand around Broco Depot till I met a French plumber / seller of mickey mouse watches who was buying one.

Lamborghini do good tractors and wine if you just want the badge.

Hard choice - for fridges, washing machines I take the view that if I cannot fix them in an hour then a new one is the best cure. Bit harder on a centrla heating boiler.

[Sarahd]

Thanks very much for your replies - as I suspected I am not the only potential plumber's customer who has been warned off Lamborghini boliers. Would be very interesting to hear from someone who has gone the budget route and actually bought one of these boilers and has been running it for a year or so.

I think maybe we have all been talked out of this by local plumbers.................................................

Anyway, like others I will probably plump for a more expensive make and pay the extra. I trawled the French internet but could find no reviews or customer feedback from anyone as to the reliability of Lamborghini boilers. Surely someone (poor unsuspecting soul?) out there must have bought one? If there is no feedback one wonders whether the purchased boilers are running well without any problems or have the owners shot themselves in disgust?![8-)] Would be interesting to find out.

 

 

 

[Mike1958]

[quote user="Lassie"] The 25% tax credit does reduce the cost somewhat [/quote]

I am currently looking at a new boiler (Viessmann) and new hot water tank combination which will come in at somewhere near 8000 euro. My question is:

The house is only a second residence at the moment and is not let or rented therefore I do not pay any form of tax, however can I still claim a tax credit for works completed this year after this financial year is over?

Regards,

Mike

[derf]

" I do not pay any form of tax, however can I still claim a tax credit for works completed this year after this financial year is over?"

AFAIK you can only claim a rebate against any French Income tax that you may pay and not an outright cash payment to you, but if it's supplied and fitted by a registered artisan, you may be able to offset the cost of it against CGT if you sell your maison secondaire in the future.

[BJSLIV]

If you are resident and paying income tax in France then you should be able to claim the rebate on a professionally installed heating system even in a maison secondaire.

As regards the Lamborghini boilers even the French are divided as to their quality. The main problem seems to be availablity of parts .

http://www.cyberbricoleur.com/?r=affiche_le_message&qf=9&p=1&m=212731&tread=79080&cp=1

I think from a purely practical point of view if Mr X installs a well known boiler he will know how to get the parts, as will any other competent plumber.

If in the middle of winter, with systems breaking down all over the place, the repairer needs to work out where to get the parts, from some uinknown supplier with whom he has had no previous contact, trade account etc etc.it is bound to take a little bit longer..............

 

 

[chenauds]

As a clarification, what 'breaks down' in a Lamborghini boiler? The boiler is just a cast iron heat exchanger. More likely to break down is the bruleur which is not manufactured by the boiler manufacturer or the electrical controller. Maybe the names of the burner and controller manufacturers might be more useful in identifying the culprit(s)  for the breakdown.

[Sarahd]

Thank you for the additional replies which are very, very interesting.

Would just point out that when the English say "boiler" this is obviously the collective name for the device in question which incorporates internally the heat exchanger and "boiler" component. I fully take on board your comment that any particular brand of boiler is only as good as the quality and make of its internal individual components. Certainly back in England we used a boiler from a lesser known manufacturer who essentially used the same internal components as better known and more expensive manufacturers. The same concept as buying a SEAT car as opposed to a Volkswagen or Audi. The engine & many other essential components being the same.

 I had a read on the French website and yes opinion certainly is somewhat divided. Basically it would seem the quality of the Lamborghini boilers is essentially good, particularly for the money, and in reality the problem seems to be the higher difficulty and delay in sourcing replacement parts combined with, surprise, surprise, the reluctance of many French plumbers, with a long association with French boiler manufacturers, to fit them for you. This does not greatly surprise me under the circumstances.

 My main question coming out of this is what about the availability of Boiler Technicians in France who can or are prepared to do repairs on an italian boiler. I intend to send a fax to Lamborghini in France and pose this question to them. Certainly in the U.K. I'm sure this would not be as big a problem but I do think that in France there is perhaps more resistance to foreign companies competing with the more local competition............perhaps I'm being unfair but my gut feeling is that there is some truth in this.

Anyway, thanks so much for your replies. This has set me thinking again about whether it is worth paying double for a French boiler...............................................[^o)]

 

 

 

[chenauds]

I have a Lamborghin boiler with a french (Deville) bruleur which I bought at leroy Merlin and installed the CH system myself. Both work fine together and a plumber who I called out to set up the fuel pump pressure had no reservations about working on my set up. The bolier and bruleur combined came to about 800 Euros.I suspect that any plumber who installs a CH system will go for the top of the range equipment since he has to guarantee the work for 10 years. You will find a limited number of bruleurs and they seem to be fitted to a wide range of boilers.

[Sarahd]

That's excellent feedback chenauds. Thank you.

I note what you are saying about the plumber having to gurantee his work for 10 years. Presumably his gurantee does not, however, extend to the boiler unit itself (i.e. the boiler unit purchased from say Brico-Depot as a single item of equipment).

Logically the plumbers' gurantee should only encompass the external plumbing connections etc. that he performed and was responsible for?

If I go ahead and buy a Lamborghini boiler I may have to use this argument to convince the plumber to do the work.

Also have you had to order spares? Have you any idea how easy or hard it is to source spares?

Does Lamborghini have a French office you can do this through?

Do Leroy Merlin still sell these boilers? Are they the same ones as sold by Brico-Depot?  

Have you ever had to have your boiler repaired? Is there an approved list of Boiler specialists who can do repairs and who are authorised by Lamborghini!

 

Thank you so much for your help & advice which is greatly valued? [:)]

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Deimos]

My local plumber is decidedly unhappy about working on my

boiler.  It’s a Viessman (high quality,

very expensive), but he did not install it. 

Whenever he visits he points out failings in the installation – so I ask

him to correct them and he just never get round to it.  He does not refuel, just never does it.

I guess plumbers vary any you will know how helpful your

local plumber is.

Ian

[chenauds]

The boiler itself is a fairly basic unit with a cast iron heat exchanger (like a radiator) with water running through it and the flame from the bruleur heating the outside there is usually a heat sensing thermostat which will be made by a control organisation and would be cheap to replace. The bruleur is more complex with electric eye flame sensor, electronic ignition pulse and an electronic control package, the one of the Deville bruleur is by a well know control manufacturer Landis & Gyr  established in the UK since 1896 and now world wide, so replacement should be easy to source. the only extra bit which will need replacing every year or two would be the gicleur(jet), a little brass nozzle which screws in to the blower nozzle ( about 10Euros each). Apart from old age causing the boiler to leak, not much can go wrong withion 10 years or so and problems with the burner should be easy to fix with replacement parts if you do it yourself but a plumber is more likely to replace the whole thing. In any event, it is unlikely that both the boiler and the bruleur would fail at the same time so, like a horse and cart, if the horse falls over, get a new horse or if the cart collapses, get a new cart! Don't have to replace both at the same time.

[chenauds]

I forgot to mention that I had a lot of help from 'Opel Fruit' when I was looking for and installing my system -  he has the same boiler/bruleur as me. I would highly recommend looking at his postings in this thread.

[Sarahd]

Thanks again for brilliant feedback chenauds. I'm very grateful to you.

I'm off to Leroy Merlin & Brico Depot tomorrow to check out the boilers on offer in more detail.

I'll attempt to get the boiler cover(s) off the display models so I can have a look inside and try to find out the make of the main internal components etc.

My husband is quite good mechanically and is quite confident that with care he can service and/or do basic repairs on the boiler himself. If the parts (the bruleur) etc.are U.K. made then should be quite easy to source replacement parts.

Fantastic! Thank you for your help.

 

I have read the thread by Opel Fruit with is very, very useful and gives great information. Bit of an asset to DIY'ers to say the least Mr Opel Fruit. Well I think we have made our decision and will go the budget / DIY route although will need to sweet-talk a local plumber just to do the installation.

This simply has to be the best way to go and all the dis-information from local French plumbers & boiler techniciens has fallen upon stoney ground I'm afraid. We're only on a budget and cannot afford to pay them collectively the extra. I think, hopefully, with some common sense and my husband's help we can make this work for ourselves and save some much needed money! I guess you pay your money and take your choice but if we can get 10 years or so out of the boiler it has to be a good option for us at the price.

Thanks again.[:)]  

 

 

[Anton Redman]

On extra point – the attached is a quote from page 101 of the Brico Depot Catalogue :

 

<< Chez Brico Depot la mise en service des chaudières est comprise dans le prix. Un professionnel réglera votre chaudière et vérifiera la conformité  de votre installation. Il confirme ainsi votre garantie. >>

 

Rough translation :

 

“ With Brico Depot  putting boilers into service is included in the price. A professional will check your boiler and will verify the conformity of your installation. This also confirms your guarantee. “

 

Therefore they must know plumbers who work with them

[Jc]

Plumbers!!Every professional we've ever employed looks at a previous man's work-quick drawing of breath-wouldn't have done it like that!!

[Sarahd]

lol! Thanks for the further support guys.

I too read the same thing in the Brico-Depot brochure - I think they must be talking about qualified Bolier Technicians perhaps rather than plumbers - ie. people who should be able to repair the boiler in the future if it goes wrong. I queried this at the Brico-Depot information desk and they confirmed that you would still have to find a qualified plumber to do the installation work itself. Afterwards the boiler technician approved by Lamborghini / Brico-Depot would pop round to verify and sign-off that the installation was safe and adhered to the necessary regulations etc.

I guess if I take the technician's details & phone number if at all needed he should be able to also help with repairs etc. in the future.

Anyway quite enjoying the challenge of sorting this out now and as I say hopefully we can also save some much needed cash by doing it this way. Thanks again everyone.[;)]

[BJSLIV]

My husband is quite good mechanically and is quite confident that with care he can service and/or do basic repairs on the boiler himself

Don't forget that there is a legal requirement to have boilers serviced by a professional once a year (Circulaire ministérielle du 9 août 1978)

[Sarahd]

Have to be honest I wasn't aware of that. Will take that into account.

Thanks for the info.

[Deimos]

[quote user="BJSLIV"]

Don't forget that there is a legal requirement to have boilers serviced by a professional once a year (Circulaire ministérielle du 9 août 1978)

[/quote]

Totally impossible to even get a plumber round on a year’s

notice for me.  I’ve a rust ridden pipe

about to burst.  Water board told me I

should get it fixed immediately as it is so bad.  This was before Christmas, yet I’ve only just managed to get a

plumber to even look at it (just look, not actually replace or fix anything)

next week.  The fact that he is coming round

to look within 3 months of several “urgent” calls is quite an achievement – I feel

quite proud of myself.

Ian