Bastet Posted February 8, 2006 Share Posted February 8, 2006 Hope this is the most appropriate forum to post this in.Today, after several weeks of waiting, we have had our Sauter cooker delivered. It is a double electic oven, gas hob range style, 100cm wide. When we ordered it, the suppliers were absolutely adamant that no extra space was required to be allowed at the sides between the appliance and the adjacent kitchen units, so we didn't, and built the kitchen leaving a 101cm gap for the cooker.Having now received the instructions, they state a gap of 2cm is required. At the risk of sounding terribly naive, are the adjacent units going to suffer from not having this gap - are the ovens likely to be so badly insulated? There is a ventilation space at the back of the cooker.Thanks in advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tresco Posted February 8, 2006 Share Posted February 8, 2006 I don't think it's going to be a problem. We bought our 100cm cooker as a stop gap measure when we first arrived. It cost only 150E, and we thought we would replace it quickly, but we got so used to it's retro feel - few funtions etc - and it still with us.Anyway, more to the point. At the price we paid I doubt whether there is any insulation at all, and 2 years on there is no damage to the units. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Payrac-man Posted February 8, 2006 Share Posted February 8, 2006 Hi,Sorry but yes they will suffer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Val_2 Posted February 8, 2006 Share Posted February 8, 2006 If the oven has a Pyrolise cleaning system installed, then it must be well insulated inside because the temperature gets so hot that you have to remove the oven trays for fear of damage. I had a Sauter (I won't say anymore on that subject) gas oven with ventilation at the back and it turned the wall above the back of the cooker brown with the fumes and grease that came out. My state of the art new Scholtès electric oven is completely self contained and fits tightly between the units but they never even get warm compared to the old ovens we have had before when the chipboard got very hot indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bastet Posted February 8, 2006 Author Share Posted February 8, 2006 Thanks for your opinions, albeit opposing! Assuming the worst, Payrac-man, do you think it would be possible to protect the sides of the units with anything, ie that metal backed insulating material? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bastet Posted February 8, 2006 Author Share Posted February 8, 2006 Hi Val_2,The 2 ovens are electric so I hope they don't produce the same effect your previous gas one did! I'm hoping that even though there is no integrated high temp cleaning system, being new and hopefully modern in design, they are as well insulated as your new Scholtes. I guess time will tell. My OH is extremely annoyed with the info we received and himself, for believing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deimos Posted February 8, 2006 Share Posted February 8, 2006 I’m noexpert but I would think it less an issue of insulation and more one ofallowing air movement (hot air rising and sucking in cold air) – hence therequirement for a gap.. I expect theidea is that this process will “remove the heat”. I would expect the gap at the back will make little difference tothe sides (my school physics from long ago).If it wereme I’d allow the gap as ovens get hot and wood does not get on well with thetemperatures involved.Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobc Posted February 8, 2006 Share Posted February 8, 2006 "Hi,"Sorry but yes they will sufferLive long and Prosper"What do you base this upon?If you are going to reply to questions then you should explain your answer.Most European ovens that are designed to be built-in to integralhousings have a clearance of between 1 and I,5mm between the exposedoven casing and the interior of the housing.I have installed dozens of built-in ovens that have functioned without any damage to the housings.Also double electric ovens that clients have brought from the UK whichI have installed into modified Lapeyre oven housings have workedperfectly.Free-standing range ovens have a far higher level of casing insulationthan built-ins. The ones that I have installed only have a 5mm spacebetween adjoining cabinets and function perfectly without any damage tothe adjoining cabinets.From experience with De Dietrich, Rosieres, etc, free standing range ovens, the sides remain cool in operation. Regards,Bob Clarke http://perso.wanadoo.fr/grindoux Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tresco Posted February 8, 2006 Share Posted February 8, 2006 I have installed dozens of built-in ovens that have functioned without any damage to the housings.The individual always has to make the choice in the end, but what Bobc says fits with my experience of all sorts of cookers (including the one I have now). If every house I went in had a filth catching gap round the cooker, i'm sure I would have noticed it before now, and scarpered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Payrac-man Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 Hi Bobc,This reply is toYOU. I based this on the fact the the instruction leaflet stated a gap was required.If it wasn't then why state that it was.What about house insurance in a worst case scenario? I know this highly unlikely but you never know. I have fitted many ovens and they vary considerably in installation requirements and I would NEVER install them contrary to manufacturers instructions.This all comonsense really Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Payrac-man Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 Hi Bastet,I've sent you a PM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyh4 Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 Since the manufacturer of your cooker has no idea where it is going to be installed, they have to work on the basis that the side may be totally exposed - ie no cupboard beside it. This would mean that they have to ensure that anyone coming into contact with the end cannot be injured = small child leaning against the end. I think we can be pretty certain therefore that the maximum wall temperature will be below 60°C and probably a lot less than that.Long term exposure of your units to that temperature may lead to discolouration, bubbling of the surface or even delamination of the surface (which you can't see all the while the cooker is installed). But I suspect it is to protect themselves against claims like this that they suggest the gap, not becuase you are about to burn your house down. Quality units are unlikely to suffer at these temperatures at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobc Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 "Hi Bobc,This reply is toYOU. I based this on the fact the the instructionleaflet stated a gap was required.If it wasn't then why state that itwas.What about house insurance in a worst case scenario? I know thishighly unlikely but you never know. I have fitted many ovens and theyvary considerably in installation requirements and I would NEVERinstall them contrary to manufacturers instructions.This all comonsense really" An interesting reply. Are you basing this upon an instruction manual that you have seen?The instruction manuals for De Dietrich, Smeg and Rosieres range ovensrequire zero clearance between the oven and base units. The onlyclearance is required between the top of the hob and adjoining wallunits if fitted.Obviously, clearance is required behind the oven for gas and electricalconnections - this is normally covered by an overhand at the back ofthe hob.As andyh4 has said, these ovens are often installed at the end of a runof base units and the casings would need to remain cool. Most qualitymanufacturers also provide ‘stay-cool’ doors.Are your comments based upon installing kitchen and appliancescommercially in France - if so then providing your details rather thanan alias would be useful.http://perso.wanadoo.fr/grindoux/kitchens.htmThe first kitchen on our page has a De Dietrich range oven installed with one side exposed - this remains cool in operation.Regards,Bob Clarkehttp://perso.wanadoo.fr/grindoux Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BJSLIV Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 The installation instructions for the De Dietrich Range Cooker (DCM390) stateshttp://www.dedietrich.co.uk/pdf/dcm390.pdfIt must not be situated with either side closer than 20mm to a combustible wall or cupboard that is higher than the cooker.In case of installation between kitchen units, their sides must withstand a temperature of at least 90 degrees C.So they are talking about units above the top of the cooker, though to confuse things their illustaration then shows a gap of 20mm from top to bottom even though the worksurface is level with the cooker.Is it right to assume that MdF would resist temps of 90degrees?.On a UK kitchen website I did find an installation guide that said that one of the few regs governing UK installations was arequirement for a gap between cookers and base units, and they also mention 20mm. Who knows there may be an EU directive lurking somewhere.......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geranium Posted March 8, 2006 Share Posted March 8, 2006 Bob, could you give me some advice or your opinion please? I am having a kitchen made in Uk to send out to France. But I am going to buy the oven in France (so I have the guarantee etc). I have decided I really want one with a pyrolytic cleaning system and am considering choosing a Siemans one.What do I tell the carpenters about allowances around a built in oven with this system?Do you have any comments or advice on buying Siemens, or buying ovens in France in general? I am also going to get a microwave/combination oven to go above it. many thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobc Posted March 9, 2006 Share Posted March 9, 2006 "Bob, could you give me some advice or your opinion please? I amhaving a kitchen made in Uk to send out to France. But I am going tobuy the oven in France (so I have the guarantee etc). I have decided Ireally want one with a pyrolytic cleaning system and am consideringchoosing a Siemans one.What do I tell the carpenters about allowances around a built in oven with this system?Do you have any comments or advice on buying Siemens, or buyingovens in France in general? I am also going to get amicrowave/combination oven to go above it. many thanks!"Have sent you a PMKind regards,Bob Clarkehttp://perso.wanadoo.fr/grindoux Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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