Cost of renovations - URGENT

[BIG MAC]

My employers have an office in St Malo maybe I should ask......we are primarilly...loss adjusters........hssssss....boooooo.........

[Théière]

[quote user="toffeeman"]The UK uses ring final circuits but these will be phased out in favour of radials. The UK regs numbers are also directly relateable to other EU nations regs. You could try :- http://www.cenelec.eu/Cenelec/Homepage.htm or this site for further information :- http://www.voltimum.com/ and then select your country/language. We own properties in Germany and Hungary and the regs are also very very similar there too ...thats what harmonisation is !! If you need to work in France and you need decennial liability insurance you can get that in the UK as well, annually at around 3K or by project . [/quote]

Yes but has anyone actually told the French?

They are still in a world of their own with the full spectrum of coloured cable availaible and all sorts of funnies that Anton Redman manages to find.

Gosub, only a qualified company can connect to the main sewer, Yet another rule I've broken.[:$]

[Quillan]

[quote user="BIG MAC"]

Whoa up there!

If your house is damaged say by a chip pan fire and a smart loss adjuster spots that there is a problem with some other aspect of the property which may have led to the Insurer not taking your business then there is every chance that the claim will be repudiated and the policy voided. When entering the Insurance contract we are required to act in the 'Utmost good faith' (Uberimae fidei etc.) and declare all material facts which could be prejudicious.

Rarely is there a clause which details DIY as an exclusion to policy as to comply with the policy all works (DIY or not) should comply with that required by the standards and regulations of the day (Local  and Statutory authorities compliance clause in the UK)

If you have a burst pipe and its is the plumbers poor work which is proven to be the problem then your insurer may settle the claim but under subbrogation pursue the plumber on your behalf to recover costs as there is liability.

All a bit draconian but anyone who thinks an Insurer wont look to avoid a 200,000€ claim if it can be demonstrated clearly that there is good reason to do so would, in my opinion be a bit niave.

[/quote]

I really wish at times people would not say "well in the UK......." cause your not your in France.

Somewhere in the insurance policy it will say about work being carried out by approved tradesmen who 'carry' suitable insurance. That can be the owner, if he/she is approved to do the type of work they are doing. Its not going to specifically say if you renovate your house we won't insure you. Bit like the old French car insurance scam insuring peoples cars with English plates for years on end, till they have an accident of course but lets not go down that old route again. In my experience insurance companies (all over the world) are very happy to have their hand in your pocket but its a different matter when you try to put yours in theirs.

All I can say is that those that think I am wrong please feel free to burn their house down with incorrectly installed wiring and let us know how you get on, personally I won't take the risk as I strongly recommend others do the same. Sure I could wire my house if I wanted but I am not a French qualified electrician so to protect myself as best I can I use a French qualified electrician. Same with plumbing (something else that is different in France), happy to fit a waste for the washing machine but that's about it, I get a registered plumber in for the rest.

[BIG MAC]

I would remind those who are in any doubt that the principles of Insurance are the same in the UK as they are in France and that to have someone adjudged competent by whatever means is not sufficient if the work they turn out is not in compliance with the prevalent standards. Ergo a French Artisan who carries out dodgy work leaves you in the same position as doing it yourself  except if you can prove it you may establish liability / negligence.

My reference to local authorities UK clauses are merely a pointer to phrasing in UK Policies which will have a French EU equivalent.

For those 'competent' to do so there is always the option of installing your own containment and drawing in your own infrastructure cabling in accordance with standards and normes then having connection to tableau, terminations and testing carried out by a French Artisan.

[Quillan]

If anyone fancies testing this theory please feel free and let us know the results. Personally I don't think its worth the risk but there you go, I don't sell insurance.

French Artisans should have (by law I believe) their own insurance for their work which automatically I believe means they are approved by whatever relevant body for the work they do so your household insurance will go after them if it their work that caused the problem.

[BIG MAC]

Would it help if I worked for one of the Worlds largest loss adjusters? with offices throughout Europe?

I don't sell Insurance either but I have adjusted a few claims in my time.

[Quillan]

There is a good example of how insurance companies wriggle out of paying in another thread.

http://www.completefrance.com/cs/forums/1734610/ShowPost.aspx

[gosub]

"Gosub, only a qualified company can connect to the main sewer, Yet another rule I've broken."

What makes you think I care?[:D]

Post edited by the moderators.

Please do  not post messages which contain explicit language or vulgarities (whether written in French, English or any other language).

[BIG MAC]

It's a funny thing..you buy a car you read the write ups test drive it ponder for hours about the colour..will it derpreciate does it have the bells and whistles......

How many of us can state we have read our buildings insurance policy schedule?

One of the biggest investmentments we make yet we can't be bothered to read it....Then it's the Insurers fault that we didn't! 

We rail at the fates that led us to the worst Insurer on earth, it can't be our fault after all!

In truth if you understand your policies then you are in a far better bargaining position....ask the adjuster for their Insurer briefing notes..very few adjusters have the knowledge in their skull, they refer to Insurer's guidelines and very often don't get it right.

Don't whinge...negotiate would be my advice to those pursuing a contested claim.

And all the bile and vitriol on earth will not put money in your Bank quite the same way as referring the adjuster to their own rule book.

Amen

[Chancer]

In France, the adjustor (expert) is his own rule book, and it is always 100% correct and up to date

Or as one of my mentors Alex Orr used to say "I know that it is true as I have only just made it up" [:D]

I really would like to be a fly on the wall when someone trys to refer a French expert to their rule book.

[BIG MAC]

I have the advantage that I can ask a colleague to do that bit.

As one of my mentors Angus Ogg used to say a'hm aff doon ra offy fur a wee swallae,,,,,,

 

[toffeeman]

Sorry about the Cenelec link I forgot you needed an access key to check the regulations. Basically every reg in the UK is a BS number and EN number which directly relates to regs numbers in all EU states. Recently in the UK we changed to the 17th edition of the regs which is the biggest rules changes in over 35 years. Ring mains will be phased out, RCDs/Rcbos are mandatory for every circuit, flexes are allowed as fixed wiring etc etc which is all step one of total harmonisation. For instance the French regs and Uk regs are now more similar than you think a lot of our numbers now match the rest of Europes. In my opinion France always drags its heels and is always reluctant to conform to rules it had a hand in and signed up to. The biggest diference between the tradespeople across the two countries is to be and stay registered in the UK is hardwork and expensive but you can register in France and work unregulated (no trade bodies for customers protection) by having a pat testing one day course translated. I know someone who has done it and is now a forum electrical expert. With regard to the comment above that some poster would not trust a Part P registered person is bizarre. Part P ensures that unregulated people cannot undertake work in other peoples home. You will have trouble selling your UK home if you do not get the necessary certifications at every step. The comment regarding kitchen fitters is also misguided as they are only defined scope and can only alter electrical installations in connection with their main business. They also have to issue certificates which ultimately makes them liable FOR the whole installation ! Is that something they have thought through - I doubt it !! Eventually UK sparks will be licensed. Compare that with France where anybody can really do what they like.

. According to my French insurers earlier today you home insurance will only be invalidated if you remove the main suppliers disconnector.

Post edited by a moderator in accordance with the Code of Conduct

[John Sergant]

Thanks for all your input

 

The next shock, although not totally unexpected is the cost of the roof. . first quote has come in at 78 000€ !!

 

The roof is big – 375 sq mtrs and needs complete removal, new timbers and canal tiles.  Does this sound about right ?

[BIG MAC]

The next 'Big thing' may be harmonisation of competency checking and a standardisation in qualifications in preparation to have the European equivalent of CDM 2007 rolled out.

 

[oldgit72]

[quote user="Devon"]

For God's sake get a grip. It's cheaper to buy a house in good nick than to renovate. [:P]

[/quote]

 

What and buy someone elses 'handywork'!! We originally thought of doing this but after realising that we would probably finish up taking the places apart and THEN renovating, and paying more, we decided to cut out the middle man. I'd rather have my own DIY than taking apart someone elses.

[Quillan]

Not all houses are renovated by DIYers, the French tend to use tradesmen to do most of the work leaving them with painting and decorating although it has to be said some of their colour schemes can be a weird. Likewise not all those that renovate themselves do a bad job. I didn't go down the renovating route because its not for the feint hearted and you really have to understand the French regs it seems. Time is also a major consideration especially with French builders for things like roofs and major alterations. It can become very stressful.

I you really are happier doing 'your own thing' then why not buy a plot and a kit house. I have seen some really nice ones over the last few years. You can get 5 bedroom ones from Scotframe for as little as £59k to name but one. There are loads of companies now producing kits not just in the UK either and there are designs to meet most peoples tastes. Most of them can be 'adapted' in manufacture to meet the requirements of the country in which they will be erected. My next house will be, I hope, a kit type house. I would go this route because of using wood and the the other high tech stuff to make the place far more environmentally friendly. Not because I am an environmentalist but because they are incredibly cheap to run and when I retire I don't want to spent my savings on running my home.

[Devon]

[quote user="oldgit72"][quote user="Devon"]

For God's sake get a grip. It's cheaper to buy a house in good nick than to renovate. [:P]

[/quote]

 

What and buy someone elses 'handywork'!! We originally thought of doing this but after realising that we would probably finish up taking the places apart and THEN renovating, and paying more, we decided to cut out the middle man. I'd rather have my own DIY than taking apart someone elses.

[/quote]

 

Why on earth would anyone want to buy a shonky DIY bodged house, messed up by someone who thinks buying a wheelbarrow and paintbrush makes them a builder? Buy a proffesionally renovated one or recently constructed house. Easy really.

[Alex H]

[quote user="Devon"][quote user="oldgit72"][quote user="Devon"]

For God's sake get a grip. It's cheaper to buy a house in good nick than to renovate. [:P]

[/quote]

 

What and buy someone elses 'handywork'!! We originally thought of doing this but after realising that we would probably finish up taking the places apart and THEN renovating, and paying more, we decided to cut out the middle man. I'd rather have my own DIY than taking apart someone elses.

[/quote]

 

Why on earth would anyone want to buy a shonky DIY bodged house, messed up by someone who thinks buying a wheelbarrow and paintbrush makes them a builder? Buy a proffesionally renovated one or recently constructed house. Easy really.

[/quote]

Why do you think the word 'professional' makes someone a builder? [Www]

[Devon]

[quote user="Tandem_Pilot"][quote user="Devon"][quote user="oldgit72"][quote user="Devon"]

For God's sake get a grip. It's cheaper to buy a house in good nick than to renovate. [:P]

[/quote]

 

What and buy someone elses 'handywork'!! We originally thought of doing this but after realising that we would probably finish up taking the places apart and THEN renovating, and paying more, we decided to cut out the middle man. I'd rather have my own DIY than taking apart someone elses.

[/quote]

 

Why on earth would anyone want to buy a shonky DIY bodged house, messed up by someone who thinks buying a wheelbarrow and paintbrush makes them a builder? Buy a proffesionally renovated one or recently constructed house. Easy really.

[/quote]

Why do you think the word 'professional' makes someone a builder? [Www]


[/quote]

 

'Proffesional' describes someone who knows what they are doing and cares about their work and reputation. The word is abused a lot nowadays admittedly [:)]

[BIG MAC]

'Proffesional' describes someone who knows what they are doing and cares about their work and reputation. The word is abused a lot nowadays admittedly

Professional (when spelt correctly) describes an activity carried out by a person for recompense.

White van man is therefore a 'professional' as is Mr Harris Outofjeanz the botch builder.

IMHO The standard of works should never be determined by the persons fiscal status as by the skill care and experience used to deliver them.

[Devon]

[quote user="BIG MAC"]

'Proffesional' describes someone who knows what they are doing and cares about their work and reputation. The word is abused a lot nowadays admittedly

Professional (when spelt correctly) describes an activity carried out by a person for recompense.

White van man is therefore a 'professional' as is Mr Harris Outofjeanz the botch builder.

IMHO The standard of works should never be determined by the persons fiscal status as by the skill care and experience used to deliver them.

[/quote]

So if I pay someone to go shopping for me they are a profesional ? I think not. I suppose someone could describe themselves as a profesional white van driver: for what its worth.

I think you will find profesional covers: skill, care and experiance to deliver good works, for most people.

 

 

 

[BIG MAC]

If you employ someone to do your shopping?...like the profession 'Personal or professional shopper' for instance?

http://sales.monster.co.uk/6517_EN_p1.asp

While the word professional can also be taken to describe a person who has a Doctorate level degree....I surmise this will not encompass too many tea swilling builders.

 

[Clair]

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[Théière]

Too right Clair,

I hate being called a tea swilling builder [:)]

[BIG MAC]

I of course would apologise to builders tea swilling or otherwise for any slur which may have been implied upon their time honoured profession.

I would further apologise to the good burghers of the west country who may be assured that the sage advice offered here on their auspices was both representative and relevant.

I shall now return to the hell which is being an Insurance bloke with nairy an idea on air entrainment in mixes or cast in situ  concrete placement............