replacing insert

[vissac]

We have an old insert woodburner. I think that it needs replacin as it is 30 years or so old. It is built into a fake chimney brest. Has anyone experience with replacing or having replaced such a thing?

[woolybanana]

you may need to line the chimney

[vissac]

I think that the chimney is lined. What I am more concerned about is the physical practicaliy of removing the woodburner without wholescale rebuilding of the chimney brest. A friend recons that is is relatively easy but I was looking for confirmation.

[Théière]

Then get the friend to do do it whilst they still think its easy, Liners have a life span and the class 1 double lined (required) was pretty rare all those years ago.

You'll only get confirmation via the Catholic church [Www]

[Gemonimo]

[quote user="Théière"]

 

You'll only get confirmation via the Catholic church [Www]

[/quote]

or the Anglicans....[6]

[vissac]

OK, I am prepared to have it relined etc. I was also thinking of having it done professionaly but I am still concerned about the physical replacement of the insert. The chimney brest is made of some sort of plastered board with a wooden lintel above the fire. I assumed that it had been built around the insert and if so it might mean wrecking the entire thing and rebuilding. I really was hoping that someone had personal experience. Said friend is a bit of a know it all but I would't have even considered it had she not been so positive.

[Chancer]

So the know it all friend is female.

At the risk of offending 50% of the forum some of whom may well be accomplished bricoleuses.

All building jobs are simple when you are not the one expected to carry them out [6]

[Théière]

Glad you said it! brave Chancer [:D][:D][:D]

[vissac]

And thank you all for NOT answering the question. Why is it so often, when you pose a question, all you get is the "I wouldn't start from here" type of answer.

[Théière]

That's a very simple question to answer unlike your first.

There are far too many variables, was it originally fitted well/badly how do we know without a picture or anything to go by? is your proposed new insert the exact same physical size with the exact same flue position/dimensions. these are all very important to an easy replacement.

[vissac]

I understand what you are saying but as I do not know the make, let alone the model or external dimensions and fittings I cannot go down this route. What I asked originally was whether anyone one this forum had any experience of replacing an insert. It appears that there is nobody who has been there so I will have to brave the French artisan complete with sharp intake of breath, gallic shrug, shaking of head and probably that hand movement that indicates ,I believe, that this could be very costly. Ah well, thanks anyway

[Gluestick]

Welcome to the forum, vissac.

Now, you will find, with patience and courtesy, this is the premier forum on France and matters french: and I would venture to suggest the very best source of a wealth of practical - and free! -  technical assistance.

Collectively, we number significant experts on a wide range of areas and topics connected with buildings and services: people who day in and day out actually earn their daily bread as artisans: certified, insured and approved: and they are always ready willing and able to provide kind assistance to realistic enquiries.

An Insert is an insert is an insert: they vary only in puissance, (Power Output stated in Kwatts), type as in forced draft, natural draft etc and simply size: and where and how the flue debouches from the Insert.

Now, an Insert is heavy: because it is normally made from a chunk of cast iron, or fabricated, welded heavy gauge mild steel sheet: and will therefore need robust supports: so behind your false chimney breast, you will have some brickwork.

Ergo: have the thing pulled out: have the tubage examined: and after this ask for a Devis for replacement, once you have chosen your ideal new Insert.

The studwork etc can easily be replaced and redecorated since it is simple falsework.

Simple really, huh?

 

[Chancer]

[quote user="vissac"]What I asked originally was whether anyone one this forum had any experience of replacing an insert. It appears that there is nobody who has been there so I will have to brave the French artisan complete with sharp intake of breath, gallic shrug, shaking of head and probably that hand movement that indicates ,I believe, that this could be very costly. Ah well, thanks anyway
[/quote]

You could of course try asking your friend if she would mind doing a relatively easy job for you as a favour [;-)]

I have no experience myself of fitting an insert but I was recently doing some work in a house where a couple of old pros were fitting one, the studwork around the fire was steel montants, the placo was fire rated,they appeared to use some intumescent fibreglass to reinforce behind the placo joints but I think it was just red P40 isopon.

They did the job comfortably in a short day but of course they have learnt all the tricks along the way, having watched them I woud be confident to tackle one myself.

The biggest shock was when I sneaked a look at the facture, 6 or 7 thousand euro IIRC with  €2500 h.t. being for the installation, not bad for 2 guys working a short and relaxed day and some materials, but of course it was just before the end of the financial year and the the housholder was more than happy to pay double for something knowing that he would get half back from Les Impôts.

[mint]

But, Chancer, AFAIK, you don't get half back from les impôts for the labour or indeed the other materials like insulation, piping, etc.

You used to get half back minus the TVA on the insert itself but nowadays I think you only get back 40% on the cost of the appliance.

If anyone knows any different, please come on and tell Chancer.

Edit:  sorry, didn't make myself clear.  For the credit d'impôt, the property has to be your maison principale and I meant 40% of the cost less the TVA element.  Hope I've got that right and my message is clear as I'd hate to confuse anybody[:D]

[Sunday Driver]

It's 40% of the cost of the appliance including the TVA......[;-)]

 

[Gluestick]

[quote user="Chancer"]

[quote user="vissac"]What I asked originally was whether anyone one this forum had any experience of replacing an insert. It appears that there is nobody who has been there so I will have to brave the French artisan complete with sharp intake of breath, gallic shrug, shaking of head and probably that hand movement that indicates ,I believe, that this could be very costly. Ah well, thanks anyway
[/quote]

You could of course try asking your friend if she would mind doing a relatively easy job for you as a favour [;-)]

I have no experience myself of fitting an insert but I was recently doing some work in a house where a couple of old pros were fitting one, the studwork around the fire was steel montants, the placo was fire rated,they appeared to use some intumescent fibreglass to reinforce behind the placo joints but I think it was just red P40 isopon.

They did the job comfortably in a short day but of course they have learnt all the tricks along the way, having watched them I woud be confident to tackle one myself.

The biggest shock was when I sneaked a look at the facture, 6 or 7 thousand euro IIRC with  €2500 h.t. being for the installation, not bad for 2 guys working a short and relaxed day and some materials, but of course it was just before the end of the financial year and the the housholder was more than happy to pay double for something knowing that he would get half back from Les Impôts.

[/quote]

Interestingly, Castorama list a number of Inserts, ranging from a Foyer Insert of 14 Kw puissance @ € 545 to a Turbo Insert of 9 Kw puissance @  € 1.359 and Castorama are not the cheapest: their Pile 'Em High cousin Brico Depot is the place I would head.

See Here:

Replacement of the tubage with the latest twin-wall stuff would cost circa € 48/Metre.

I would purchase the Tubage in England however: for circa £18/M.

That facture, JRC....................truly frightening!

 

[Théière]

Crikey Gluey, where have you found twin walled for £18/metre or even 48 euros is good. Usually twice that price, spill the beans please [;-)]

[mint]

SD, I have examined the bill in minute detail and, it was rather less than half and I assumed that they took off the TVA?

But, what do I know, I was sooooo pleased to have anything at all that I was just happy and glad.....see, some of us are very easily pleased.

[mint]

[quote user="Sunday Driver"]

It's 40% of the cost of the appliance including the TVA......[;-)]

 

[/quote]

My previous reply is in response to SD's comment on here.  Sorry, don't know how to edit it using the quote![:-))]

[Gluestick]

[quote user="Théière"]Crikey Gluey, where have you found twin walled for £18/metre or even 48 euros is good. Usually twice that price, spill the beans please [;-)][/quote]

Et voila!

See Here:

OK: so I misquoted: and in truth, it's £18.50!

The € 48/M price was as quoted on the Casterama site.

I have to re-do mine this year: and I shall shamelessly source the tubage in Blighty: from a chum, who runs a woodburner installations company.

JR (Chancer) and I were recently discussing the current value in sourcing bricolage mats from UK: now when we bought our place 8 years ago or so, French prices (And the dreaded exchange rate!) were very much to our advantage: not any more it seems.

For the moment...................OECD have today issued a recession recovery statement and stated that UK will emerge to stronger growth than all the leading Eurozone economies; so take your own guess!

[:D]

[Théière]

Brill, saved to my favorites [:)]

Ta muchly

[devilsadvocate]

I believe the credit d'impots 2010 has been reduced for woodburners and is now 25% not 40%.

 

[Les]

[quote user="devilsadvocate"]

I believe the credit d'impots 2010 has been reduced for woodburners and is now 25% not 40%.

See here

 

[/quote]

[devilsadvocate]

Les (derf)

Rats! We rushed to get an insert replaced before the end of December in order to qualify for 40% rather than the "new" 25% rate. Now I can't find the link but I'll keep looking. Not that it matters for me, but it makes a difference to anyone this year!

Thank you for pointing that out.

DA

[powerdesal]

Imho, the extra money for the 904l version would be worth it.